Sweeping Sexual Assault Filed against the Univ. of Tennessee

CrimsonForce

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Why do male athletes have to force intercourse on a female for the intercourse to happen? You would think that athletes at major D1 programs wouldn't have a problem with achieving consensual intercourse with another female student..
 

Intl.Aperture

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Why do male athletes have to force intercourse on a female for the intercourse to happen? You would think that athletes at major D1 programs wouldn't have a problem with achieving consensual intercourse with another female student..
I think you are right, which I think gives credence to some of the ideas that when these athletes who hit home runs about 99% of the time hear the word "No" or maybe don't hear it explicitly, they get an attitude of entitlement or think the girl isn't serious because of their previous success. May just not be used to getting turned down. There are a ton of reasons.
 

Ole Man Dan

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I know it is bad, But some of the problem is the way the young woman on campus portray themselves.
Even if the girl acts like a slut or tramp, it's still rape if she doesn't consent. The she asked for it defense, based on how she is dressed, or nearly dressed doesn't keep it from being rape. If she is incapacitated by either alcohol or drugs, it's still rape... If free will is not involved it's still rape.

Many institutes have began using consent forms to be signed before sex...
IMO: Not worth the paper they are printed on if she changes her mind...
 
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Ole Man Dan

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I always wonder where these student athletes get the $$ to hire these big money lawyers.
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Universities supply the lawyers to attempt to shield themselves. Think FSU.
Unscrupulous 'Boosters' supply money by back channels to shield star players too.

In most cases the victim has no one funding her effort to obtain justice, just her family. Kind of a one sided proceeding.
 

B1GTide

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Umm... I'm more than positive that's never been okay.
Ethically, sure, but not judicially. The results in our judicial system say otherwise. You now go to jail for things that used to never even see a court room because the girl was blamed for her rape.
 

CrimsonForce

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Ethically, sure, but not judicially. The results in our judicial system say otherwise. You now go to jail for things that used to never even see a court room because the girl was blamed for her rape.
I agree with that to a point however I think the advent of technology (everybody having a cell phone) means that a lot of these encounters are recorded in some way or another - audio or video. These encounters are also discussed between the participants and victims via text message which is something that didn't happen before. Technology = evidence so a lot more of these cases are prosecuted or at least brought to light than ever before..
 

92tide

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Why do male athletes have to force intercourse on a female for the intercourse to happen? You would think that athletes at major D1 programs wouldn't have a problem with achieving consensual intercourse with another female student..
its usually about wielding power over someone else and not about not being able to get any.
 

RTR91

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SIAP, but I did not see these details in the OP link...

The "factual allegations" section of the lawsuit claims that Bowles had taken the alleged victim, a plaintiff in the lawsuit referred to as Jane Doe IV, to the hospital the night of her assault and supported her decision to report the incident to the authorities. It claims that the fifth plaintiff in the case, who is referred to as Jane Doe V and the only plaintiff who was not an alleged rape victim, witnessed several football players "jumping" Bowles on Nov. 17, 2014, the day after the alleged rape occurred.

The lawsuit says Jane Doe IV later understood that "athletic coaches were present" during that altercation. It also says Jane Doe IV learned that Bowles was assaulted a second time by the same players in a team facility.

The lawsuit claims that former linebacker Curt Maggitt "admitted" the second assault in interviews with police, but doesn't specify whether or not Maggitt was part of the assault. It says that Williams said in an interview with police on Nov. 26 that former defensive back Geraldo Orta "had told Williams that the football team had 'a hit' out on Drae Bowles."

The lawsuit claims that Orta told police that he felt "Bowles had betrayed the team and that where he (Orta) came from, people got shot for doing what Bowles did." It also said Orta told police that he had gotten "in Bowles' face" and said "some threatening things" at Smokey's Cafe, the athletic dining facility. It also said that Orta told police Maggitt confronted Bowles in the team locker room in an incident separate from the assault.

Jane Doe IV, also a Tennessee student athlete, learned of the first assault on Bowles while she was in a meeting with Tennessee executive senior associate athletics director Jon Gilbert, senior associate athletics director Mike Ward and her varsity team's head coach, the lawsuit said. She informed them of the assault and was told they would look into it. The lawsuit said Jane Doe IV was never told of any action taken against the players involved.
 

WMack4Bama

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Even if the girl acts like a slut or tramp, it's still rape if she doesn't consent. The she asked for it defense, based on how she is dressed, or nearly dressed doesn't keep it from being rape. If she is incapacitated by either alcohol or drugs, it's still rape... If free will is not involved it's still rape.

Many institutes have began using consent forms to be signed before sex...
IMO: Not worth the paper they are printed on if she changes her mind...
Reminds me of a Chappelle's Show skit

*Kobe!*
 

bamaslammer

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This is an ugly situation no matter how you look at it.

There is no question a girl has a right to wear what she wants but there is also no doubt that the closer she gets to being or looking naked the more distracting it is to men. For the vast majority of men this results in nothing more than a slightly longer glance. or perhaps even two glances. But for some very disturbed, possibly mentally ill men this is the one bit of attention that will lead to harm. A girl has to be wise, but even still there is no 100% way of avoiding trouble.

I would not sacrifice a young ladies life or future for success on the football field. I love winning but I also have a daughter in college and nothing on earth is worth taking that innocence. Saban has a daughter too so I have no doubt any Bama player accused of this would not see the field unless proven innocent.
 

mittman

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Blaming it on the victim never flies with me.

Of course dress and actions do invite it. That does not excuse ANYTHING. A good example: I was on a trip with some kids from my church youth group. A girl walked by in attire that was more than suggestive, left absolutely nothing to the imagination, and acted as flirtatious as possible. One of the young guys in the group bit a little and said something like, Wow look at that! Another looked at him and said she might as well have "lawsuit" on her butt instead of "saucy". She heard both and walked off in a huff. I'm not sure I have ever been prouder. :)

Even when temptation is there, there just isn't any excuse.

As for the University being held accountable and required to do investigations, I am not sure where I stand. Certainly they should not block or hinder investigations. Certainly they should cooperate with law enforcement in every way possible. But in the end it is a law enforcement action. Suspensions and expulsions based on legal status is about the end of their rope. I tend to think expectations of what a school can do are getting out of hand.

I will say this. I am very glad my daughters got through before the recent trends requiring them to live on campus, and not having the choice of being placed in a co-ed dorm. Both of them have told me some pretty sobering horror stories.
 

CrimsonEyeshade

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Mitt, I believe we agree on this: Even the OJ jury would acknowledge that there's a big difference between dressing to draw a guy's attention and inviting sexual assault.

Blaming it on the victim never flies with me.

Of course dress and actions do invite it. That does not excuse ANYTHING. A good example: I was on a trip with some kids from my church youth group. A girl walked by in attire that was more than suggestive, left absolutely nothing to the imagination, and acted as flirtatious as possible. One of the young guys in the group bit a little and said something like, Wow look at that! Another looked at him and said she might as well have "lawsuit" on her butt instead of "saucy". She heard both and walked off in a huff. I'm not sure I have ever been prouder. :)

Even when temptation is there, there just isn't any excuse.

As for the University being held accountable and required to do investigations, I am not sure where I stand. Certainly they should not block or hinder investigations. Certainly they should cooperate with law enforcement in every way possible. But in the end it is a law enforcement action. Suspensions and expulsions based on legal status is about the end of their rope. I tend to think expectations of what a school can do are getting out of hand.

I will say this. I am very glad my daughters got through before the recent trends requiring them to live on campus, and not having the choice of being placed in a co-ed dorm. Both of them have told me some pretty sobering horror stories.
 

Bamabuzzard

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Could it be in many of these sexual assault cases that both parties were drunk or under the influence enough that both consented in the moment but after the girl came to her senses and thought about what she did or was told what she did cries rape? In many of these cases it is very common that alcohol is involved and to think only one party was drinking and the other was completely sober is naive.
 
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B1GTide

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Could it be in many of these sexual assault cases that both parties were drunk or under the influence enough that both consented in the moment but after the girl came to her senses and thought about what she did or was told what she did cries rape? In many of these cases it is very common that alcohol is involved and to think only one party was drinking and the other was completely sober is naive.
True, but only the man will end up in prison. I preach this stuff to my boys. One night stands of any kind are dangerous. Add drugs or alcohol and you just might ruin the rest of your life.

The problem - they are teens and their minds don't process consequences properly. Add the raging hormones and you get this stuff.

Still, I remember times when I could have taken advantage of young women in my youth. Even when I was drunk, I managed to make the right decisions. I think that it is fair that I expect that of others. It might not be smart to rely on that behavior, but it is fair to expect it.
 

Bamabuzzard

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True, but only the man will end up in prison. I preach this stuff to my boys. One night stands of any kind are dangerous. Add drugs or alcohol and you just might ruin the rest of your life.

The problem - they are teens and their minds don't process consequences properly. Add the raging hormones and you get this stuff.

Still, I remember times when I could have taken advantage of young women in my youth. Even when I was drunk, I managed to make the right decisions. I think that it is fair that I expect that of others. It might not be smart to rely on that behavior, but it is fair to expect it.
I'm not excusing either party from decisions made under the influence. However, alcohol affects people different. Some people can get drunk and still have some form of reason and rationale to them. While others have zero reasoning skills when they get drunk. I played baseball with a guy in college that when sober you wouldn't even notice he was in the room he was so quiet and mild mannered. Put a few beers in him and he went from that to wanting to fight every person in the room. There wasn't much in between. I just believe when college kids (or HS kids) decide to bring alcohol into the situation it becomes a very very high risk situation that they should be educated about before ever entering the situation.

And from a girls standpoint (I've got a daughter) she should NEVER be taught to depend on the moral obligation of the other party to do the right thing. That is foolish and gives a false sense of security to the girl. Because let's be honest. Most HS and college girls want attention from the boys. It's human nature. Most girls just want the guys to pay attention to them, flirt with them and "like" them. Not take them to the back room during a party and have sex with them. (Disclaimer: In today's time I've been told by some younger folks that there are a lot of girls that do want that) But the lengths many of these girls go to in order to get the boys' attention is not viewed by the boys with the girls' intent. Those horn balls are automatically thinking "She wants me and wants me now." Add alcohol into the equation and the girls efforts get more extreme and the guy's delusions get more extreme. It just turns into a big mess.
 
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CrimsonNagus

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I have no idea of knowing this but I wonder how many of these instances had excessive alcohol involved or just alcohol period?
Doesn't matter according to Title IX. Even if both parties are equally drunk and consent is given but, the next day she decides she meant to say no, it is now considered rape. This is crazy wrong IMO, regret should not equal rape but, it does now under Title IX. I work at a local college and we have had employee training classes about Title IX and our role as employees, the above example was give in these meetings. If fact, they said that even if both were sober and consent was given, the woman could change her mind at any point afterwards, months even, and it is now considered rape. I'm not making this up, our Title IX coordinator told us this stuff. Change your mind months later and it is now rape... that's not right IMO.

Title IX is set up to kick out the accused, guilt or innocence does not matter. There is no burden of proof for colleges, reasonable doubt does not matter. The only thing that matters is that the school thinks an accused might have done it, that's the only conclusion that must be reached and that student is gone. This is just stupid IMO, Title IX leaves very little protection for the accused.

Also according to those meetings, if we as employees witness a sexual assault, or any assault, on campus we are not suppose to call the police but, instead call the Title IX coordinator. I asked if we should also call law enforcement and was told no, the school would determine if that was necessary. After these meetings I'm convinced that Title IX is not about protecting students but protecting schools from lawsuits.

It really bothers me how guilt is assumed and that schools have no burden proof that must be achieved. Don't get me wrong, I think rapists should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law but, the fact that regret can now equal rape is very troubling.
 
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