Convention of States

Tidewater

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Tennessee Becomes 5th State to Pass Resolution Calling For Article V Convention


"Besides Tennessee, Alabama, Alaska, Florida and Georgia have formally adopted Article V resolutions.

They have also been introduced in 33 other state legislatures this year – including the presidential battleground state of South Carolina."

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/bar...s-5th-state-pass-resolution-calling-article-v
When I first heard about this idea, my thought was, "Okay, what is the text of the call for a convention." Some quick research showed me that lots of states over the last 230 years have called for an Article V convention on one subject or another, but if California calls for an Article V convention to adopt an amendment calling for universal healthcare and Alabama calls for one to propose an amendment to restrict the use imminent domain, I could easily see Congress saying, "These are two different calls for a convention, so until 34 states adopt the same resolution, we can ignore these." I wanted to see what the text was. Now, advocates have drafted uniform verbiage and resolutions using that verbiage are working their way through state legislatures. Once 34 adopt, Congress has no choice but to pick the meeting place and time.
In my career, I have lost my temper twice. I mean really hopping mad, "using language my grandmother would not approve of" mad. Both times it was because the person I was dealing with was being insubordinate. Insubordination drives me crazy.
The Federal government is grossly and repeatedly insubordinate, and with impunity. My hope is that the general government learns to subordinate itself to its sovereigns (the peoples of the several states) and that this process teaches the general government and its current officeholders that the are agents, not masters, of the Constitution.
 
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Gr8hope

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Absolutely Tidewater, the governing bodies are our representatives, not our rulers.
 

Tidewater

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Absolutely Tidewater, the governing bodies are our representatives, not our rulers.
Incidentally, this approach (draft uniform verbiage and share across the United States) was what George Mason and the Anti-Federalists did in 1787-1790. The end result was the Bill of Rights.
Not too shabby.
 

Tidewater

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I like you guys and your optimism about the American people, but you are far more likely to get some milquetoast, socialist BS like, "Everyone has a right to education/healthcare/a chicken in every pot" than an amendment requiring actual fiscal restraint. The founding generation, this ain't.
Well, this process is more about the state legislatures which will be the locus of power and activity. State legislatures call for a convention. The state legislature select the delegates (each state having one vote in the Convention), the state legislatures approve or decline the amendments that come out of the process. The "people" are not directly involved in this process. The state legislatures are not great, but they are not the power-hungry megalomaniacs one finds in DC and even if they were as megalomaniacal as DC-ites, they would be decentralizing power to 50 state capitals, meaning 1/50th of the power that used to be in DC.
The current trajectory in Washington is unbelievably dangerous and unsustainable.
 

deliveryman35

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An Article V Convention is simply another way to get an amendment the US Constitution passed - not the same thing as a Constitutional Convention (which is what I assume you're thinking). All 34+ states would have to submit a similarly worded amendment.
Correct. A convention of the states and a constitutional convention are two, completely different things.
 

bamacon

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I like you guys and your optimism about the American people, but you are far more likely to get some milquetoast, socialist BS like, "Everyone has a right to education/healthcare/a chicken in every pot" than an amendment requiring actual fiscal restraint. The founding generation, this ain't.
Sorry BiB, this is just incorrect. They can try their own wacko version of COS but all the amendments would be agreed to before anything started. This gives the power back to the states that the 17th amendment stole from them. They can give the state delegations very specific parameters to operate within. My big worry is this ques. "Do I really want the AL state legislature making decisions on my behalf?" That place has some genuinely stoopid people in it.


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Tidewater

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Sorry BiB, this is just incorrect. They can try their own wacko version of COS but all the amendments would be agreed to before anything started. This gives the power back to the states that the 17th amendment stole from them. They can give the state delegations very specific parameters to operate within. My big worry is this ques. "Do I really want the AL state legislature making decisions on my behalf?" That place has some genuinely stoopid people in it.
True enough, but the virtue of this approach is that it takes out of Federal hands entirely the decision on how much power the Federal government should have. This was supposed to be the central tenet of the Progressives, letting disinterested parties decide matters because, being disinterested, their decisions would be better.
Whenever an agency of the Federal government (Congress, President, judiciary) has been asked whether this or that power is a legitimate Federal power, almost always (there are exceptions), the Federal agency has discovered, "Shazam! It turns out I do have the power to do what I want to do!"
This will remove that conflict of interest from Federal hands.
 

Gr8hope

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I guess my biggest problem with all this is that it plays into the lie that we are being ruled from a far by politicians that don't care what the people want. We want to tell ourselves that they are the real problem, and that if only the people had their say everything would be better. And my experience is it's just not true. Things don't get done in Washington because the vast majority of people don't want them to get done. There are some real patriots on this board, and I'm not attacking you guys. But you are in such a minority. Most people want the gravy train to stop--as long as it doesn't stop for them.
The people of America have no gravy train, it has been stolen by politicians and crony donors. Some are appeased by the pittances promised to them and continue to vote to be controlled. A few others are bought off by money in the form of bailouts, grants, or subsidies that are used to enrich them so they can turn around and return potions to the politicians who made their windfalls possible. Political correctness is used to divide factions and give cover to the problems caused by government. The citizens who pay attention are angry and that is why this election cycle is not being controlled by the usual parties who decide who will be the nominees. The media has overstepped and their bias has been exposed so their talking points from the elites are being largely ignored. The calls for the voice of the people to be heard and government to reigned in are not over imagined burdens placed on them by Washington. Washington is the problem, Washington has convinced the takers they will provide them with a gravy train. It cannot be sustained.
 

bamacon

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Totally agree on your last point. What's worse, Alabama's state legislature is about like every other state legislature.

And Barack Obama won 27 states in the last election. At best, it's a dream to think you could get enough states to agree on the specific issues you want. At worst, they'd show up to do one thing and end up doing another. You can say, "Oh, this is different from a constitutional convention." But once it's started, then it will invariable spin out of control. A noted history professor, Forrest McDonald, once said that the whole reason we've never had an Article V convention was the recognition that it could not be contained. And I think he was right.

That's just it. It CANNOT "spin out of control". We've never had Article V because it has taken the federal govt. this long to where it becomes necessary (all predicted by the founders which is why they put it in in the 1st place). "Good intentions...." and all that stuff is masked by a govt. that is so massive it can't respond to the wishes of the people. The bureaucracy is so insane that I don't think it physically can. All it seems to do is grow and grow and grow. Art. V recognizes that and instead of putting up with an Obama and his pen/phone.exec. orders and czars that there is one way around this obstacle and it has the plus side of being Constitutional. It is also designed to prevent the only other way mentioned in the Declaration and when you mention it you get put on a watchlist :)
 

Tidewater

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Things don't get done in Washington because the vast majority of people don't want them to get done.
Guilty.
I do not want things to get done in Washington. I want less things to get done in Washington.
If I was going to select a group of people I wanted to "get things done" for me, one of the last places I would look would be the people in Washington.
 

Tidewater

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It is also designed to prevent the only other way mentioned in the Declaration and when you mention it you get put on a watchlist :)
I'd just like to say hello to all the Federal law enforcement community looking in and ask that they spell my name correctly when they write it down.
 

Tidewater

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The calls for the voice of the people to be heard and government to reigned in are not over imagined burdens placed on them by Washington. Washington is the problem, Washington has convinced the takers they will provide them with a gravy train. It cannot be sustained.
Yep, if we had a $19 trillion cash assets and were running $500 billion/year in surpluses, this might be a different deal.
The current trajectory is a disaster waiting to happen.
We are all on the Titanic and that iceberg ain't gonna move.
 

skrayper77

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I like you guys and your optimism about the American people, but you are far more likely to get some milquetoast, socialist BS like, "Everyone has a right to education/healthcare/a chicken in every pot" than an amendment requiring actual fiscal restraint. The founding generation, this ain't.
...

Everyone IS given access to an education - that's called public schooling.

I am assuming you mean college education? If so, I don't think everyone has a "right" to it, but I do believe it has gotten incredibly out of hand. Same with healthcare - god forbid you get a serious illness or injury while being laidoff and actively looking for a job.

No, I don't think socializing it is the answer, but neither is putting on a blindfold and assuming everything's hunky-dory.
 

crimsonaudio

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I'd just like to say hello to all the Federal law enforcement community looking in and ask that they spell my name correctly when they write it down.
I've often wondered what sort of under-the-hood security some of the forum DBs have. With a name like yours, without direct access to the user DB, they'd have a tough time finding you.

And yah, I get that the NSA and company have some significant minds and tools on staff, but there are security layers in place they they cannot crack within a reasonable amount of time.
 

mittman

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I've often wondered what sort of under-the-hood security some of the forum DBs have. With a name like yours, without direct access to the user DB, they'd have a tough time finding you.

And yah, I get that the NSA and company have some significant minds and tools on staff, but there are security layers in place they they cannot crack within a reasonable amount of time.
Meh

Forget hacking the database. Cross reference all the information in his posts and they'll figure out who he is. NYBF might be difficult, Tidewater shouldn't be. :)
 

Tidewater

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You don't have a constitutional right to education, at any level. If the state provides education, you have a right to have it provided equally, but that's it.
I think Professor Obama addressed this on NPR. He (mis)conceptualizes rights as "things the government is supposed to give you free," and finds the Founders wanting.
I believe rights are things the government cannot prevent you from getting on your own.
You have a right to health care insofar as the government cannot stop you from getting it. Obama's misconception is obvious if one applies his yardstick to free speech rights. Does anyone expect the government to give you something to say? Does anybody believe the 2nd amendment means the government has to give you a gun?
 

Tidewater

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I am assuming you mean college education? If so, I don't think everyone has a "right" to it, but I do believe it has gotten incredibly out of hand.
I believe the cost of a college education has risen astronomically, and I'd bet if you tracked the rise in tuition/college costs and the amount of Federal money going to college loans, I'd bet there is a direct (and, I would argue, causal) relationship between the two.
 
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