Will Texas let the Big 12 expand?

TideMan09 said:

That's why Texas A&M earned my respect when they left Texas & The Big 12 in the dust never looking back on their way to The SEC..Folks kept saying that The Aggie's didn't have it in them to leave their supposed Big Brother behind by coming to the SEC. welp, they did have it in them by giving Texas the proverbial middle finger & became their own school away for the dumpster fire that the Big 12 has become..

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aTm had it in them all the way back to at least 1994. They were coming to the SEC then, but the State of Texas built them a $36M arena to keep them together. This is from my post (#17) above:

"A deal was worked out where all four schools would go together to the Big 12. A&M was convinced not to pursue SEC membership (LSU was prepared to sponsor the Aggies) in return for Bullock finding the votes to approve the construction of Reed Arena."

If I were Texas, and I was faced with a Big 12 future of potentially being pressured/cajoled out of the LHN AND with the addition of some combination of Cincinnati, Memphis, and/or BYU, I would be tempted to round up Oklahoma, Okie State, and Texas Tech and head west into a Pac 16. Essentially the same deal they tried to pull a few years back before Texas A&M pulled the rug out from under them (and before Pac added Utah, reducing the need to 4 teams to get to 16). The money would have to be better (assuming that there's no logical future for LHN), the conference composition would be MUCH more compelling (I don't think Cincy, Memphis, or BYU add much more than numbers and somewhat respectable teams), and the Pac gets a strong Texas foothold and an inventory of kickoffs in the Central Time Zone.

Another option for Texas would be pairing up with Kansas and heading to the Big 10 (the Big 10 would probably love to add Texas, and Kansas makes the most sense--academically for the Big 10 and geographically--to get to 16), but the politics would be tougher and, with the grant of rights, it is probably easier to just blow up the Big 12 entirely with four departures than having your biggest fish +1 leaving the others in a diminished league. The third option would be the ACC, but there's no natural partner to join Texas to get them to 16 unless Notre Dame would be ready to fully join in football. And there may not be enough money in the free world to sweeten the pot enough to make both Texas and Notre Dame whole in exchange for their TV deals.

My point is that if the Big 12 is either inevitably headed toward adding downmarket programs AND going to force Texas the relinquish the LHN or face Oklahoma (and probably Okie State) heading for the exit or making their life miserable, then life outside the Big 12 has to look better than inside it by comparison. To me, the Pac 12 deal would look best if they could swing it. With the Pac at 16, it would be fascinating to the see if any of other leagues followed the jump to 16 and if the Big 12 leftovers could worm their way into another Power Five league or if they all wound up reconstituting with the upper-tier AAC schools.

Crimson1967 said:

Oklahoma would be a better fit, both culturally and athletically in the Big Ten.

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I agree. Other than politically, Oklahoma has much more in common with the Midwest than the Deep South. Also there is the issue with Okie State.

ALA2262 said:

Turns out that State Senator David Sibley got the ball rolling and LT Governor Bob Bullock was the driving force that enabled Baylor to be included in the Big 12.


"In Texas, word leaked out that UT & Texas A&M were close to leaving the SWC; UT to the Pac-10[SUP][17][/SUP] or Big Eight and eventually Texas A&M to the SEC. Texas state senator David Sibley, a Baylor alumnus and member of the very powerful Senate Finance Committee, approached UT Chancellor Bill Cunningham and asked him pointedly whether UT planned to leave the SWC on its own for the Big Eight. Cunningham tried to change the subject. Ultimately he did not deny it.[SUP][8][/SUP]
Sibley approached LT Governor Bob Bullock, a Texas Tech and Baylor alumnus. Texas state senator John Montford of Lubbock was equally motivated to protect Texas Tech's path to the Big 12. The trio put together a group of legislators who worked to threaten Texas and Texas A&M's access to the state of Texas's Permanent University Fund.[SUP][8][/SUP]
Bullock called together a meeting of supportive legislators as well as UT's and Texas A&M's leaders on February 20, 1994.[SUP][18][/SUP] UT Chancellor William Cunningham admitted that Texas planned to join the Big Eight[SUP][8][/SUP] and A&M's leadership still targeted the SEC.[SUP][8][/SUP]
A deal was worked out where all four schools would go together to the Big 12. A&M was convinced not to pursue SEC membership (LSU was prepared to sponsor the Aggies) in return for Bullock finding the votes to approve the construction of Reed Arena. Baylor and Texas Tech would join the Aggies in coming with UT into the new version of the Big Eight.[SUP][8][/SUP]
Texas's Governor Ann Richards, a Baylor and UT alumna, is often credited with getting Baylor included, but, was absent from the February 20 meeting[SUP][8][/SUP] and no investigative reports confirm her active involvement. The Baylor Report claimed that she presented herself as neutral. Richards' former Chief of Staff, John Fainter, is on record saying "She just was not involved to any great degree in working that out...I'd have to say she was informed, but she wasn't pounding the table or anything like that." Richards was aware of the public perception of her involvement and the thought amused her.[SUP][19][/SUP])"

UT officials informed the Big Eight leadership that the Austin school was now receptive to an invitation and the Big Eight issued invitations to Texas, Texas A&M, Baylor, and Texas Tech. All four schools quickly accepted.[SUP][17][/SUP]
At the time of the deal, Texas politicians denied any coercion took place. Over the years, investigative reporters challenged that notion. The idea that Bullock and the state government coerced A&M to join and forced UT to take Tech and Baylor to the Big 12 has constantly been downplayed by Cunningham,[SUP][19][/SUP] but former UT president Robert Berdahl claimed that UT was threatened. “As I recall, it wasn't a very veiled threat to cut budgets if Tech was left behind.”[SUP][8][/SUP]
Baylor President Herb Reynolds thanked Bullock and the other politicians for helping Baylor get into the conference. Despite Baylor's strong credentials, clearly Reynolds felt the politicians played a key role in getting the Bears and Texas Tech into the new conference.[SUP][20][/SUP] The minutes of the February 23, 1994 meeting of the Baylor Board of Regents where the Big 12's invitation was accepted state, "Baylor University owes a strong debt of gratitude to Lt. Governor Bob Bullock, Senator David Sibley, Senator John Montford, Representative Rob Junell, and other legislators for their invaluable assistance during the deliberations leading to the acceptance of the invitations."[SUP][21]"

[/SUP]​History of the Big 12 Conference - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Ever heard of plausible deniability?

Just because Ann Richards wasn't as stupid as Bill Clements (the governor who helped get SMU the death penalty) doesn't mean she wasn't every bit as arm-twisting and involved as necessary. Both Bullock AND Richards were Baylor grads and trying to keep the school afloat in Texas football dollars.

selmaborntidefan said:

Ever heard of plausible deniability?

Just because Ann Richards wasn't as stupid as Bill Clements (the governor who helped get SMU the death penalty) doesn't mean she wasn't every bit as arm-twisting and involved as necessary. Both Bullock AND Richards were Baylor grads and trying to keep the school afloat in Texas football dollars.

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I suspected as much. My post was to enlighten the forum as to what went on moreso than to dispute Richards' involvement.

Redwood Forrest said:

Suppose Texas went the ND route and prostituted themselves to the ACC. They could keep the LHN and only play five ACC games each year. I don't know why that would not work. Suppose they did the same with the PAC12 or B1G?

They ACC would be a winner. Texas would not lose face, being compared to Notre Dame.

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That means they'd be a full member in all sports but football. It would probably work. Wouldn't shock me at all and I think the ACC would do it in a heartbeat. I think the ACC is the only power 5 league that would accept such an arrangement though.

selmaborntidefan said:

Ever heard of plausible deniability?

Just because Ann Richards wasn't as stupid as Bill Clements (the governor who helped get SMU the death penalty) doesn't mean she wasn't every bit as arm-twisting and involved as necessary. Both Bullock AND Richards were Baylor grads and trying to keep the school afloat in Texas football dollars.

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100% correct.... She knew she had a tough re-election fight and no chance to win of she got involved publicly. She sure as heck wasn't going to get caught looking the fool like Clements.

WylieTexasTider said:

100% correct.... She knew she had a tough re-election fight and no chance to win. She sure as heck wasn't going to get caught looking the fool like Clements.

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FIFY!

Welcome to Tejas, y'all!

Thing is, for the remainder of that contract Texas has guaranteed revenue from the LHN, even if no one watches. The LHN is a failure for ESPN, but not for Texas. Only when that contract is near an end would Texas likely be inclined to accept something else, because ESPN is not going to pay as much for the LHN (if anything) when it is time to renew.

Redwood Forrest said:

Oklahoma State coach Mike Gundy insinuated that Texas could leave the Big 12, leaving a doomsday scenario for the Big 12. From CBS Sports:

"If Texas doesn't [fold LHN] in X number of years, they're going to be in the Pac-12 or SEC," Gundy said. "If that's what they want, keep riding this horse. If you don't want that, you better make some changes or it's going to happen whether you like it or not."

One potential money maker is a conference network, but due to Texas' Longhorn Network, a conference-wide network doesn't look like a possibility. So, Gundy has an idea: get rid of the Longhorn Network, which he calls "a failure."

"If we don't eliminate the Longhorn Network and create our own network, they're going to continue to have issues with this league," Gundy said as the Cowboys returned from spring break to continue spring practice.

He continued: "You don't have a Big 12 Network; you have a network within the league that people consider a failure."


http://www.sbnation.com/college-foo...homa-state-mike-gundy-big-12-longhorn-network

It appears the B12 wants Texas to roll the LHN over into a Big 12 Network. I would think Texas would be willing to do that since it is losing a ton of money for ESPN. Texas is losing ESPN good will if it had any. I would do it. I think the B12 will do it anyway 'cause they will have the Texas B12 road games to show.

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To me, what Gundy says makes no sense. Neither the SEC or the Pac 12 would allow Texas to the bring the LHN into their leagues. Never in a million years. And, what, is the Big 12 suddenly going to kick Texas out if they don't fold it? Or is Gundy insinuating that 4 or so teams might leave and cause the Big 12 to go belly up?

Redwood Forrest said:

I know schools are allowed the be football only members, like N Mexico State and Idaho, who play all other sports in the WAC and Big Sky. I assume Texas would be an independent in other sports as well.

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That wouldn't really work. There is a reason Notre Dame parks all the rest of its sports in the ACC (hockey is in the Big Ten). They would lose money big time trying to be an Independent in all other sports and filling out schedules would be a nightmare. It works for football, but only because they can park the rest of the sports elsewhere. This is why Notre Dame was almost forced to join a conference in football when the Big East began to fold as a power conference entity. But the ACC stepped up to the plate for them.

deliveryman35 said:

I agree. Other than politically, Oklahoma has much more in common with the Midwest than the Deep South. Also there is the issue with Okie State.

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The Deep South? You mean like Missouri? Didn't know you had to be located in the Deep South to be an SEC member. Oklahoma is a transitional State with elements of the South, Midwest and Southwest, but there are areas in the eastern part of the State that will remind you a lot more of Alabama than of Iowa, Nebraska or Indiana. Norman sits south of five current SEC schools, and is contiguous with three SEC states. Oklahoma is more like the South than the Midwest geographically, culturally, climatically and politically. The thought of possible B1G membership sickens me.
I don't know what OU President David Boren's end game is. I do know that in it's present form, he believes the Big XII is a diminished conference, and that I seriously doubt that OU will be a part of it, if what he prescribes to fix it is not followed. For me, any concerns about conference stability, money, leadership and prestige vanishes in joining the SEC. That trip in 2003 to Tuscaloosa showed me what SEC passion and great fans are all about. Been a Bama and SEC fan ever since. We'll learn more about this Summer at the Big XII meetings.
Roll Tide Roll.

champions77 said:

The Deep South? You mean like Missouri? Didn't know you had to be located in the Deep South to be an SEC member. Oklahoma is a transitional State with elements of the South, Midwest and Southwest, but there are areas in the eastern part of the State that will remind you a lot more of Alabama than of Iowa, Nebraska or Indiana. Norman sits south of five current SEC schools, and is contiguous with three SEC states. Oklahoma is more like the South than the Midwest geographically, culturally, climatically and politically. The thought of possible B1G membership sickens me.
I don't know what OU President David Boren's end game is. I do know that in it's present form, he believes the Big XII is a diminished conference, and that I seriously doubt that OU will be a part of it, if what he prescribes to fix it is not followed. For me, any concerns about conference stability, money, leadership and prestige vanishes in joining the SEC. That trip in 2003 to Tuscaloosa showed me what SEC passion and great fans are all about. Been a Bama and SEC fan ever since. We'll learn more about this Summer at the Big XII meetings.
Roll Tide Roll.

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FWIW, I'd gladly welcome the Sooners to the SEC if we could kick out Mizzu.

Aggies made more sense, but I've never understood Mizzu.

BamaMoon said:

FWIW, I'd gladly welcome the Sooners to the SEC if we could kick out Mizzu.

Aggies made more sense, but I've never understood Mizzu.

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Mizzou's wish list was the B1G, never was the SEC. After all the saber rattling by Mizzou, the B1G took Nebraska instead.

champions77 said:

The Deep South? You mean like Missouri? Didn't know you had to be located in the Deep South to be an SEC member. Oklahoma is a transitional State with elements of the South, Midwest and Southwest, but there are areas in the eastern part of the State that will remind you a lot more of Alabama than of Iowa, Nebraska or Indiana. Norman sits south of five current SEC schools, and is contiguous with three SEC states. Oklahoma is more like the South than the Midwest geographically, culturally, climatically and politically. The thought of possible B1G membership sickens me.
I don't know what OU President David Boren's end game is. I do know that in it's present form, he believes the Big XII is a diminished conference, and that I seriously doubt that OU will be a part of it, if what he prescribes to fix it is not followed. For me, any concerns about conference stability, money, leadership and prestige vanishes in joining the SEC. That trip in 2003 to Tuscaloosa showed me what SEC passion and great fans are all about. Been a Bama and SEC fan ever since. We'll learn more about this Summer at the Big XII meetings.
Roll Tide Roll.

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The rub with OU is what to do with Oklahoma State. OSU has plenty of political clout within the state, and both OU and OSU have stated their intent to remain together in terms of conference. A breakup would be messy for sure.

I can't see the Big 10 taking an OU-OSU package deal, and I'm not sure the SEC would want it, either. I would assume the Pac 12 would be receptive to both (they wanted them in a package deal with Texas, Texas Tech, and A&M a few years ago) because of the inventory of Central Time Zone games they would add, plus the geographic proximity of the two would help in terms of travel costs.