Hugh Freeze explains how to beat Nick Saban in recruiting

B1GTide said:

I also agree with selma, but not totally. It is important to note that the surge in Ole Miss recruiting "prowess" predated their win 2 seasons ago, as did the national suspicion about exactly how they were reeling in so many high level recruits at the 11th hour - recruits who had not listed any interest in Ole Miss until they suddenly committed. Suspicions surrounding Ole Miss recruiting have nothing to do with their 2 wins on the field - they stem from the nature of their wins off the field.

That said, I hate the NCAA far more than any college football program.

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This is true, but please note that I was responding to the article that was ONLY written BECAUSE they have beaten us the last two years on the field. That article is from al.com and notes:

His recruiting prowess has helped Ole Miss to back-to-back premier bowl games (Peach and Sugar) and wins over Alabama in the last two seasons.

Without those wins - heck, if they just lose to us last fall - this article isn't even written. That's the SMALLER context to which I was responding.

The LARGER context is that as RTR91 correctly points out, the allegations have been around since March 2013 (I'll go you a little better - Ole Miss landed a five-star that flopped in 2012 and some of the whispers began then).

But does anyone carping have something called EVIDENCE????

I'm not impressed with allegations since we have more made against us than anyone, usually from that school in West GA. And please note the entire narrative comes from Blue Blood arrogance - "well, we know nobody would EVER flip from Georgia or Clemson to Ole Miss THEREFORE they MUST have been paid money." That doesn't mean I'm naive and don't have suspicions of my own - but I reiterate that this is only a story here because Ole Miss is winning.

If Ole Miss was 2-10 despite these players they got.....nobody would even care.

We can all draw up a narrative. The same folks from other schools that laughed when Lane Kiffin became our OC NOW insist he brought USC-style cheating to Alabama. That's why my point is this whole thing is too easy - you get beat, just whine that the game was rigged and unfair.

And I reiterate the main point - dollar bills don't make tackles, throws, or blocks.

Freeze seems to have mastered the art of the top-heavy recruiting class...a few blue-chippers up top to dazzle the rankings (landed by hook, crook, or otherwise), then Conference USA-level talent down the line. No doubt, Ole Miss "sells out" (maybe literally) to land a few 5-stars, but perhaps to the detriment of the balance of their recruiting classes.

The problem with that approach is that they will always lack depth, and be susceptible to injuries, chemistry problems, character issues, early defections, etc., without the depth to keep things rolling. That's why they've had stretches over the past two seasons when they simply ran out of gas. You may be able to beat Alabama twice in a row that way, but you'll never win the big stuff.

selmaborntidefan said:

This is true, but please note that I was responding to the article that was ONLY written BECAUSE they have beaten us the last two years on the field. That article is from al.com and notes:

His recruiting prowess has helped Ole Miss to back-to-back premier bowl games (Peach and Sugar) and wins over Alabama in the last two seasons.

Without those wins - heck, if they just lose to us last fall - this article isn't even written. That's the SMALLER context to which I was responding.

The LARGER context is that as RTR91 correctly points out, the allegations have been around since March 2013 (I'll go you a little better - Ole Miss landed a five-star that flopped in 2012 and some of the whispers began then).

But does anyone carping have something called EVIDENCE????

I'm not impressed with allegations since we have more made against us than anyone, usually from that school in West GA. And please note the entire narrative comes from Blue Blood arrogance - "well, we know nobody would EVER flip from Georgia or Clemson to Ole Miss THEREFORE they MUST have been paid money." That doesn't mean I'm naive and don't have suspicions of my own - but I reiterate that this is only a story here because Ole Miss is winning.

If Ole Miss was 2-10 despite these players they got.....nobody would even care.

We can all draw up a narrative. The same folks from other schools that laughed when Lane Kiffin became our OC NOW insist he brought USC-style cheating to Alabama. That's why my point is this whole thing is too easy - you get beat, just whine that the game was rigged and unfair.

And I reiterate the main point - dollar bills don't make tackles, throws, or blocks.

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No, I don't have hard rock evidence. This is a post I made back in 2014 with a sequence of events for the 2013 class, though.

selmaborntidefan said:

But does anyone carping have something called EVIDENCE????

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There's a lot of circumstantial evidence, but beyond that yes there are very real allegations made by the NCAA regarding Ole Miss and rule breaking. They might not be able to nail them on some things, but there's no question at all that Ole Miss has been caught breaking rules and that players had their amateurism violated. This is no longer up for debate. Other than that, there was always a lot of circumstantial evidence. Treadwell being one of the most glaringly bogus additions, there simply was no inkling of his heading there until the buzz around Ole Miss buying recruits started to heat up, and then low and behold he suddenly developed an interest in Ole Miss. Let's put this in context, that was the greatest Ole Miss recruiting class, ever. It's no different than when Barry Bonds showed up with massive muscles, back acne, and started hitting a lot more home runs. Did we have any rock solid evidence? Nope, but there was talk, people who took a hard look knew what was going on.

selmaborntidefan said:

nobody would even care.

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I would, but I always care about recruiting. I don't like to see blatant cheating, blatant buying players and that is what this has all the appearances of.

In the broader context though, here's the real reason this gets under my skin. I think we all know that a lot of rules are broken all the time. It happens. But is it cheating? Is it really cheating when someone has contact with an agent? Were the textbooks that big a deal? Was a signature on a napkin that big a deal? Nope, I never thought so just like I thought the idea of a guy eating at a cookout, or going on a boat ride, or something wasn't a big deal.

What we are talking about going on at Ole Miss is players who had no interest in Ole Miss, in some cases never visited, never had any indication they wanted to go there, suddenly developing a keen interest. We're talking about going into Big 10 country, and getting their best players. We're talking about going into Big 12 country and getting their best player. And we're not talking about Florida, Alabama, or LSU doing it. We're talking about the hasn't won an SEC titles in decades, loves the rebel flag, has a tiny stadium, Ole Miss doing it. This is as simple as applying Occam's razor.

It's not about me being jealous they beat Alabama, it's about them outright buying players who had no interest in going otherwise. It is bad for the SEC in so many ways and it really needs to stop. Hugh's explanation in and of itself makes it all the more naked. What would you have us believe? That Hugh really is outworking Nick Saban on the recruiting trail? Is that what we're supposed to buy to understand what's happening here? Because that's a heck of a lot of bull to have to believe.

But with no trophy at the end of the walk.

Catfish said:

Without achievement? But, they have a WALK OF CHAMPIONS!

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crimsonaudio said:

It's actually just a few pavers from Home Depot...

:biggrin2:

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Yeah, but they're CHAMPIONSHIP-QUALITY pavers!

Hugh bragging about beating Nick Saban in recruiting is like him bragging about Ole Miss not having any coaching turnover...

RTR91 said:

Hugh bragging about beating Nick Saban in recruiting is like him bragging about Ole Miss not having any coaching turnover...

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LOL. This is almost as bad as the Penn State recruiting poster that said "No talent required." Does Hugh realize that coordinators mostly leave schools for promotions? IOW, nobody has wanted to hire any of the Ole Miss coordinators because nobody thinks they can handle a bigger job..

I am so tired of hearing the phrase "Family" I could puke. First auburn, the Clemson and now OM, can't any of these places come up with something better than family. Noticed Clemson uses "all in" as one of their slogans, another stupid statement. Other phrases I simply cannot stand: "I/we/they have your back". "He's a players coach". I am sure there are others just can't think of them right now, hearing that crap puts me in a very bad mood.

GrayTide said:

I am so tired of hearing the phrase "Family" I could puke. First auburn, the Clemson and now OM, can't any of these places come up with something better than family. Noticed Clemson uses "all in" as one of their slogans, another stupid statement. Other phrases I simply cannot stand: "I/we/they have your back". "He's a players coach". I am sure there are others just can't think of them right now, hearing that crap puts me in a very bad mood.

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I am not in disagreement, but the family thing really sells to young people. They are leaving high school and moving on into the world. The future can be pretty scary, even for these guys. Having a group of people that will be with you as you face that future takes away some of that trepidation.

Some have enough confidence to take on the challenge of an Alabama program, where your future starts the day that you arrive on campus, and where each person has immediate expectations placed on them.

The reality - all any of these schools offer is an opportunity to become a part of a community larger than yourself, but none will be family. There is no unconditional love to be found. Some schools are just more honest about that.

B1GTide said:

I am not in disagreement, but the family thing really sells to young people. They are leaving high school and moving on into the world. The future can be pretty scary, even for these guys. Having a group of people that will be with you as you face that future takes away some of that trepidation.

Some have enough confidence to take on the challenge of an Alabama program, where your future starts the day that you arrive on campus, and where each person has immediate expectations placed on them.

The reality - all any of these schools offer is an opportunity to become a part of a community larger than yourself, but none will be family. There is no unconditional love to be found. Some schools are just more honest about that.

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To add to that, the reality is that many of these kids may have also not had the best home life or may have a family that is fractured and disjointed. So the promise of "Family" especially a family full of people who love and understand football as much as they do, sounds promising.

If recruitment posters were honest, most kids wouldn't choose that school.

"We Are Family. By that we mean, our love is conditional and is based completely on the level of your performance. If you do well, we will always have your back. If you don't, we will pretty much ignore you and abandon you to your own devices because we don't spend 30 million dollars on our football program to lose games. We are a family, as long as you earn the scholarship money we are spending on you."

Bama's technique flies into the wind. "Do you think you are special player? Come prove it against every other special from across the nation. If you don't think you can handle that, by all means go somewhere else. You'll still have to come prove it."

Just an fyi, but I've read SEVERAL articles from recruits the last few days who have said they loved the "family" feel at Alabama.

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Matt0424 said:

Just an fyi, but I've read SEVERAL articles from recruits the last few days who have said they loved the "family" feel at Alabama.

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Me too. I think all programs sell family. Some publically sell it a lot more than others. Our public pitch is what Buzzard said in his post. Parents and players are going to want a family feel and we offer that also.

Matt0424 said:

Just an fyi, but I've read SEVERAL articles from recruits the last few days who have said they loved the "family" feel at Alabama.

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I noticed that too, and we don`t go out of our way to "promote" that either. Kind of interesting. You also hear the program being referred to as a " business " . Maybe that means we`re best described as a " family business" ( ? ).

Matt0424 said:

Just an fyi, but I've read SEVERAL articles from recruits the last few days who have said they loved the "family" feel at Alabama.

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That is true. Recruits do talk about the family atmosphere in Tuscaloosa more than they used to. The narrative at some schools has changed because I used to be able to guarantee what a recruit would say post-Auburn visit: "I just really like it there. The entire place is like home. The coaches, players, everybody... They're like a family. I've been to other schools that are all business, but I like the family feel at Auburn so much more."

Tideflyer said:

I noticed that too, and we don`t go out of our way to "promote" that either. Kind of interesting. You also hear the program being referred to as a " business " . Maybe that means we`re best described as a " family business" ( ? ).

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I think it just depends on a kids perspective of family. To one, family means structure. To another family may mean fun. To a third it may mean brotherhood.

As much as I like to make fun of the Auburn "fambly", at some point these kids need it to be more than "just a business". If not, then you'd see a lot of these kids burn out, or transfer, or not even commit.

I think we've been successful as a program because we do promote an environment that is very familial to kids, while pushing them to be the best. While it isn't all fun and games, you know the person next to you (whether coach or teammates) has your best interest at heart.

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Look no further than the helmet sticker for Tenpenny. A kid our players adopted as a brother even though he left the nest. An example of both sides of the coin.

IMALOYAL1 said:

Look no further than the helmet sticker for Tenpenny. A kid our players adopted as a brother even though he left the nest. An example of both sides of the coin.

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Yep