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2016 Election - Clinton: The Hillary Clinton Thread

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selmaborntidefan

selmaborntidefan

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Jon said:
I honestly don't think he makes it to 2020

and I'll surprise most by saying I hope I am wrong

But I will call back my prediction from really, really early in the Can Trump win thread and say I firmly believe he will be impeached. Perhaps even lead by the same Ultra Conservative Christians that put him there


Oh yeah, and I hate Unger. Dude is a straight up idiot
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Your utter despisement of a tiny group of people based on whatever alleged bad experiences you had growing up detract mightily from your (mostly) lucid and thoughtful statements even where I disagree.

Are you now suggesting Christians went and took over such Yankee outposts as Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania? I guess they should have done that in 2008 and 2012, right?
 
selmaborntidefan

selmaborntidefan

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MattinBama said:
http://www.snopes.com/leaked-videos-clinton-voter-fraud/

http://www.snopes.com/voter-fraud-in-2016-primary/
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While I won't enter the dispute here, I'm amused by how many people think putting up a link to Snopes constitutes a refutation of an argument.

I mean, this is like a religious battle over whether Christian salvation is by faith alone (Romans) or faith plus works (James), and the two sides just quote one against the other as if that settles it.

I don't doubt for a second Hillary won the popular vote in the fall election and probably legitimately. I'm sure she will sleep better at night knowing she was the 'real champion,' you know? Just like Al Gore does no doubt. It will keep her from having to ask herself the REAL self analysis question, which the old bat has never done: "How in the hell could I be so utterly pathetic that it was even close against an inexperience buffoon with no self-control?"
 
Jon

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selmaborntidefan said:
Your utter despisement of a tiny group of people based on whatever alleged bad experiences you had growing up detract mightily from your (mostly) lucid and thoughtful statements even where I disagree.

Are you now suggesting Christians went and took over such Yankee outposts as Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania? I guess they should have done that in 2008 and 2012, right?
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huh?

Are you saying that ultra conservative Christians didn't elect him? Near as I can tell he carried that group higher than anyone, ever

and I made no comment on those states. at all. But have you ever been to those states? Outside of the cities they may as well be Mississippi, I know I have a ton of redneck family in one of them. He got those people to get out and vote

my hatred of those people has nothing to do with past experiences and everything to do with the fact that they hate with a passion what I absolutely love, freedom
 
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We just had a free election. It just didn't go your way. There's always Canada.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
selmaborntidefan

selmaborntidefan

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Jon said:
Are you saying that ultra conservative Christians didn't elect him?
Near as I can tell he carried that group higher than anyone, ever
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No, that's actually not true.

It was 81-16, although I'd be very interested in the number who voted. That simply won't compare to the monolithic black vote for the Democrats since the Reagan time frame. Now, if your argument is that Trump did better among evangelicals than any Republican ever, that's probably true. Of course, that history undercuts all of your other (unstated) assumptions - they're against a woman (not true, they overwhelmingly went for McCain AFTER he chose Palin, so the woman argument is gone), and they voted in larger numbers for Obama (there went the 'racist' argument, too).

There are a LOT of people that claim the mantle of Christianity in the USA, a majority. The number of evangelicals is a subset and the number of conservative evangelicals is even smaller albeit a vast majority.

Jon said:
and I made no comment on those states. at all. But have you ever been to those states? Outside of the cities they may as well be Mississippi, I know I have a ton of redneck family in one of them. He got those people to get out and vote
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1) The turnout was smaller in those states
2) Some of those folks were black and he did a little better among blacks than Reps normally do
3) Do you realize that your stereotypical statements right there are NO DIFFERENT than people who think they know about black people because they had a bad experience with a few when they were younger?
4) without those states, he doesn't win, so you didn't have to say it.

Jon said:
my hatred of those people has nothing to do with past experiences and everything to do with the fact that they hate with a passion what I absolutely love, freedom
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So you basically admit to hating Christians....incredible, Jon.

I think you're probably better than this, and if you stop for a moment, you'd find a lot of us have your exact same opinion about a lot more things than you want to admit. To take just two: my view of Trump and yours seem to be pretty much the same and we both seem to think the same thing about David Barton's historical revisionism. Sure, we disagree on some points, but the hostility is a little extreme.

If what you're saying is you fear a theocracy, so do I, and so do a lot of us. Believe it or not, a lot of us don't feel any compulsion to institute the millennium here in the USA>
 
Jon

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selmaborntidefan said:
No, that's actually not true.

It was 81-16, although I'd be very interested in the number who voted. That simply won't compare to the monolithic black vote for the Democrats since the Reagan time frame. Now, if your argument is that Trump did better among evangelicals than any Republican ever, that's probably true. Of course, that history undercuts all of your other (unstated) assumptions - they're against a woman (not true, they overwhelmingly went for McCain AFTER he chose Palin, so the woman argument is gone), and they voted in larger numbers for Obama (there went the 'racist' argument, too).

There are a LOT of people that claim the mantle of Christianity in the USA, a majority. The number of evangelicals is a subset and the number of conservative evangelicals is even smaller albeit a vast majority.



1) The turnout was smaller in those states
2) Some of those folks were black and he did a little better among blacks than Reps normally do
3) Do you realize that your stereotypical statements right there are NO DIFFERENT than people who think they know about black people because they had a bad experience with a few when they were younger?
4) without those states, he doesn't win, so you didn't have to say it.



So you basically admit to hating Christians....incredible, Jon.

I think you're probably better than this, and if you stop for a moment, you'd find a lot of us have your exact same opinion about a lot more things than you want to admit. To take just two: my view of Trump and yours seem to be pretty much the same and we both seem to think the same thing about David Barton's historical revisionism. Sure, we disagree on some points, but the hostility is a little extreme.

If what you're saying is you fear a theocracy, so do I, and so do a lot of us. Believe it or not, a lot of us don't feel any compulsion to institute the millennium here in the USA>
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not in the mood for the derail

so if you want to talk Evangelical politics, start a new thread and maybe I'll join it
 
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92tide

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selmaborntidefan said:
While I won't enter the dispute here, I'm amused by how many people think putting up a link to Snopes constitutes a refutation of an argument.

I mean, this is like a religious battle over whether Christian salvation is by faith alone (Romans) or faith plus works (James), and the two sides just quote one against the other as if that settles it.

I don't doubt for a second Hillary won the popular vote in the fall election and probably legitimately. I'm sure she will sleep better at night knowing she was the 'real champion,' you know? Just like Al Gore does no doubt. It will keep her from having to ask herself the REAL self analysis question, which the old bat has never done: "How in the hell could I be so utterly pathetic that it was even close against an inexperience buffoon with no self-control?"
Click to expand...
the argument was that the videos showed definitive "proof" of vote shenanigans by democrats (ballot stuffing). the snopes link said, no, these are actually videos of russian voting. so that pretty much constitutes refutation of that argument
 
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