2016 Season QB Thread

bamaslammer

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Re: Spring Practice Thread (Interviews, Press Conferences, Practice Reports)

To be fair those extended battles have produced two national title runs.
The last two seasons were nice, I have a T-shirt from one of them. But they mean exactly SQUAT going forward. We do NOT have the nations best defensive line any more allowing us to never blitz and yet rack up record sack totals. You cannot win a championship with a game manager quarterback any more. I admit in the past it was possible but TODAY, sooner or later you're going to run into a point machine like DeShawn Watson and you're going to have to play slot machine football. I will be forever grateful that Jake Coker had the arm talent to ring that bell no matter how many times he had to against Clemson. Even with that Saban had to pull the greatest trick play in championship history to pull it off. I never viewed Coker as game manager. He was that guy who had the all world ability and a long list of sad stories how it never worked out for him. He was the Maverick, the Shane Falco. They should make a movie about Coker, it's classic Hollywood.

We need the next Shane Falco.
 

RTR91

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Re: Spring Practice Thread (Interviews, Press Conferences, Practice Reports)

The last two seasons were nice, I have a T-shirt from one of them. But they mean exactly SQUAT going forward. We do NOT have the nations best defensive line any more allowing us to never blitz and yet rack up record sack totals.
Probably should wait until we see the DL in action before making this comment. Guys like Hand, Frazier, and Payne aren't horrible.

You cannot win a championship with a game manager quarterback any more. I admit in the past it was possible but TODAY, sooner or later you're going to run into a point machine like DeShawn Watson and you're going to have to play slot machine football. I will be forever grateful that Jake Coker had the arm talent to ring that bell no matter how many times he had to against Clemson. Even with that Saban had to pull the greatest trick play in championship history to pull it off. I never viewed Coker as game manager. He was that guy who had the all world ability and a long list of sad stories how it never worked out for him. He was the Maverick, the Shane Falco. They should make a movie about Coker, it's classic Hollywood.

We need the next Shane Falco.
And what does a lengthy QB battle have to do with the team having a game manager at QB?
 

bamaslammer

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Re: Spring Practice Thread (Interviews, Press Conferences, Practice Reports)

Probably should wait until we see the DL in action before making this comment. Guys like Hand, Frazier, and Payne aren't horrible.



And what does a lengthy QB battle have to do with the team having a game manager at QB?
Don't get me wrong, I think our front DL is going to be very very good, possibly even great, but they don't have 6 top flight DE's to rotate like last year. Just for perspective our likely starter DaShawn Hand was third string last year. Our #2 guys against USC will all be guys who have never taken a snap at Alabama. Big difference in depth.

The length of the QB battle means the offense will be less prepared to start the season which usually translates to an "L" to Ole Miss and I HATE LOSING to those cheating lieing low down dirty worthless mouth breathers!
 

RTR91

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Re: Spring Practice Thread (Interviews, Press Conferences, Practice Reports)

Don't get me wrong, I think our front DL is going to be very very good, possibly even great, but they don't have 6 top flight DE's to rotate like last year. Just for perspective our likely starter DaShawn Hand was third string last year. Our #2 guys against USC will all be guys who have never taken a snap at Alabama. Big difference in depth.
IOW, it's like the running back position - plenty of talent just not as much experience as previous years.

The length of the QB battle means the offense will be less prepared to start the season which usually translates to an "L" to Ole Miss and I HATE LOSING to those cheating lieing low down dirty worthless mouth breathers!
In 2014, Alabama had a missed field goal and a fumble on a kickoff lead to 7 points. In 2015, Alabama had two fumbles on kickoffs lead to 10 points. Each game was a 6 point loss. Offense the reason for those losses?
 

bamaslammer

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Re: Spring Practice Thread (Interviews, Press Conferences, Practice Reports)

I disagree with the notion that Jake Coker was a game manager, I do realize that taken in total his stats suggest that, but When you have Derrick Henry in your backfield you're a moron if you don't feed that beast. but the staff has learned lessons of the past and they knew that once you get to championship level football you will face teams that will limit the run game. it's almost a universal trait of championship level teams (Notre Dame shouldn't have been there and wouldn't in today’s playoff setup)

So even if Coker handed off all season the proof comes when the rubber meets the road and Alabama has to pass, what did Coker do?


Mich St 25 for 30 zero picks, two TD's and 286 yards
Clemson 16 for 25 zero picks, two TD's and 335 yards

Like I said, Shane Falco, It's not about how you pass against Vandy it's how you pass when everything is on the line.
 

CrimsonForce

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Re: Spring Practice Thread (Interviews, Press Conferences, Practice Reports)

I disagree with the notion that Jake Coker was a game manager, I do realize that taken in total his stats suggest that, but When you have Derrick Henry in your backfield you're a moron if you don't feed that beast. but the staff has learned lessons of the past and they knew that once you get to championship level football you will face teams that will limit the run game. it's almost a universal trait of championship level teams (Notre Dame shouldn't have been there and wouldn't in today’s playoff setup)

So even if Coker handed off all season the proof comes when the rubber meets the road and Alabama has to pass, what did Coker do?


Mich St 25 for 30 zero picks, two TD's and 286 yards
Clemson 16 for 25 zero picks, two TD's and 335 yards

Like I said, Shane Falco, It's not about how you pass against Vandy it's how you pass when everything is on the line.
I think some people (not saying you do) misconstrue the concept of a game manager. To me a game manager is a QB who has to play within the confines of the offense to be successful. I'll use the NFL as an example since most people are familiar with the big name NFL QBs. Someone like Tom Brady or Peyton Manning could be looked it as a game manager. They must play within the timing and rhythm of the offense in order to be successful. OTOH, someone like Cam Newton, Aaron Rodgers or Ben Rothelisburger consistently play outside of the scripted offensive plays and they ad lib on a regular basis. These players can extend plays with their athleticism and physical stature by moving out of the pocket and making defenders miss. I don't think one style of QB is necessarily better than the other. Some teams are set up to have a game manager and some teams are built to have a playmaker at QB who can carry the team when things break down. Both models have been successful in college and the NFL..
 

81usaf92

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Re: Spring Practice Thread (Interviews, Press Conferences, Practice Reports)

I think some people (not saying you do) misconstrue the concept of a game manager. To me a game manager is a QB who has to play within the confines of the offense to be successful. I'll use the NFL as an example since most people are familiar with the big name NFL QBs. Someone like Tom Brady or Peyton Manning could be looked it as a game manager. They must play within the timing and rhythm of the offense in order to be successful. OTOH, someone like Cam Newton, Aaron Rodgers or Ben Rothelisburger consistently play outside of the scripted offensive plays and they ad lib on a regular basis. These players can extend plays with their athleticism and physical stature by moving out of the pocket and making defenders miss. I don't think one style of QB is necessarily better than the other. Some teams are set up to have a game manager and some teams are built to have a playmaker at QB who can carry the team when things break down. Both models have been successful in college and the NFL..
The problem you have is with qbs like Coker and Sims, but you also have had gmac and Aj. AJ and Gmac were clear game managers that played with a particular system in which you ran first. Same could be said with both Sims and Coker, but they were far more outside of the box as well. I think some of it might be Kiffin's philosophy, but a lot of it has to do with their skill sets. I think to call either a game manager is only partially true because they also had the potential to break the game wide open in more ways than your typical game manger could.

Whoever gets the job will this year will probably be kinda like Blake and Jake more than Gmac and AJ. I just think in the more modern sense of football, you have to have a backup plan when your defense eventually gives ground.
 

CrimsonForce

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Re: Spring Practice Thread (Interviews, Press Conferences, Practice Reports)

The problem you have is with qbs like Coker and Sims, but you also have had gmac and Aj. AJ and Gmac were clear game managers that played with a particular system in which you ran first. Same could be said with both Sims and Coker, but they were far more outside of the box as well. I think some of it might be Kiffin's philosophy, but a lot of it has to do with their skill sets. I think to call either a game manager is only partially true because they also had the potential to break the game wide open in more ways than your typical game manger could.

Whoever gets the job will this year will probably be kinda like Blake and Jake more than Gmac and AJ. I just think in the more modern sense of football, you have to have a backup plan when your defense eventually gives ground.
I'm not saying my definition of a game manager is the only way to view it. That's just how I look at it. To me it doesn't really matter the scheme, run first or pass first, as far as how a QB is labeled. IMO, if a QB can make plays on his own when things break down he is more of a playmaker (for lack of a better word) than game manager. Aaron Rodgers can make a defender miss, extend the play and make a deep throw down the field. That's something that you don't see from the Brady/Manning type of QB. I think Coker was mostly a game manager but he had his moments when he made plays on his own. I do agree with you that I think the best type of QB is one who can at least make some plays on his own like Coker did last year. It's tough when you have a sitting duck back there at QB because the defense always knows exactly where the QB will be..
 

gtgilbert

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Re: Spring Practice Thread (Interviews, Press Conferences, Practice Reports)

The problem you have is with qbs like Coker and Sims, but you also have had gmac and Aj. AJ and Gmac were clear game managers that played with a particular system in which you ran first. Same could be said with both Sims and Coker, but they were far more outside of the box as well. I think some of it might be Kiffin's philosophy, but a lot of it has to do with their skill sets. I think to call either a game manager is only partially true because they also had the potential to break the game wide open in more ways than your typical game manger could.

Whoever gets the job will this year will probably be kinda like Blake and Jake more than Gmac and AJ. I just think in the more modern sense of football, you have to have a backup plan when your defense eventually gives ground.
AJ was known to air it out every once and a while...

That said, I think the negative connotation about a "game manager" is ridiculous. The QBs #1 job, at least in the NFL, and it used to be in college, is to make sure the offense runs the best play possible given how the defense is lined up. This has changed a little bit with the stupid cards on the sidelines where the OC makes the read and signals the audibles in, but it's still really important in college.

What some QBs can do, as you mentioned, if give you more options on what to do against a defense, either with accurate long balls, a QB run, zone reads etc, but they still have to make sure they don't execute a play right into the teeth of a defense...
 

81usaf92

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Re: Spring Practice Thread (Interviews, Press Conferences, Practice Reports)

AJ was known to air it out every once and a while...

That said, I think the negative connotation about a "game manager" is ridiculous. The QBs #1 job, at least in the NFL, and it used to be in college, is to make sure the offense runs the best play possible given how the defense is lined up. This has changed a little bit with the stupid cards on the sidelines where the OC makes the read and signals the audibles in, but it's still really important in college.

What some QBs can do, as you mentioned, if give you more options on what to do against a defense, either with accurate long balls, a QB run, zone reads etc, but they still have to make sure they don't execute a play right into the teeth of a defense...
Im not going to get into an full on AJ debate, but lets for argument's sake say that Jake and Blake made far more long bomb passes and were far better runners because there is far more evidence to support it.


As far as game managers in the modern era... I would prefer one if the situation is right, but would like a mix of game manager/ play maker over it if possible in this new era of football. Perfect example: Would Cooper Bateman or Alec Morris been able to win us the title like Jake Coker? I would lean no because there were times like in the Georgia game in which Jake's arm alone backed UGA off the line. Cooper and Alec fell more in line with the safe game manager description where Jake fell in line of the riskier description.
 

CrimsonForce

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Re: Spring Practice Thread (Interviews, Press Conferences, Practice Reports)

If you want to follow play by play of the scrimmage check out @capstonekid on Twitter. He did the same thing last year and it was accurate. A lot of very interesting tidbits in the play by play..
 

81usaf92

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Re: Spring Practice Thread (Interviews, Press Conferences, Practice Reports)

If you want to follow play by play of the scrimmage check out @capstonekid on Twitter. He did the same thing last year and it was accurate. A lot of very interesting tidbits in the play by play..
delete

you beat me to it
 

KrAzY3

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Re: Spring Practice Thread (Interviews, Press Conferences, Practice Reports)

Yep. That's the most eye catching observation so far. The experience of Bateman may win him the starting spot..
Well still a bit early to read anything into it. Bateman is the most experienced so yes, to be expected. Barnett, it's the first meaningful scrimmage for him really. But, I do think it's clearly a case of if anyone can overtake Bateman.
 

rgw

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Re: Spring Practice Thread (Interviews, Press Conferences, Practice Reports)

Right now I think it is fair to categorize that the QB battle is more "it is [name]'s job to win" than "it is [name]'s job to lose."


It is wide open but they will have all the benefits of an experience offensive unit around them when one does separate himself from the pack.
 

DzynKingRTR

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Re: Spring Practice Thread (Interviews, Press Conferences, Practice Reports)

I wouldn't read too much in how the QB's looked in scrimmage. Remember Sims looked real bad in scrimmages.
 

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