2016 Season QB Thread

BamaMoon

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Re: 2016 Season QB Thread (Moved QB Posts from Practice Thread)

From the founder and CEO of 247 Sports. Nothing really earth shattering. Kind of confirms what most of us thought..

Is this based on some "insider news" or is he just "speculating" like most of us???

If he's right, I expect we might see Barnett and Hurts mostly against USC.
 

CrimsonForce

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Re: 2016 Season QB Thread (Moved QB Posts from Practice Thread)

Is this based on some "insider news" or is he just "speculating" like most of us???

If he's right, I expect we might see Barnett and Hurts mostly against USC.
I couldn't tell you if his post is based on anything "insider" or not. I'm sure he has some inside connections to most programs. Just thought it was interesting..
 

RTR91

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Re: 2016 Season QB Thread (Moved QB Posts from Practice Thread)

I couldn't tell you if his post is based on anything "insider" or not. I'm sure he has some inside connections to most programs. Just thought it was interesting..
Shannon is a Bama guy. I'm sure he has some connections within the program.
 

colbysullivan

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Re: 2016 Season QB Thread (Moved QB Posts from Practice Thread)

Shannon is a Bama guy. I'm sure he has some connections within the program.
Agreed. I was still pretty shocked to see "won the team". If Hurts starts, I hope he's ready. He looked like the best QB on the field at A-Day but you never can tell what's gonna happen until the lights come on.
 

rgw

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Re: 2016 Season QB Thread (Moved QB Posts from Practice Thread)

Well one thing I can say about Shannon B. Terry is that he didn't shy away from his proclamation. Sometimes these guys waffle so that they can sound like they were right even when proven wrong. This is the second year in a row where Bateman has been the guy with the most time on campus and he didn't run away from the pack. I didn't think much of it when Coker eventually beat him out because Coker had the pure years advantage over him but I think the competition was a testament to Bateman's knowledge of the offense relative to Coker.

Bateman seems to be the guy who knows the playbook, does everything the coaches ask of him (he moved to WR for a minute to help the team out), but he doesn't seem to be able to inspire the players or staff at QB. We can talk about the inability to throw deep consistently but lets remember we've made that work in the past. Kiffin may prefer vertical throwing talent but he can cobble something together without it.

I have nothing to support this really but I've wondered if it is just a matter of regional personality differences. Cooper Bateman is from Utah, he may just not connect with the players that well. Not that they aren't professionals about getting it done on the field but look at our last two QBs. I think Sims had the respect of the players: he fought for everything he got to keep his scholarship and get an education to better help his young family. I think he had a maturity about him, competitive spirit, and commitment to the program that made him a natural leader if not a natural quarterback. Coker may have not been the most polished quarterback but he wasn't afraid of contact and showed a ton of grit. It is easy for everyone to get behind that kind of guy. Also, he was a total country boy which, lets be real, that is the background for most of this team despite how well we recruit nationally.

I'm not trying to make this a race thing at all. It is just a reality that he may not be the kind of guy who can connect with many of these guys at a personal level required to be the leader of the offense. He's about North Face and snowboarding while most of these guys are about Mossy Oak and deer hunting. :D
 

BAMAfan777

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Re: 2016 Season QB Thread (Moved QB Posts from Practice Thread)

With all those interceptions and fumbles in Saturday's scrimmage, do you really think that Barnett is going to start against USC?
 

TiderJack

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Re: 2016 Season QB Thread (Moved QB Posts from Practice Thread)

Agreed. I was still pretty shocked to see "won the team". If Hurts starts, I hope he's ready. He looked like the best QB on the field at A-Day but you never can tell what's gonna happen until the lights come on.
I have not mentioned it and have no idea how accurate this is so TIFWIW, but a friend of mine said Jonathan Allen said Hurts is the best QB on the team after the 1st scrimmage.This backs what Terry said about winning over the team.
 

Intl.Aperture

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Re: 2016 Season QB Thread (Moved QB Posts from Practice Thread)

Well one thing I can say about Shannon B. Terry is that he didn't shy away from his proclamation. Sometimes these guys waffle so that they can sound like they were right even when proven wrong. This is the second year in a row where Bateman has been the guy with the most time on campus and he didn't run away from the pack. I didn't think much of it when Coker eventually beat him out because Coker had the pure years advantage over him but I think the competition was a testament to Bateman's knowledge of the offense relative to Coker.

Bateman seems to be the guy who knows the playbook, does everything the coaches ask of him (he moved to WR for a minute to help the team out), but he doesn't seem to be able to inspire the players or staff at QB. We can talk about the inability to throw deep consistently but lets remember we've made that work in the past. Kiffin may prefer vertical throwing talent but he can cobble something together without it.

I have nothing to support this really but I've wondered if it is just a matter of regional personality differences. Cooper Bateman is from Utah, he may just not connect with the players that well. Not that they aren't professionals about getting it done on the field but look at our last two QBs. I think Sims had the respect of the players: he fought for everything he got to keep his scholarship and get an education to better help his young family. I think he had a maturity about him, competitive spirit, and commitment to the program that made him a natural leader if not a natural quarterback. Coker may have not been the most polished quarterback but he wasn't afraid of contact and showed a ton of grit. It is easy for everyone to get behind that kind of guy. Also, he was a total country boy which, lets be real, that is the background for most of this team despite how well we recruit nationally.

I'm not trying to make this a race thing at all. It is just a reality that he may not be the kind of guy who can connect with many of these guys at a personal level required to be the leader of the offense. He's about North Face and snowboarding while most of these guys are about Mossy Oak and deer hunting. :D
If the team feels like Bateman is still the same player he was during the Ole Miss game - it's unlikely they would rally behind him. He looked reticent and uninspiring with his decision making during A-Day (whether he threw the ball away or not) and it doesn't sound like much has changed through fall camp. Sounds more or less like the guy who took the field against Ole Miss. Wouldn't surprise me to see the team gather around a guy who seems more confident ripping the ball (boom or bust) and more comfortable athletically (both Barnett and Hurts). This is all conjecture of course.
 

KrAzY3

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Re: 2016 Season QB Thread (Moved QB Posts from Practice Thread)

The thing that worries me is the "QB by mid-season" part. If Hurts is not ready to start the USC game (and by that I mean to be 1A or 1B), it is really dangerous to assume he'll be ready by the point in the season in which a single loss likely puts Alabama out of the title chase. I love the potential that Hurts has, but from my perspective the choice regarding playing him or not is a little more black and white.

Either Alabama has the confidence in him to get the job done from the first game on, or they should give strong consideration to keeping the redshirt on him. I don't mind a qb competition, I don't mind a 1A and 1B, I do though mind the idea of a battle going all the way to the middle of the season. Hurts is either ready or he isn't.
I have nothing to support this really but I've wondered if it is just a matter of regional personality differences. Cooper Bateman is from Utah, he may just not connect with the players that well.
My opinion on the matter (based on limited information obviously) is that Bateman thus far has lacked the "killer instinct" that you'd like to see from a QB. I don't like to say anything critical of players who come to Alabama, work hard, do their job, and such but if we're talking about Bateman's limitations I think part of them are mental. Yes, he knows the playbook, he is probably the most mature and so on, but to bring up an example, the guy supposedly has great speed and he just won't use his legs! Why?

We've seen it from the other QBs, when the moments were big they were capable of something special. We're still waiting for that from Bateman, even from scrimmages, even from A-Day, we're waiting for him to do something that makes us go "wow". Ole Miss is just one example and he shouldn't be judged entirely on that basis (tough defense, etc...) but what if that is really just who Bateman is as a QB? Tentative, hesitant, reluctant, those sort of words come to mind when I see some of his performances. Some of the nicest things I've seen said about him so far really would come down to his ability to throw the ball away.

Having said that, if he got the job and settled in, may be that part of him would come out and we'd see the killer instinct. We'd see him come up big, we'd see him put his body on the line, we'd see fearless determination. We haven't yet though and it's fair to wonder if that's part of who he is. Assuming that's the case, Alabama could win with that, but he's not going to inspire the team playing that way.

With all those interceptions and fumbles in Saturday's scrimmage, do you really think that Barnett is going to start against USC?
This gets into the 1A and 1B situation. Phillip Sims looked shaky at times, he still was 1B and had his shot. I think it is easy to forget Barnett is still a freshman, he might not be ready yet. So, I've said all along I think Bateman starts the game against USC, but can I see Barnett getting meaningful playing time? Yes, I can.
 

CrimsonRuss

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Re: 2016 Season QB Thread (Moved QB Posts from Practice Thread)

If Hurts starts, I hope he's ready. He looked like the best QB on the field at A-Day but you never can tell what's gonna happen until the lights come on.
Did Hurts look the best at A day because he was given more reps? I've gone back and rewatched the A day game and that's a question I'm struggling with. Hurts had 7 drives while Barnett had 3 drives. From a pure statistical analysis. Hurts led the offense down the field 3 times on scoring opportunities that led to 2 missed FG's an 1 TD. Barnett led the offense down the field 2 times on scoring opportunities that led to 2 missed FG's. Putting their reps into percentages. Hurts led the offense to potential scoring drives 43% of the time while Barnett led the offense to potential scoring drives 66% of the time. Barnett also had better passing numbers.
To me Barnett looked the best even with limited action. Am I missing something? Was Barnett hurt during A day an therefore his reps limited due to injury? I don't recall anything about Barnett being injured being talked about before or after A day... Thoughts?
 

rgw

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Re: 2016 Season QB Thread (Moved QB Posts from Practice Thread)

I mean what do we have if not just conjecture with how Saban manages access to practice?! Not that I mind, we can spin some wonderful stories up in this time of the year.

I just think that Saban even realizes that sometimes QB decisions are as much about how the players respond to the guy in the huddle and the practice field as it is pure athletic talent and knowledge of the offense. If it was about pure throwing ability, Sims wouldn't have been in the QB depth chart long enough to get his opportunity. If it was about knowledge of the offense, Coker would've been on the sideline all of 2015. Those guys won the position in spite of not being the prototypical choice for the job. Sims clawed for all of his growth as a passer. Got better as the season progressed too. Coker looked as lost as a true freshmen at points in the 2015 season but the team played better with him on the field and he got good enough by November to be a championship caliber QB for this team.
 

CrimsonForce

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2016 Season QB Thread (Moved QB Posts from Practice Thread)

I wonder how much the Clemson game and the play of Watson is going into the decision to play Hurts. I think CNS saw how a talent like that at the QB position can neutralize the best defense. Maybe it has nothing to do with the decision but it's interesting to think about..
 
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colbysullivan

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Re: 2016 Season QB Thread (Moved QB Posts from Practice Thread)

Did Hurts look the best at A day because he was given more reps? I've gone back and rewatched the A day game and that's a question I'm struggling with. Hurts had 7 drives while Barnett had 3 drives. From a pure statistical analysis. Hurts led the offense down the field 3 times on scoring opportunities that led to 2 missed FG's an 1 TD. Barnett led the offense down the field 2 times on scoring opportunities that led to 2 missed FG's. Putting their reps into percentages. Hurts led the offense to potential scoring drives 43% of the time while Barnett led the offense to potential scoring drives 66% of the time. Barnett also had better passing numbers.
To me Barnett looked the best even with limited action. Am I missing something? Was Barnett hurt during A day an therefore his reps limited due to injury? I don't recall anything about Barnett being injured being talked about before or after A day... Thoughts?
I understand what you're saying, and I can't really disagree. I just remember Hurts making plays that other QBs weren't making. You're right in that Barnett seemed to have a small sample size but maybe they gave Hurts more reps for a reason. Maybe they saw something in him...
 

rgw

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Re: 2016 Season QB Thread (Moved QB Posts from Practice Thread)

And another thing to consider, I think we can suffer one loss and still be in the discussion. So long as that loss comes between game 1 and sometime in early November. You can't afford to lose late in the regular season (game 12) or in the conference championship game. We can afford to drop a game where Hurts struggles as long as he comes out the other side better for it.

But the other side of the issue is that I think you can more afford to lose within conference than out of conference with how these things tend to be evaluated for the playoffs. Once you lose an important regional game, people start making outside conference analysis on how you'd compete with other conference teams. When teams lose in conference, you're more likely to get the "conference grind" mulligan. So we need to consider the fact that a USC loss could be more damaging to our national semifinals selection chances than a loss to Ole Miss or Tennessee in conference play.
 

colbysullivan

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Re: 2016 Season QB Thread (Moved QB Posts from Practice Thread)

And another thing to consider, I think we can suffer one loss and still be in the discussion. So long as that loss comes between game 1 and sometime in early November. You can't afford to lose late in the regular season (game 12) or in the conference championship game. We can afford to drop a game where Hurts struggles as long as he comes out the other side better for it.

But the other side of the issue is that I think you can more afford to lose within conference than out of conference with how these things tend to be evaluated for the playoffs. Once you lose an important regional game, people start making outside conference analysis on how you'd compete with other conference teams. When teams lose in conference, you're more likely to get the "conference grind" mulligan. So we need to consider the fact that a USC loss could be more damaging to our national semifinals selection chances than a loss to Ole Miss or Tennessee in conference play.
For the most part, that's probably correct. However, I feel like if we lose to USC and then run the table in the SEC and win the SECCG, we'd be a shoe in for the playoffs.
 

bodiddle

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Re: 2016 Season QB Thread (Moved QB Posts from Practice Thread)

For the most part, that's probably correct. However, I feel like if we lose to USC and then run the table in the SEC and win the SECCG, we'd be a shoe in for the playoffs.
Totally agree.
 

TIDE-HSV

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Re: 2016 Season QB Thread (Moved QB Posts from Practice Thread)

For the most part, that's probably correct. However, I feel like if we lose to USC and then run the table in the SEC and win the SECCG, we'd be a shoe in for the playoffs.
I agree that we'd be a shoo-in under those circumstances. However, if we lose to USC, I'm not sure about our ability to run the table...
 

LA4Bama

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Re: 2016 Season QB Thread (Moved QB Posts from Practice Thread)

I think Sims had the respect of the players: he fought for everything he got to keep his scholarship and get an education to better help his young family. I think he had a maturity about him, competitive spirit, and commitment to the program that made him a natural leader if not a natural quarterback. Coker may have not been the most polished quarterback but he wasn't afraid of contact and showed a ton of grit. It is easy for everyone to get behind that kind of guy. Also, he was a total country boy which, lets be real, that is the background for most of this team despite how well we recruit nationally.

I'm not trying to make this a race thing at all. It is just a reality that he may not be the kind of guy who can connect with many of these guys at a personal level required to be the leader of the offense. He's about North Face and snowboarding while most of these guys are about Mossy Oak and deer hunting. :D
This is a good point. Makes me think about this in a new way.

It might be country versus mountain, but it also might be that a QB needs a certain brashness and bravado that the somewhat staid Utah culture doesn't value as highly as the sports culture of the south. Sims was mature but also had a bit of swagger (think of him taunting the LSU fans in 2013). I think you are right on about Coker putting his shoulder down and plowing over linebackers "won the team over". Coach wants someone who can manage the offense, but (these days) he always talks about winning the team over. Swagger and being a game manager are, psychologically, opposite poles. One is hot, the other cool. One is more Kiffin, the other more Saban. Right now it looks like Bateman has the manager's cool (and if this was 2011 I'd bet he'd be the guy), Barnett has swag, but maybe Hurts has swag plus the ice in the veins (physical instead of mental coolness) to go with it.
 

JDCrimson

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Re: 2016 Season QB Thread (Moved QB Posts from Practice Thread)

I think coaches pretty well know what it takes to beat a given team and whether his team has what it takes to beat said despite how they are coached and what is said in the locker room prior to the game. They are professionals. That being said, if Bateman starts at USC it tells me alot that maybe the competition will be tabled for that game to get the win with very conservstive play and resume the next game.

I know we are not playing Wisconsin but I thought that Bateman could have played the whole game last year and we likely would have won anyway. I think we all believe USC is a better team this year.

I think the coaches believe they can win with either of the 3. But it's imperative to find the guy then players think they can with.

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