2016 Season QB Thread

Alasippi

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Re: Spring Practice Thread (Interviews, Press Conferences, Practice Reports)

I'm not all trying to say you guys are doing this, just borrowing the quotes.

Ain't it crazy how for what seems like 57 years in a row, we have this new amazing best ever freshman QB who only needs some experience and then he will win 2 heisman trophies in a row while setting every QB record in the books.
Hurts has incredible arm strength and can run like a deer. His high school highlights against tough Texas High School competition was one of the most impressive I've ever seen. He also grew up the son of a coach, so he's been around the game literally all his life and has a football mind already. That puts him way in front of a lot of other "Can't miss" prospects we've had in the past.
I really think he's a difference maker and it wouldn't surprise me if he gets some playing time this year.
 

WylieTexasTider

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Re: Spring Practice Thread (Interviews, Press Conferences, Practice Reports)

I'm fairly sure everyone here wants the QB that will give us the best chance to win. Whoever that is, I don't care as long as Coach thinks he can win. Personally, I hoped Barnett would come on top so that we could have the same QB for a few years. After having AJ for so many years, it's been tough to get used to the one-and-done QB's we've had for the last couple of year. But if Cornwell or Bateman give us the best chance to win, I'm all in.
I want the QB who gives us the best chance to win. If it is Bateman or Cornwell, hope they have 2 solid years and go pro leaving Barnett or Hurts to step in as a RS Jr or Soph and then have 2 years.... Think Miami back on the 80's/early 90's with Kelly, Kosar, Testaverde, Walsh, Erickson, Gino....Most of them only started 2 years. I know kids want to play but, sometimes sitting and waiting is ok too....

Many people are scared of Bateman for how he played last year. Well, Jake scared people with how he played in 2014 and then came back and led us to a title in 2015.
 

rgw

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Re: Spring Practice Thread (Interviews, Press Conferences, Practice Reports)

Hurts has a ton of potential. Look forward to see him compete for the job in a few years.
 

CrimsonForce

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Spring Practice Thread (Interviews, Press Conferences, Practice Reports)

What obsession?

I think everyone wants the guy who gives us the best opportunity. That isn't always the veteran guy. Having time in a system doesn't dictate success, nor does just being super talented.

I think a lot of people cling to Barnett as the hope because the small sample size of Bateman was not good, and Cornwell just vanished last summer/fall.

That's fairly legit reasoning to me.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
I know this is a small sample size but it does show that there are Bama fans who prefer Barnett. I'm not sure if you'd call that obsession or not..

 

rgw

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Re: Spring Practice Thread (Interviews, Press Conferences, Practice Reports)

I just want the best man to win. It is interesting that 3 of the 4 candidates are dual-threat quarterback. Who would've thought that would happen 3-4 years ago?
 

TheTradition

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Re: Spring Practice Thread (Interviews, Press Conferences, Practice Reports)

Whoever wins the job is probably gonna start for at least two years so I don't think continuity should be an issue. Bateman has two years left, and Cornwell has three.
 

4Q Basket Case

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Re: Spring Practice Thread (Interviews, Press Conferences, Practice Reports)

I know this is a small sample size but it does show that there are Bama fans who prefer Barnett. I'm not sure if you'd call that obsession or not..

Just wow.

So almost half (49%) of respondents are buying hype and potential over any and everything else. And an additional 19% favor someone with 2 years and 0 snaps in the program over someone with 3 years in the program, meaningful playing time, and a better spring performance thus far this year.

After lessons from the past two years on the value of time in the program, I honestly don't know what to say to almost 70% of these guys.
 

RTR91

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Spring Practice Thread (Interviews, Press Conferences, Practice Reports)

Just wow.

So almost half (49%) of respondents are buying hype and potential over any and everything else. And an additional 19% favor someone with 2 years and 0 snaps in the program over someone with 3 years in the program, meaningful playing time, and a better spring performance thus far this year.

After lessons from the past two years on the value of time in the program, I honestly don't know what to say to almost 70% of these guys.
It goes back to the recruiting hype of the players. Krazy had a good explanation of why people aren't as big on Cooper as the others.

I just want the best man to win. It is interesting that 3 of the 4 candidates are dual-threat quarterback. Who would've thought that would happen 3-4 years ago?

Saban has said, or at least indicated, for years he's wanted a more mobile QB. Heck, Star Jackson and Nick Fanuzzi are proof.
 

chuaner

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Re: Spring Practice Thread (Interviews, Press Conferences, Practice Reports)

AJ is 4 star. Philip Sims is 5 star. Bateman, Cornwell are 4 stars. While Barnett is 5 star in many sites.


People have high hope on Barnett largely because of last year before the championship game, some of our players mentioned he could really tare down our defense.



I will answer the Barnett hype question. He's basically the top QB prospect Alabama has had since Brodie Croyle. That's a lot of hype, but with Brodie and with Barnett there's never been any question at all of talent. Barnett is a good runner with a good arm, and good size. He has the physical tools and people are not going to stop believing in him anytime soon. He also conducted himself perfectly as a recruit and showed leadership and helping steer players to Alabama.

I mentioned it earlier, but I'll reiterate the points here. He is in a lot of ways like Phillip Sims. Both were very highly ranked as prospects, both were very highly touted, both were talked up as candidates for the starting job as redshirt freshman. Now with Phillip Sims it was a mixed bag. Remember, even though he never really got it together completely, he was given a chance of earning the starting job over AJ all the way into the regular season. Now, he turned out to basically be a college bust right?

So why are NFL teams still taking a look at him? What's the deal with a college bust still getting a chance with NFL teams? Because he's so darn talented, that's why! And when someone is that talented, people are going to look at him and go if he just gets it together he could be something special. I also brought up OJ Howard, he's another really talented guy, but for a while he seemed to vanish right? A really talented guy not doing much on the field. Then all of the sudden there he is, the dominating force we all knew he could be. That's what is so enticing about a talent like Blake Barnett, the fact that I think we all know if he can get to where he needs to be mentally and perhaps get a little better conditioning, he can be something special.

Now, having said that will he be that guy this year or even at Alabama? He might not, but I don't think spring is going to be the determining factor on that either. Then we do get back to Bateman and why people might not be as behind him as one might expect. Well, he didn't hit the ground running at Alabama. Luke Del Rio came in at the same time and surpassed him at the depth chart so he was buried in the depth chart until he re-emerged last season. Then there was some struggles last year as well, which I think left the door open in a lot of people's minds. Coker and Blake Sims both struggled though so it doesn't mean Bateman isn't capable of doing the job, but there's another dynamic here that's hard to miss.

From my recollection Alabama hasn't had that many 4 star quarterbacks since Nick Saban has been at Alabama. Now, some services had guys at 3 or 4, or 4 or 5 but from I believe the 4+ guys would be Star Jackson, Phillip Sims, Cooper Bateman, David Cornwell, Blake Barnett, and Jalen Hurts. So, not only is Alabama going to get a 4 star starter at QB, but it's just the most talent laded group of guys going after the job we've seen. It is going to be really hard to completely give up on any of those guys because they're all very talented.
 

Tide1986

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Re: Spring Practice Thread (Interviews, Press Conferences, Practice Reports)

Yup..Coach Saban has proven time & time again as our HC, no matter the position, he's not afraid to give a True Freshmen a starting spot or give them plenty of playing time if he's earned it & deserves it..

By doing so it doesn't allow our players to get a false sense of security about their spot, if you don't work harder to make yourself better, there's younger & equal talent chomping at the bit to take your spot(including our QB's)..That's a big reason behind our success & dominant run in college football under Coach Saban..
For some reason, I don't think the "not afraid to give a true freshman a starting spot" mindset applies to the same degree for the quarterback position as it does for other positions. At least that's been my observation of Saban.
 

4Q Basket Case

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Re: Spring Practice Thread (Interviews, Press Conferences, Practice Reports)

For some reason, I don't think the "not afraid to give a true freshman a starting spot" mindset applies to the same degree for the quarterback position as it does for other positions. At least that's been my observation of Saban.
I don't think Saban is afraid to give the QB job to a freshman. I think he asks so much from the position, that it's almost impossible for anyone that young to deliver.

I've listed these before, but humor me now:
-- Lead. Including convincing 23-year-old 5th year seniors to follow.
-- Take care of the ball.
-- Read the defense, evaluate the strengths and weaknesses of both the deployment and the opposing personnel in it.
-- Make that read in 3 seconds or less.
-- Having made the right read in less than 3 seconds, get the offense into the best play to both minimize the offensive weaknesses in personnel and alignment, and take advantage of the weaknesses in defensive personnel and deployment.
-- Make the play call.
-- Get the play off before the play clock expires.
-- Take care of the ball.
-- Execute the play though the ensuing six seconds of chaos, adjusting on the fly to both positive and negative developments
-- Don't turn the ball over.
-- Don't let 100,000+ screaming fans distract you
-- Make plays when they present themselves
-- Don't let others' mistakes distract you (you're the leader)
-- Do all that /:)).$@! all over again within 35 seconds
-- NEVER get ruffled (you're the leader)
-- Don't turn the ball over
-- Lather, rinse, repeat 75 times in 180 minutes
-- Did I mention lead and don't turn the ball over?

If you can find a freshman of any description who can do all...not just some...of that better than someone with an edge of 3+ years or more, I'll show you a 2x Heisman winner (the freshman) or a bad recruiting mistake (the older guy).

99.999999% of human beings simply can't do that. I haven't seen one yet who could.
 

81usaf92

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Re: Spring Practice Thread (Interviews, Press Conferences, Practice Reports)

I don't think Saban is afraid to give the QB job to a freshman. I think he asks so much from the position, that it's almost impossible for anyone that young to deliver.

I've listed these before, but humor me now:
-- Lead. Including convincing 23-year-old 5th year seniors to follow.
-- Take care of the ball.
-- Read the defense, evaluate the strengths and weaknesses of both the deployment and the opposing personnel in it.
-- Make that read in 3 seconds or less.
-- Having made the right read in less than 3 seconds, get the offense into the best play to both minimize the offensive weaknesses in personnel and alignment, and take advantage of the weaknesses in defensive personnel and deployment.
-- Make the play call.
-- Get the play off before the play clock expires.
-- Take care of the ball.
-- Execute the play though the ensuing six seconds of chaos, adjusting on the fly to both positive and negative developments
-- Don't turn the ball over.
-- Don't let 100,000+ screaming fans distract you
-- Make plays when they present themselves
-- Don't let others' mistakes distract you (you're the leader)
-- Do all that /:)).$@! all over again within 35 seconds
-- NEVER get ruffled (you're the leader)
-- Don't turn the ball over
-- Lather, rinse, repeat 75 times in 180 minutes
-- Did I mention lead and don't turn the ball over?

If you can find a freshman of any description who can do all...not just some...of that better than someone with an edge of 3+ years or more, I'll show you a 2x Heisman winner (the freshman) or a bad recruiting mistake (the older guy).

99.999999% of human beings simply can't do that. I haven't seen one yet who could.
Jameis Winston and Johnny manziel


And to your list as it pertains to us,no one saw many of those things in a 5th year senior last year, but all this crap about "if it's close give it to the young buck" was the dominating opinion amongst fans. So what has changed?
 

LA4Bama

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Re: Spring Practice Thread (Interviews, Press Conferences, Practice Reports)

Jameis Winston and Johnny manziel


And to your list as it pertains to us,no one saw many of those things in a 5th year senior last year, but all this crap about "if it's close give it to the young buck" was the dominating opinion amongst fans. So what has changed?
Both of them were red shirt freshmen. Assuming we're talking about a good school, the list of true freshman who have won jobs outright (instead of replacing an injured starter) must be pretty short.
 

Isaiah 63:1

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Re: Spring Practice Thread (Interviews, Press Conferences, Practice Reports)

Jameis Winston and Johnny manziel
#Fail. Neither could have passed the first test in 4Q's post (leadership). Therefore, unless merely being under Saban's tutelage would have made them into the kind of men the aren't even yet, neither would have quarterbacked a Saban-coached team. Jimbo Fisher and Kevin Sumlin obviously don't incorporate such a test in their QB evaluation.

And yes, I know Saban recruited Winston. That doesn't mean that, had Winston signed with Alabama, he'd ever have led the team onto the field. In fact, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if what steered Winston AWAY from Tuscaloosa was his understanding, on some level, that Saban would demand more character from him than he possessed...
 

81usaf92

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Re: Spring Practice Thread (Interviews, Press Conferences, Practice Reports)

#Fail. Neither could have passed the first test in 4Q's post (leadership). Therefore, unless merely being under Saban's tutelage would have made them into the kind of men the aren't even yet, neither would have quarterbacked a Saban-coached team. Jimbo Fisher and Kevin Sumlin obviously don't incorporate such a test in their QB evaluation.

And yes, I know Saban recruited Winston. That doesn't mean that, had Winston signed with Alabama, he'd ever have led the team onto the field. In fact, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if what steered Winston AWAY from Tuscaloosa was his understanding, on some level, that Saban would demand more character from him than he possessed...
He kept it open because he never said Alabama, he said show me a freshman that possessed those things. He slammed the people of the Barnett poll earlier so I thought he was referring to them since he didn't indicate "true" freshman. I'm not going to get into "what would Winston have done at Alabama" because it would lead to nowhere,but to say he wasn't a leader on the field is ludicrous.Winston only lost one game in his career, and more times than not he was the reason they won. Off the field issues aside, it's hard to say he wasn't a leader on the field. Off the field you have a point.

My issue is that the same people that were so sure that Nick Saban would never go for a seemingly risky qb like Coker, and the staff should give it to one of the young bucks if it is close are now saying the opposite because the opposite happened to their opinion last year. If it is because the experienced senior started the last two years over the talented new guy, then you need to look closer at the race. Sims won it because he was closer to what CLK needs with his release and skill. Coker wasn't the typical kiffin qb, but he was the best we had last year. Point is, it is very plausible to think Barnett or Cornwell's talent could ultimately decide the outcome in the fall over Bateman's experience and practice work ethic.
 
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4Q Basket Case

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Re: Spring Practice Thread (Interviews, Press Conferences, Practice Reports)

My point was and still is that it's about impossible for a freshman (redshirt or otherwise) to deliver what Saban asks of a QB. Johnny Manziel was no leader, and would never have both pulled the shenanigans he did and played for Saban.

Additionally, that offense doesn't demand the reads and recognition that Saban's does. It demands athletic ability, which Manziel certainly has. But due to the same traits that would have prevented his playing at Alabama, he's flushing it down the toilet.

Winston is more of a valid observation, but as to the reads and recognitions, not the leadership. His criminal behavior would not have been covered up by the TPD, and he would have been suspended or kicked off the team altogether well before the judicial process ran its course.

Either way, Winston would not have been the abysmal example he was and gotten playing time in Tuscaloosa.

If your point is that freshmen can have good years playing college football, I agree. But it you're saying that they can deliver what Saban demands of the position, and using Johnny Manziel and Jameis Winston as examples...well, I just don't see it that way.

Upperclassmen tend to start for Saban, not because he plays favorites, but because they're infinitely better equipped to deliver what he demands. IF(a huge two letters) a freshman who does that comes along, he'll play. I just don't see that happening.
 
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CrimsonForce

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Re: Spring Practice Thread (Interviews, Press Conferences, Practice Reports)

I understand that Barnett and Cornwell were both 5* guys and Bateman was a 4* recruit but I just want to mention this because it seems some folks think there's a big dropoff in talent when comparing Barnett and Cornwell to Bateman. Bateman had a scout grade of 87. He was the #1 player in state of Utah and #44 overall in the ESPN300. He's 6'4 200+lbs and runs the 40 in the 4.6 range. There isn't a lack of talent when it comes to Bateman. The only area where I would say the other 2 have more talent than Bateman is arm talent. However, it's not like Bateman has a weak arm that's incapable of running the offense and making throws down the field. Just wanted to mention those few things because some folks are talking about Bateman's talent level like he's a walk-on..
 

BamaMoon

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Re: Spring Practice Thread (Interviews, Press Conferences, Practice Reports)

I think Krazy did a good job of explaining why so many want Barnett to win the job.

Keep in mind no Bama fan in his right mind wants a QB who can't win and of course we want the one who will give us the best chance to win. But that poll isn't really asking that.

So back to Barnett, we fans develop opinions about who we THINK will give us the best chance to win so that is all the poll mentioned earlier is measuring.

Barnett not only went to the Elite 11 QB Camp, but he also WON it. That's were the hype is for him.
 

CrimsonForce

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Re: Spring Practice Thread (Interviews, Press Conferences, Practice Reports)

I think Krazy did a good job of explaining why so many want Barnett to win the job.

Keep in mind no Bama fan in his right mind wants a QB who can't win and of course we want the won who will give us the best chance to win.

So back to Barnett, we fans develop opinions about who we THINK will give us the best chance to win so that is all the poll mentioned earlier is measuring.

Barnett not only went to the Elite 11 QB Camp, but he also WON it. That's were the hype is for him.
I'm not trying to diminish that achievement at all but it isn't the Elite 11 QB camp 7 v 7 drills (in shorts and T-shirts) meaning no offensive or defensive lines? The QBs in those drills aren't throwing or performing under the pressure of facing a real defense. It's still a great accomplishment but I'm not sure how much that translates to being a QB in shoulder pads, helmets and facing a live pass rush. Also, does anyone know the past winners of the Elite 11 QB camp? It would be interesting to see how successful the past winners were in college..
 

RTR91

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Re: Spring Practice Thread (Interviews, Press Conferences, Practice Reports)

I understand that Barnett and Cornwell were both 5* guys and Bateman was a 4* recruit but I just want to mention this because it seems some folks think there's a big dropoff in talent when comparing Barnett and Cornwell to Bateman. Bateman had a scout grade of 87. He was the #1 player in state of Utah and #44 overall in the ESPN300. He's 6'4 200+lbs and runs the 40 in the 4.6 range. There isn't a lack of talent when it comes to Bateman. The only area where I would say the other 2 have more talent than Bateman is arm talent. However, it's not like Bateman has a weak arm that's incapable of running the offense and making throws down the field. Just wanted to mention those few things because some folks are talking about Bateman's talent level like he's a walk-on..
If anyone thinks Cooper Bateman isn't athletic, they need to remember what position he played last Spring. As you said, Bateman's arm talent is not the same as Cornwell's (possibly BB8's), but that doesn't meant he can't be a very good QB for this team.
 

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