2016 Season QB Thread

bamamc1

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Re: 2016 Season QB Thread (Moved QB Posts from Practice Thread)

I've said this a lot of times: As long as CLK is here, we will have a QB. He's produced 2 pretty good ones since he came on board.
 

KrAzY3

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Re: 2016 Season QB Thread (Moved QB Posts from Practice Thread)

So far, Saban has been deafeningly silent in that. Which means that if someone else is actually outperforming Bateman, but Bateman is nevertheless getting all the public notice, Saban is playing games and jerking around both that guy and Bateman.
Or, we could just be way over-analyzing Saban's comments. There's a lot of hyperbole there. "deafeningly silent", and "jerking around". What is really happening is Alabama fans are hyper-fixated on every little thing and they overreact constantly to the most subtle things.

Let's go over a few of things that transpired over the years. Keep in mind I'm not just talking about your comments. There were those who swore up and down on these forums, that despite Blake Sims being #2, Phillip Ely was in fact the super secret backup and if AJ had to come out Ely would be the guy. They swore that right up until he transferred out. Then, they continued the same thing with Alec... sure Blake was the #2 but really Alec was the guy because reasons.

Coker was viewed by some as one of the top NFL prospects at QB before he ever started a game. Of course he was going to come in and take the starting job, and the truth is he had a shot at that. But it didn't happen. When people started to waver a bit though even true freshman Cornwell was floated as a possibility, at that point no reason other than he was not Blake Sims (who some claimed was utterly incapable of throwing the long pass). I will interject here though that even I bought into the notion that Coker seemed like the likely starter, and even Saban himself said after the fact that at one point Coker was in the lead. It just goes to show you how fluid these things are and how pointless trying to make predictions ends up being.

Now last year turned into a real circus, with someone tried out as a receiver ending up back in the picture, some touting a true freshman (again), and even Alec's name being brought up again. Things changed weekly it seemed, with a contingent of Bateman, Cornwell, Coker, Barnett and Morris supporters tending on the current mood. I for one consistently shot down the notion of Cornwell or Barnett, feeling both were inexperienced. This year, we have heard positives and negatives about everyone of the four candidates (we've also seen claims that proved false, like the idea that Bateman was faster than Hurts). We've seen scrimmage stats, we've seen A-Day, and yes Bateman appears to be leader by default thus far. But really what does all of this tell us?

It doesn't tell us much. In a quarterback battle, Saban is willing to go into the regular season to find out who the starter is. He doesn't know who the guy is right now, nor does anyone else. We can only attempt to predict what will happen next, but it can be done with no more certainty than predicting who will win game 6 of the NBA Finals. It is just something to do in the off season.
 
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BamaInBham

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Re: 2016 Season QB Thread (Moved QB Posts from Practice Thread)

Actually, according to Al.com, I guess from Bama's staff, Bateman is faster than Hurts and all other current Bama QB's: Bateman 4.59, Hurts 4.65, Barnett 4.87.

I was the one who originally said that Bateman was the fastest. Then I retracted that after i watched the A-Day broadcast which said that Hurts ran a 4.5. My guess is they meant in the 4.5 range. This differed from ESPN's publically posted time of 4.85. So, I retracted my original claim in that thread. Subsequent to that I read the al.com article referenced above.

In my original post regarding this subject I was merely trying to encourage those fans who felt that Bateman was athetically inferior to the other QB's, as well as refute the contention that Hurts was more highly recruited than Bateman, when in reality the reverse was true. (In reality, comparing the rankings from one year to the next is difficult since it is a number relative to a different set of recruits.)

Finally, as far as 40 speed goes, even though it is interesting and relevant, there are a number of other components that are far more important, especially for a QB.
 

Intl.Aperture

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Re: 2016 Season QB Thread (Moved QB Posts from Practice Thread)

Finally, as far as 40 speed goes, even though it is interesting and relevant, there are a number of other components that are far more important, especially for a QB.
Elusiveness and agility. We see that Hurts has it. Witnessed in on A-Day to an extent and the fact that the coaching staff tabbed him as scout team QB for Deshaun Watson.

Not enough data compiled on the rest to really say. Though I don't think Cornwell will prove to be slippery in the least. Just a guess.
 

KrAzY3

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Re: 2016 Season QB Thread (Moved QB Posts from Practice Thread)

Finally, as far as 40 speed goes, even though it is interesting and relevant, there are a number of other components that are far more important, especially for a QB.
To acknowledge one thing, there are listed 40 times which have Bateman as faster, but there are wild inconsistencies there as well. The MPH chart posted showed Hurts in the top ten and Bateman was not, so that should give us official verification, I wasn't saying you were intentionally misleading (we didn't have that data yet, we don't have a lot of data yet which is kind of the point). I left the last part of what you said in though because that is important. The QB battle will not come down purely to running ability, but speed aside it is clear Hurts is a better runner. There are more components to a QB than running, but there are more components to a good runner than speed.

Edit: By the way here's the list, posted after your comments so you couldn't have been aware of it:
http://www.tidefans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=268707
 
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JustNeedMe81

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Phil Savage on Cooper Bateman

Click here

I'm not trying to start another thread where there will be long qb discussions. I just thought it was interesting comment he made regarding Bateman.
According to Savage, Bateman had no trouble over the weekend completing short or intermediate passes but still struggled connecting with the long ball. Like Savage pointed out, that’s one of the reasons Coker got the starting job over Bateman. During the weekend competition, Savage said that Bateman’s passes over 25-yards started to fall apart. He believes that the decision to start Bateman will come down to if the Alabama coaching staff trusts Bateman to get the ball down the field.
 

BamaMoon

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Re: 2016 Season QB Thread (Moved QB Posts from Practice Thread)

Just read a 247 article about Cooper Bateman attending the Manning Passing Academy. Phil Savage had some good things to say about Bateman and thinks the Mannings will help him.

He said he seemed to be "pretty good" with the short throws, however, he did say that "Anything beyond 25 yards though, the ball seems to come apart on him..." I'd interpret that mean that he throws a pretty weak, wobbling pass at that distance and beyond.

Furthermore, he said the biggest question he thought Bama coaches would have is his ability to stretch the field with passes beyond 20 yards.

I imagine that'll be the way defenses will game plan too.

https://twitter.com/BamaOnline247/status/747774152203993088
 

BamaMoon

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Re: Phil Savage on Cooper Bateman

Click here

I'm not trying to start another thread where there will be long qb discussions. I just thought it was interesting comment he made regarding Bateman.
We must have been posting about the same time. I actually started my post and had to stop and do something else for about 10 minutes before I could finish and post.

Nonetheless, in a slow time for football news, I thought Savages remarks were noteworthy.
 

JustNeedMe81

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Re: Phil Savage on Cooper Bateman

We must have been posting about the same time. I actually started my post and had to stop and do something else for about 10 minutes before I could finish and post.

Nonetheless, in a slow time for football news, I thought Savages remarks were noteworthy.
It was interesting because the way the ball comes apart after 25 yards. I don't think I've ever seen one like that. If bateman can master throwing down the field, The better it is for Alabama football. I've been wondering about summer workout and whos doing well and etc.
 

4Q Basket Case

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Re: Phil Savage on Cooper Bateman

We must have been posting about the same time. I actually started my post and had to stop and do something else for about 10 minutes before I could finish and post.

Nonetheless, in a slow time for football news, I thought Savages remarks were noteworthy.
Agreed. If Bateman can't stretch the field, that's a real limiting factor in playcalling. On top of that, it's something the defenses can discount, put an extra man in the box (and maybe cheat another), making it really hard to run.

So the question then becomes whether his other strengths outweigh this significant limitation. Or maybe he can develop to the point that it's not a limitation. But there's not much time for that. This could tip the scale in someone else's favor.
 

AlexanderFan

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Re: 2016 Season QB Thread (Moved QB Posts from Practice Thread)

If that is the case our offense will resemble the offense with JPW at the helm. Stack the box on D, force us to run block with the tight end and hope the receivers can get separation in a short field.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

BamaMoon

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Re: Phil Savage on Cooper Bateman

Agreed. If Bateman can't stretch the field, that's a real limiting factor in playcalling. On top of that, it's something the defenses can discount, put an extra man in the box (and maybe cheat another), making it really hard to run.

So the question then becomes whether his other strengths outweigh this significant limitation. Or maybe he can develop to the point that it's not a limitation. But there's not much time for that. This could tip the scale in someone else's favor.
Yes, and Savage also noted that Jake Coker's ability to stretch the field with his strong arm was a significant reason he won the job and was successful last year too.

I still think this perceived weakness in Bateman is Barnett's window to winning the job IF Barnett can learn to protect the ball instead of throwing INTs.
 

JustNeedMe81

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Re: 2016 Season QB Thread (Moved QB Posts from Practice Thread)

If that is the case our offense will resemble the offense with JPW at the helm. Stack the box on D, force us to run block with the tight end and hope the receivers can get separation in a short field.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
With all due respect.. I'm not sure if that's what Kiffin would do... Kiffin is good at working around a QB's weakness.
 

JustNeedMe81

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Re: Phil Savage on Cooper Bateman

Yes, and Savage also noted that Jake Coker's ability to stretch the field with his strong arm was a significant reason he won the job and was successful last year too.

I still think this perceived weakness in Bateman is Barnett's window to winning the job IF Barnett can learn to protect the ball instead of throwing INTs.
Fall camp will say a lot. We'll know more about who moves up and moves down the QB depth chart. Was it Bateman that moved up in fall camp to be no. 2? We could in theory see Cornwell, Barnett, Hurt moving up... WE just don't know. It sounds like Bateman has to improve his throwing down the field before he get the job.
 

gtgilbert

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Re: 2016 Season QB Thread (Moved QB Posts from Practice Thread)

If that is the case our offense will resemble the offense with JPW at the helm. Stack the box on D, force us to run block with the tight end and hope the receivers can get separation in a short field.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Or it will look a lot like it looked with Blake Sims, who also didn't have a great long ball. Sims had a super fast release so was great at the bubble screens b/c the WR got the ball fast and could make a move - this still stretched the field, just horizonatally instead of vertically. Coker had a great long ball, but was horrible on the WR screens since he had a much slower release so we ran a lot less of this. Kiffin will figure out the best plan to use the skills we have. I'm confident of that.
 

TheTradition

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Re: 2016 Season QB Thread (Moved QB Posts from Practice Thread)

Or it will look a lot like it looked with Blake Sims, who also didn't have a great long ball. Sims had a super fast release so was great at the bubble screens b/c the WR got the ball fast and could make a move - this still stretched the field, just horizonatally instead of vertically. Coker had a great long ball, but was horrible on the WR screens since he had a much slower release so we ran a lot less of this. Kiffin will figure out the best plan to use the skills we have. I'm confident of that.
Sims threw a fantastic deep ball, probably the best of the Saban era IMO.
 

RTR91

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Re: 2016 Season QB Thread (Moved QB Posts from Practice Thread)

Let's not forget who was catching those long balls. Cooper made Sims look better than he was.
I don't recall Cooper slowing down for many (if any) of Blake's throws. I do recall him doing it with AJ, though. That's a good example of a WR making the QB look better.
 

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