"The problem with (projected first-round Alabama players in the NFL draft) is..."

TitleWave · Apr 29, 2016

"The problem with (projected first-round Alabama players in the NFL draft) is..."

Is this a load of...codswallop?

Bob McGinn, Milwaukee Journal Sentinel wrote:
The problem with both Robinson and Reed in the eyes of some scouts is they're from Alabama, which means their bodies have been worked to the maximum in coach Nick Saban's physically stressful program.

So instead of being NFL-shovel ready, plug-and-play, their and other expected 'Bama draft choices' bodies are now maxed out and already on the downhill road that follows the law of gravity? Seems to me these scouts are positing some mendacious malarkey disseminated by half of The Bear's theory of objectivity ("Here's a twenty - bury two of 'em.")

Bamabuzzard · Apr 29, 2016

Re: "The problem with (projected first-round Alabama players in the NFL draft) is..."

Doesn't matter whether it's actually true or not it's what's being said in NFL football circles. I've now heard or read this I can't tell you how many times about what "scouts are saying about Alabama players...". My guess is after last night's showing or lack there of in round one there must be something to it. I was shocked Robinson, Reed nor Ragland went in round 1. Kelly was the only Bama player picked.

crimsonaudio · Apr 29, 2016

Re: "The problem with (projected first-round Alabama players in the NFL draft) is..."

Zero chance Alabama works players harder than the NFL - it's why virtually every stud player from Bama gets even bigger in the pros.

TUSKtimes · Apr 29, 2016

Re: "The problem with (projected first-round Alabama players in the NFL draft) is..."

crimsonaudio said:
Zero chance Alabama works players harder than the NFL - it's why virtually every stud player from Bama gets even bigger in the pros.

Definitely must be happening at practice. Not up to the math, but I would guess our defensive lineman actually play less reps than most starters.

KrAzY3 · Apr 29, 2016

Re: "The problem with (projected first-round Alabama players in the NFL draft) is..."

There is a point in which SEC play, and a 15 game season does start to take a toll. I've argued that all along, these players are pushed to the max and there's only so much they can take. I was against the extra playoff game, and the am against a 9th SEC game along those lines. How much is too much? I'd be happier without the extra game, I know that much. The NCAA might want to rethink that 12th game sooner or later as well.

Having said that! I think we are talking about primarily short-term issues. There might be some things that have to heal, but I just don't see any meaningful indication that players coming out of Alabama's system somehow have a shorter lifespan in the NFL. If anything, Alabama seems to have more depth and more guys who only started for one year that still end up in the NFL. I think there is some misinformation, and misconception going around about Alabama players but I'm not sure why exactly. The fact that Ryan Kelly ended up having his stock rise, while others had their stock fall seems to point to some reason other than concern over wear and tear.

rgw · Apr 29, 2016

Re: "The problem with (projected first-round Alabama players in the NFL draft) is..."

Don't buy anything said during this time of year. It is all posturing. There will be a lot of Bama players going to teams today and most will end up being starters. The first round is just an arbitrary cut off line on "elite" players invented by the media. The NFL GMs expect to get starter-quality players into the 3rd round (usually the top 100 players or so). While the lower draft selection means less money, it also gives the player an earlier opportunity at the market to make FA money. Ragland kinda got a screw job last night but it is pretty common for ILBs to fall into the 2nd day and I have no doubt that in 4 years he will be inking a huge deal with even more guaranteed money.

And I've said this before: Reed and Robinson just weren't first round quality players if you have any context on how how draft valuation works. They aren't proven pass rushers and really seem to be scheme limited in terms of viability for the NFL game. The capacity for pass rush development is a valid point in the recruiting process out of high school but this is the professional game and they're drafting for day 1 performance not development in the first 100 or so picks. They're two-gap, run-stopping defensive linemen built for a 34 defense and that specialty has rarely had 1st round value unless they're transcendent talent: JJ Watt, Marcel Dareus, etc.

CrimsonForce · Apr 29, 2016

Re: "The problem with (projected first-round Alabama players in the NFL draft) is..."

I'm sorry but I find that reasoning to be hogwash. There's a simple reason that Reed and Robinson didn't go first round and that's because they aren't pass rushers. Run stuffing and space eating defensive tackles just don't go in the first round anymore. Ragland didn't go first round because of the very late health news that was spread the day before the draft. Has 0 to do with Alabama working their players to hard. Also, these things are cyclical. Alabama has led in total picks and first round picks since 2008. It's just not possible to have the most first round picks every year. Next year we have several guys who are first round locks in Allen, Williams and Cam. Possible 1st rounders in Foster, Howard, Jackson and Hand. I'm as disappointed as anybody but saying that there's something wrong with Alabama's training program because we only had one first rounder is absurd. If Henry, Reed, Robinson and Ragland all go 2nd round then we'll have 5 of the top 64 players drafted..

BamaMoon · Apr 29, 2016

Re: "The problem with (projected first-round Alabama players in the NFL draft) is..."

Well, apparently it was a "deep" DT class.

I was shocked when the DT from LA Tech was taken above ARob and Reed, but it's also a stark reminder that the NFL draft is about individual players removed from team accomplishments.

One of the guys said that DT is aruguably the best in the draft.

We probably are just looking at it too subjectively through our Crimson eyes.

rgw · Apr 29, 2016

Re: "The problem with (projected first-round Alabama players in the NFL draft) is..."

When Alabama has 4-6 first rounders next year, I don't think any GMs will be too worried about how hard they were worked in college. They draft to talent valuation and needs. Alabama's available players just didn't have the right positions relative to the needs or skill-sets relative to valuation. Kelly was a lock to be a first round pick even though he's probably the 2nd or 3rd best player to come out of Alabama this year because there was some significant center needs on the board. This is how it goes and I'm not going to pull the "this guy got disrespected card" until they fall to the 4th or later.

Displaced Bama Fan · Apr 29, 2016

Re: "The problem with (projected first-round Alabama players in the NFL draft) is..."

Nick Saban's players suck so bad in the NFL they get contract extensions.

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2016/02/24/49ers-give-dt-quinton-dial-3-year-contract-extension/

Bamabuzzard · Apr 29, 2016

Re: "The problem with (projected first-round Alabama players in the NFL draft) is..."

CrimsonForce said:
I'm sorry but I find that reasoning to be hogwash. There's a simple reason that Reed and Robinson didn't go first round and that's because they aren't pass rushers. Run stuffing and space eating defensive tackles just don't go in the first round anymore. Ragland didn't go first round because of the very late health news that was spread the day before the draft. Has 0 to do with Alabama working their players to hard. Also, these things are cyclical. Alabama has led in total picks and first round picks since 2008. It's just not possible to have the most first round picks every year. Next year we have several guys who are first round locks in Allen, Williams and Cam. Possible 1st rounders in Foster, Howard, Jackson and Hand. I'm as disappointed as anybody but saying that there's something wrong with Alabama's training program because we only had one first rounder is absurd. If Henry, Reed, Robinson and Ragland all go 2nd round then we'll have 5 of the top 64 players drafted..

Being a Raiders fan they passed on Ragland because of his "lack of speed" in pass coverage. They love his intelligence and that he's a "thumper". But when watching film they were a bit turned off by his lack of speed in coverage. Since he's dropped to the second round and the Raiders pick 14, if he's still there they very well may snatch him up. At that stage of the draft he's a value pick.

BamaMoon · Apr 29, 2016

Re: "The problem with (projected first-round Alabama players in the NFL draft) is..."

It's also obvious the NFL is an offensive league and that defense is of secondary iimportance to some teams.

Dallas is a great example. They needed help on the defensive side and what do they do with their first pick? Take a running back instead of helping their D.

CajunCrimson · Apr 29, 2016

Re: "The problem with (projected first-round Alabama players in the NFL draft) is..."

Well, then Auburn must REALLY REALLY work them hard.....that's why the NFL is staying so far away.

CajunCrimson · Apr 29, 2016

Re: "The problem with (projected first-round Alabama players in the NFL draft) is..."

BamaMoon said:
It's also obvious the NFL is an offensive league and that defense is of secondary iimportance to some teams.

Dallas is a great example. They needed help on the defensive side and what do they do with their first pick? Take a running back instead of helping their D.

The NFL is a league that works in cycles -- over the next 2-3 years you will see the FB move back to a position of need - as well as the run stopping NT -- because as the rules and players adapt to the changes.....someone will come back and attack the defenses weakness -- which will be in stopping the run --

rgw · Apr 29, 2016

Re: "The problem with (projected first-round Alabama players in the NFL draft) is..."

Pass rush and coverage is at a premium right now in the NFL...and most are copycatting the big outside corner model of the the Seahawks.

LA4Bama · Apr 29, 2016

Re: "The problem with (projected first-round Alabama players in the NFL draft) is..."

rgw said:
Don't buy anything said during this time of year. It is all posturing. There will be a lot of Bama players going to teams today and most will end up being starters. The first round is just an arbitrary cut off line on "elite" players invented by the media. The NFL GMs expect to get starter-quality players into the 3rd round (usually the top 100 players or so). While the lower draft selection means less money, it also gives the player an earlier opportunity at the market to make FA money. Ragland kinda got a screw job last night but it is pretty common for ILBs to fall into the 2nd day and I have no doubt that in 4 years he will be inking a huge deal with even more guaranteed money.

And I've said this before: Reed and Robinson just weren't first round quality players if you have any context on how how draft valuation works. They aren't proven pass rushers and really seem to be scheme limited in terms of viability for the NFL game. The capacity for pass rush development is a valid point in the recruiting process out of high school but this is the professional game and they're drafting for day 1 performance not development in the first 100 or so picks. They're two-gap, run-stopping defensive linemen built for a 34 defense and that specialty has rarely had 1st round value unless they're transcendent talent: JJ Watt, Marcel Dareus, etc.

I am confused by this idea. Lot's of scouts had them as first round talent, not just first round picks. If they aren't first round caliber, how did Robinson get a first round grade? I'm not asking how a guy with a first round grade slips to the second but rather how a guy who's a second round talent gets a first round grade if he's not, especially as a junior.

crimsonaudio · Apr 29, 2016

Re: "The problem with (projected first-round Alabama players in the NFL draft) is..."

LA4Bama said:
I am confused by this idea. Lot's of scouts had them as first round talent, not just first round picks. If they aren't first round caliber, how did Robinson get a first round grade? I'm not asking how a guy with a first round grade slips to the second but rather how a guy who's a second round talent gets a first round grade if he's not, especially as a junior.

I believe more than 32 players receive first round grades.

Each NFL team has their own metrics they use. It's akin to why Saban doesn't offer every 5* player he scouts.

rgw · Apr 29, 2016

Re: "The problem with (projected first-round Alabama players in the NFL draft) is..."

Robinson didn't request a grade from the advisory board to open up more opportunities for other junior players on the team. He went solely on Saban's back-channel advisement of contacts.

Simply put it is uncommon for players with Robinson's profile to go in the first round. Suh and Fairley who were dominant interior pass rushers are the typical first round DT types. Pass rush and coverage is the premium of today's defensive draft value. Run-stuffers are devalued right now.

TitleWave · Apr 29, 2016

Re: "The problem with (projected first-round Alabama players in the NFL draft) is..."

rgw said:
...Run-stuffers are devalued right now.

Inarguably true, yet if I may undigress, Teddy Thompson, with a proven history of drafting Pac-12 busts (save for Rodgers), took the 20-year-old UCLA DT with the pick (that ought've been Ragland) because he was quote-unquote the best run-stopper in the draft and a position of need for GB's 3-4 since BJ Raji bid adieu last month. Let's see if Thompson's insight on this pick "pays off" as in GB offloading another first-rounder to the waiver wire in two years...Not a scout but would've taken A-Shawn in a heartbeat for his athleticism over Clark, the GB draftee.

rgw · Apr 29, 2016

Re: "The problem with (projected first-round Alabama players in the NFL draft) is..."

Green Bay just made a seemingly bad pick...can't really argue on those. They liked that guy for whatever reason and got really concerned about the hole Raji left.

"The problem with (projected first-round Alabama players in the NFL draft) is..."

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