The Sun Belt screwed up by dropping New Mexico State football, but what else is new

Crimson1967

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The Big Ten dropped FCS games when they added a 9th conference game, so it really didn't do anything for G5 schools. If anything it reduced how many games they get since some Big Ten teams may have not been playing FCS teams.


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KrAzY3

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The Big Ten dropped FCS games when they added a 9th conference game, so it really didn't do anything for G5 schools. If anything it reduced how many games they get since some Big Ten teams may have not been playing FCS teams.
Here's the thing though, it's hard to encourage teams to go down to the FCS where they belong, while at the same time telling them the only way you'll ever schedule them (and give them a payday) is if they stay in the FBS...
 

KrAzY3

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Seems like there should be another tier between FBS and FCS.
That's one of the things that probably needs to happen. But, before that the FBS needs to raise their standards somewhat. For instance if they went to 20K minimum attendance or 90 scholarships, it might push the issue a bit and allow some separation.
 

Crimson1967

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I post on a board related to FCS football and you might be surprised to learn many agree that a division between the P5 and FCS would be a good idea.

There isn't a lot of difference between FBS and FCS, structure-wise. Both have about the same number of teams but not everyone is as committed as others.

The big issue seems to be playoffs. The Ivy League does not participate because they are too good for them. In fairness, the Ivy fans who post aren't any happier about it any anyone else on there. Then the two HBCU leagues don't participate because they have a special bowl game between the champions of the two leagues.

Then there is the Pioneer League. They do not offer football scholarships. They play FCS football because the NCAA won't let them play DIII football and be DI in everything else. There is another league that only offers 40 instead of 63 scholarships and yet another who caps them at 60.

So really only about half the FCS takes it seriously, kind of like the FBS. A number of schools have moved up to FBS and some see it as watered down with schools like App State and Georgia Southern having moved on.

I agree some sort of division for the FCS teams that aren't on the P5 level and the FCS ones that actually care is warranted. I think it may come about if the P5 and G5 gap continues to grow.

Raising the attendance level to 20,000 would be pointless. Right now it is 15,000 and they don't enforce it. Teams find ways around it either through creative counting (such as including the band in attendance), selling tickets to sponsors or boosters for a very reduced rate or just making numbers up. Even if they gave an honest count, the NCAA isn't going to kick someone out of FBS, never have and never will.
 

KrAzY3

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Raising the attendance level to 20,000 would be pointless. Right now it is 15,000 and they don't enforce it. Teams find ways around it either through creative counting (such as including the band in attendance), selling tickets to sponsors or boosters for a very reduced rate or just making numbers up. Even if they gave an honest count, the NCAA isn't going to kick someone out of FBS, never have and never will.
Pointless under the current NCAA lack of enforcement yes, not at all if they actually enforced it. It would put programs like South Alabama (16K attendance, what happened to the whole they'd get good support nonsense? Attendance went down), Kent State (12K attendance), Georgia St. (10K), Eastern Michigan (4K?), and Ball St. (8K) on notice that they might be in over their heads. Yes, the NCAA would have to actually enforce the rule though and they have refused to, may be we should convince them textbooks are involved somehow.

That does get into part of the problem though, I still believe the NCAA got it into their heads that if they completely polluted the FBS they could somehow gain greater control. When scholarship limits dropped there were less than 100 FBS programs and they let a steady stream of garbage programs in after that. It kind of makes sense, because if the have nots could outnumber the haves, hypothetically that would take power away from the producers in the sport and allow the NCAA to emerge as a more powerful entity like they are in basketball. What ever their reasons, they have made a mess and a joke of things. If you can't even get 10,000 people to watch your FBS program play, not only are you a joke as a program but you are an embarrassment and a liability to the division.
 
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DzynKingRTR

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Pointless under the current NCAA lack of enforcement yes, not at all if they actually enforced it. It would put programs like South Alabama (16K attendance, what happened to the whole they'd get good support nonsense? Attendance went down), Kent State (12K attendance), Georgia St. (10K), Eastern Michigan (4K?), and Ball St. (8K) on notice that they might be in over their heads. Yes, the NCAA would have to actually enforce the rule though and they have refused to, may be we should convince them textbooks are involved somehow.

That does get into part of the problem though, I still believe the NCAA got it into their heads that if they completely polluted the FBS they could somehow gain greater control. When scholarship limits dropped there were less than 100 FBS programs and they let a steady stream of garbage programs in after that. It kind of makes sense, because if the have nots could outnumber the haves, hypothetically that would take power away from the producers in the sport and allow the NCAA to emerge as a more powerful entity like they are in basketball. What ever their reasons, they have made a mess and a joke of things. If you can't even get 10,000 people to watch your FBS program play, not only are you a joke as a program but you are an embarrassment and a liability to the division.
Georgia State is the largest university in the state and it is odd that they cannot get more people to go to their games. Maybe that will change when they build the new stadium from the old Braves stadium?
 

KrAzY3

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Georgia State is the largest university in the state and it is odd that they cannot get more people to go to their games. Maybe that will change when they build the new stadium from the old Braves stadium?
I don't find it odd at all. Is it odd for a minor league team to have poor attendance? Honestly I think the odd thing all along was the silly notion that just starting up a football program in the heart of SEC territory was going to divert a meaningful amount of attention. These programs lack any real history or support, they're just doing it because they can, and often with delusions of grandeur. The actual support is laughable with rare exception. Go around asking people in Georgia or Alabama who their favorite football program is. You're not going to have many people answer that it's South Alabama or Georgia St. We're not going to stop watching SEC games to go watch those teams play are we?

To give an example, the C-USA averaged 20K attendance, the Sun Belt averaged 17K attendance, and the MAC averaged 15K attendance. Bear in mind some of these numbers are still being cooked to comply with NCAA requirements (which are not enforced anyway).
 

Redwood Forrest

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I wonder if KrAzY3's theory of diluting the FBS in attempt to "take over" is why the NCAA keeps adding bowls. If the bowls began floundering then the NCAA could step in, like BB, and run the show.
 

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