Cam Robinson Arrested (UPDATE: No charges due to lack of evidence)

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Cruiser

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Re: Cam Robinson Arrested

There's no obligation to register private purchases of firearms. Is it possible you mean lying on a background check or making a purchase on behalf of someone who would not pass a background check?

There is an obligation to not steal them from other people. My question is, what led them to apply the charge of possession of a stolen firearm in the first place?
They ran the serial number and it had been reported stolen and it was in their car; DUH. Thus the charge; now in order for the stolen firearm charge to stick, they have to be able to prove they knew or should have known it was stolen
 
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efd840

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Re: Cam Robinson Arrested

Proving that the individual stole or knowingly purchased a stolen weapon is damn near impossible. Short of them saying "yeah I knew this was hot" they don't really have much to go on other than - forgive me for an inexact name for it - improper registration of a private purchase of a firearm.
That's not how the law works. The gun was stolen and he had it. Those are the elements of the crime. They don't have to prove he knew it was stolen.

He has a chance to present evidence that he didn't know our shouldn't have assumed it was stolen. The easiest way would be the identity of the person he bought it from and some proof that he paid a reasonable amount.

There's no obligation to register private purchases of firearms. Is it possible you mean lying on a background check or making a purchase on behalf of someone who would not pass a background check?

There is an obligation to not steal them from other people. My question is, what led them to apply the charge of possession of a stolen firearm in the first place?
Maybe the fact that he had the gun and it was stolen?

When a gun is reported stolen, the serial number and other information is entered into NCIC just like driver's license and car tag information. When police officers find a weapon at a crime scene (and this was a crime scene), pretty much the first thing they do after securing it is run the serial number to see if it comes back as stolen.

How this played out isn't nearly as complicated as people are trying to make it out to be.
 

cbi1972

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Re: Cam Robinson Arrested

How this played out isn't nearly as complicated as people are trying to make it out to be.
It's not so much complicated as not elaborated on in the article, leaving me to speculate. For all I know, they could all have denied ownership, and the default action of the police then would be to declare it stolen, just to have lots of charges that would be dismissed later if necessary. Thanks for spelling it out, though. Now my question is how much effort are we expected to go through when buying firearms to be sure they aren't stolen? I know I don't bother verifying that. I just pay and receive.
 

JustNeedMe81

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Re: Cam Robinson Arrested

That's not how the law works. The gun was stolen and he had it. Those are the elements of the crime. They don't have to prove he knew it was stolen.

He has a chance to present evidence that he didn't know our shouldn't have assumed it was stolen. The easiest way would be the identity of the person he bought it from and some proof that he paid a reasonable amount.



Maybe the fact that he had the gun and it was stolen?

When a gun is reported stolen, the serial number and other information is entered into NCIC just like driver's license and car tag information. When police officers find a weapon at a crime scene (and this was a crime scene), pretty much the first thing they do after securing it is run the serial number to see if it comes back as stolen.

How this played out isn't nearly as complicated as people are trying to make it out to be.
Did you read the Louisana Law on the gun? IJS, go check it out.
 

efd840

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Re: Cam Robinson Arrested

It's not so much complicated as not elaborated on in the article, leaving me to speculate. For all I know, they could all have denied ownership, and the default action of the police then would be to declare it stolen, just to have lots of charges that would be dismissed later if necessary. Thanks for spelling it out, though. Now my question is how much effort are we expected to go through when buying firearms to be sure they aren't stolen. I know I don't bother verifying that. I just pay and receive.
The police don't "declare something is stolen" and charge a crime without probable cause. That's a guaranteed way to making large payouts from civil claims on a regular basis.

As to how much effort you're expected to go through when buying a gun from a private seller, well, that's really up to how much faith you have in the seller. Since private buyers and sellers don't have access to NCIC, you can't run it like LE does. For starters, buying a gun isn't any different than buying any other item that's a popular target of theft (TV, computer, etc). If the deal sounds too good to be true, it is.

After that, as a buyer the best thing you can do is document the transaction. If you found it through some advertisement like craigslist, print and keep a copy. Also get a bill of sale.

By the way, that's even better advice when you're the seller. Document that sale with paperwork and maybe even a picture id of who bought it from you just in case it should turn up later in some alley alongside a dead body.
 

efd840

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Re: Cam Robinson Arrested

If one of the elements of the crime is that the offender "knew or should have known that the firearm" was stolen, then yes, they have to prove that he knew or should have known that the firearm was stolen. That he can rebut that doesn't lessen the burden of the prosecution to prove it.
Here's the actual law: https://legis.la.gov/legis/Law.aspx?d=78636

§69.1. Illegal possession of stolen firearms
A.(1) Illegal possession of stolen firearms is the intentional possessing, procuring, receiving, or concealing of a firearm which has been the subject of any form of misappropriation.
(2) It shall be an affirmative defense to a prosecution for a violation of this Section that the offender had no knowledge that the firearm was the subject of any form of misappropriation.
(3) It shall be an affirmative defense to a prosecution for a violation of this Section that the alleged offender has or had possession of the firearm pursuant to his regular course of business, is in possession of a valid federal firearms license, is routinely in the possession of firearms for sale, pawn, lease, rent, repair, modification, or other legitimate acts as part of his normal scope of business operations, and is enforcing a privilege pursuant to R.S. 9:4502.
B. Whoever commits the crime of illegal possession of firearms shall be punished as follows:
(1) For a first offense, the penalty shall be imprisonment, with or without hard labor, for not less than one year nor more than five years.
(2) For second and subsequent offenses, the penalty shall be imprisonment, with or without hard labor, for not less than two years nor more than ten years.
Acts 2000, 1st Ex. Sess., No. 116, §1; Acts 2001, No. 403, §1, eff. June 15, 2001; Acts 2014, No. 141, §1.

Lack of knowledge is an affirmative defense. The burden is on Cam, not the State of Louisiana.
 
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efd840

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If there was a gun in the car, and he said to each person is that your gun and each of them denied it, I would not be surprised at an initial charge of possessing a stolen hand gun until things are sorted out. They didn't arrest them while they were taking one-legged orphans to the park. They already had probable cause to arrest, and adding a charge that was later dropped would have no impact whatsoever vis-a-vis a lawsuit.
Charging someone with possessing a 'stolen' gun that you had no proof was actually stolen would be the problem. Having probable cause to arrest for misdemeanor possession isn't the same as making a felony arrest for a non-existent stolen weapon.

In the case you described, they'd simply take possession of the gun that nobody claimed and file charges later if it turned out to be stolen.
 

B1GTide

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Re: Cam Robinson Arrested

Legalities aside, how are these two young men going to convince Saban that they had an acceptable reason to be in a parking lot at 2am with guns and weed?
 

B1GTide

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Re: Cam Robinson Arrested

Cam needs a reasonable explanation as to how the gun could have been under his seat without his knowledge. Do we know if Cam was driving his car, or someone else's?
 

efd840

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Sure they would. We'll just agree to disagree on this one and see what the facts show.

As for the crime itself, the one you've pulled is different from the one brought up earlier, but it still requires "intentional" possession, which is more than the gun was stolen and he had it.
I brought up the one I understand Cam's charged under. If that's not it, then everything I said clearly doesn't apply.

I agree that intentional possession is very, very important. I probably should have brought that up. The very best thing in the world would be if Cam was in a vehicle that didn't belong to him and could reasonably assert that he had no idea there was a gun under the seat.
 

cbi1972

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Re: Cam Robinson Arrested

The police don't "declare something is stolen" and charge a crime without probable cause. That's a guaranteed way to making large payouts from civil claims on a regular basis.
Police and prosecutors often treat charges like a handful of wet spaghetti thrown at the wall, and charges are dropped all the time. They will always say they had probable cause. I would hesitate to draw meaningful conclusions based on initial charges.

A year ago this month, Cyrus Jones went through this: Domestic violence charges dropped 2 days after Alabama CB Cyrus Jones arrested

Jones was charged with criminal mischief and harassment (domestic violence) Wednesday morning, but the case ended Friday. According to Tuscaloosa police, charges were dropped because Jones "attempted to deescalate the situation by contacting the Tuscaloosa Police Department."

The city attorney agreed with the decision to dismiss the charges. Tuscaloosa police said there was sufficient probable cause to make the initial arrest.
 

cbi1972

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Re: Cam Robinson Arrested

Cam needs a reasonable explanation as to how the gun could have been under his seat without his knowledge. Do we know if Cam was driving his car, or someone else's?
My guess is he bought it with cash, did not know it was stolen, and either kept it under the seat, or placed it there when apprehended.
 

TideEngineer08

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Re: Cam Robinson Arrested

*Holding my hands in the air to protect myself from the sky that is falling* (blue font)

There is a lot left to learn regarding this situation. I do not disagree with players who have said there are dirty cops in Louisiana. They will never prove Cam knew the gun was stolen OR if he stole it (which I do not think he did). I also do not find anything abnormal about a person of legal age owning a firearm. And I'm pretty neutral on the weed, too, but that's for NS forum. ;)

I would be way more concerned about the face to face meeting with Saban that I am sure is forthcoming. That scares me more than any criminal charge. Haha.

I work with troubled youth and unless you grew up poor and in the projects, meaning you have walked a mile in their shoes, you really have no room to pass judgement.

I hate the offseason. RTR.
So what you're saying is that these tweets from Tim Williams about praying for his brothers was in reference to their future meeting with Coach Saban?

Timmy Soldado@JaYbOi225 6h

6 hours ago
God please watch over my brothers. RTR


6 hours ago
Sometimes god bring you through fire to reach the water of love, peace, and happiness. He is also a forgiving god.

I pray he has mercy

 

B1GTide

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Re: Cam Robinson Arrested

My guess is he bought it with cash, did not know it was stolen, and either kept it under the seat, or placed it there when apprehended.
Here there are laws about registering a hand gun after a purchase like this, so even if he did purchase the gun from someone and can prove it, a failure to register it would suggest guilt. So, assuming that LA has similar laws, he could still be in trouble unless he just purchased the gun - like, within the last few days.
 

efd840

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Nov 23, 2009
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Re: Cam Robinson Arrested

Police and prosecutors often treat charges like a handful of wet spaghetti thrown at the wall, and charges are dropped all the time. They will always say they had probable cause. I would hesitate to draw meaningful conclusions based on initial charges.

A year ago this month, Cyrus Jones went through this: Domestic violence charges dropped 2 days after Alabama CB Cyrus Jones arrested

Different situation. In Cyrus Jones' case, they had probable cause to make an arrest. They didn't make up the thrown and broken phone, but the evidence later demonstrated that while the situation looked bad, he wasn't guilty of a crime.

Once again, that is utterly and completely different that what you proposed - which was that if the police found a gun in a car and nobody claimed it, they would simply "declare" it stolen and arrest someone for having a stolen gun.
 
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