Supremes strike down Texas abortion law 5-3

ValuJet

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The political left loves the sanitized term "pro choice" in favor of the more harsh "abortion."

I just spent the weekend with my nine month old grandson and won't say what I think of abortion. My daughter was also pro choice and chose to give her fetus an alternative to the "medical procedure."
 

bama_wayne1

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yes i read the article you posted. your second sentence is nice framing to try and portray those of us who believe that women should have agency over their own medical decisions as cold, heartless supporters of infanticide.
it's just a sad thing. It would be much better to make the decision not to get impregnated if they don't want a child. With everything that is available to prevent pregnancy from occurring it seems a lazy way to correct a bad personal decision. I'm not trying to be harsh but other than rape just how can you accidently get pregnant?
 

jthomas666

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The political left loves the sanitized term "pro choice" in favor of the more harsh "[pro-]abortion."
No, some of us prefer the more accurate term "pro-choice". And how ironic is it that you promptly go and illustrate my point?

I just spent the weekend with my nine month old grandson and won't say what I think of abortion. My daughter was also pro choice and chose to give her fetus an alternative to the "medical procedure."
Whoa, wait a minute. You're saying that someone can be pro-choice and choose not to have an abortion?!?!

 

CharminTide

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Yeah, not getting into this one again.

I'll just issue my driveby support for this decision. The aim of these laws was transparent from the start and, as confirmed today, completely unconstitutional.
 

92tide

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it's just a sad thing. It would be much better to make the decision not to get impregnated if they don't want a child. With everything that is available to prevent pregnancy from occurring it seems a lazy way to correct a bad personal decision. I'm not trying to be harsh but other than rape just how can you accidently get pregnant?
me, i don't particularly care why someone decides to have an abortion. imo, that decision is between a woman and her doctor. but not every abortion is just a simple matter of convenience, there are many times that abortion is a medical necessity.

personally, i am glad that i was not faced with that choice. we were told point blank by the ob/gyn that if we would have been sitting in their office 20 years prior, they would have recommended terminating the pregnancy due to no chance of survival past a couple of horrific and painful days outside of the womb.
 
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cbi1972

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personally, i am glad that i was not faced with that choice. we were told point blank by the ob/gyn that if we would have been sitting in their office 20 years prior, they would have recommended terminating the pregnancy due to no chance of survival past a couple of horrific and painful days outside of the womb.
I had a sister survive a couple horrific and painful months outside the womb. Doctors did literally everything they could, but eventually they ran out of body parts to intubate. Everybody thinks the end of Old Yeller is sad, but there are a lot worse things that can happen than suddenly ceasing to exist.
 

CajunCrimson

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ah, the left.....

Where Abortions are not immoral, but eating an egg, owning a gun, driving an SUV, and voting for Donald Trump is.....
 

selmaborntidefan

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No one, not even most abortion advocates, like late term abortions. Some of us would be perfectly happy if they never existed at all. But, there is occasionally medical necessity for them. Of course they are also exceptionally rare
Why do you think that is????

This is an issue I tend to stay out of and to me it just doesn't seem to be something where there really is a 'right' answer, merely a 'legal' one. But the cognitive dissonance inherent in whatever position one takes is inherent in this thread.

abortion is not the killing of innocent children. it is a medical procedure where a fetus is removed from the mother's womb.
The rhetoric is good. And it's offset by:

, i am glad that i was not faced with that choice. we were told point blank by the ob/gyn that if we would have been sitting in their office 20 years prior, they would have recommended terminating the pregnancy due to no chance of survival past a couple of horrific and painful days outside of the womb.
But if it's just a tissue removal, this doesn't even matter. People don't act the same way about removal of the appendix, cataracts, or other stuff. Why? Because those 'things' are not even capable of being human lives. And why all the rhetoric about how it should be 'safe, legal, and RARE?' What difference does it make it if's 'rare?'

Of course, the pro-life side has inconsistencies, too, as Trump managed in his own inept way to show when Mathews hounded him. After all, if abortion IS murder then shouldn't the women having them be prosecuted? GHW Bush botched that question in the first debate with Dukakis in 1988, but he got away with it, mostly because despite what you see on TV, abortion is so far down the list on what people vote for in Presidential elections that other than a few loud-mouthed activists on both sides, nobody really cares (in voting terms).

Or what about the Christians who preach incessantly against it.....and then have them? The typical person who has an abortion tends to be a white, middle to upper middle class woman who can afford one. But I do recall an episode of the old "Paul Harvey" show citing a study from 1986 where Catholic women were far more likely to have them than Protestant women. The reason? The Catholic ban on contraception (pardon me for trying to piece together how abortion is any less of a mortal sin that some pills).

Over the years I've reluctantly arrived at the notion (similar to firearms) that people are going to have them anyway and thus it may as well be legal and 'safe.' I DO think they ought to somewhat liberalize adoption laws to offset part of it but whatever.

One final thing: while it sounds REAL good to quote Al Gore's useless rhetoric of "I believe in the right of a woman to choose" (ignoring the fact Gore proposed humanity from conception in the House in 1984), the simple truth is MANY times it isn't the 'woman's choice' but the Daddy of the 14-year old girl.....or the boyfriend.......or the coach who knocked her up.......or the politician/athlete who is married and doesn't want to be on the hook for child support agreeing to pay her X in addition to the abortion.


Note: no offense intended toward 92tide, I just found those as examples of the cognitive dissonance this issue brings out. It is inherent in the issue for virtually everyone, no reflection upon you. If the thread had gone longer before I replied, I'm sure I could have picked more.
 

92tide

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Why do you think that is????

This is an issue I tend to stay out of and to me it just doesn't seem to be something where there really is a 'right' answer, merely a 'legal' one. But the cognitive dissonance inherent in whatever position one takes is inherent in this thread.



The rhetoric is good. And it's offset by:



But if it's just a tissue removal, this doesn't even matter. People don't act the same way about removal of the appendix, cataracts, or other stuff. Why? Because those 'things' are not even capable of being human lives. And why all the rhetoric about how it should be 'safe, legal, and RARE?' What difference does it make it if's 'rare?'

Of course, the pro-life side has inconsistencies, too, as Trump managed in his own inept way to show when Mathews hounded him. After all, if abortion IS murder then shouldn't the women having them be prosecuted? GHW Bush botched that question in the first debate with Dukakis in 1988, but he got away with it, mostly because despite what you see on TV, abortion is so far down the list on what people vote for in Presidential elections that other than a few loud-mouthed activists on both sides, nobody really cares (in voting terms).

Or what about the Christians who preach incessantly against it.....and then have them? The typical person who has an abortion tends to be a white, middle to upper middle class woman who can afford one. But I do recall an episode of the old "Paul Harvey" show citing a study from 1986 where Catholic women were far more likely to have them than Protestant women. The reason? The Catholic ban on contraception (pardon me for trying to piece together how abortion is any less of a mortal sin that some pills).

Over the years I've reluctantly arrived at the notion (similar to firearms) that people are going to have them anyway and thus it may as well be legal and 'safe.' I DO think they ought to somewhat liberalize adoption laws to offset part of it but whatever.

One final thing: while it sounds REAL good to quote Al Gore's useless rhetoric of "I believe in the right of a woman to choose" (ignoring the fact Gore proposed humanity from conception in the House in 1984), the simple truth is MANY times it isn't the 'woman's choice' but the Daddy of the 14-year old girl.....or the boyfriend.......or the coach who knocked her up.......or the politician/athlete who is married and doesn't want to be on the hook for child support agreeing to pay her X in addition to the abortion.


Note: no offense intended toward 92tide, I just found those as examples of the cognitive dissonance this issue brings out. It is inherent in the issue for virtually everyone, no reflection upon you. If the thread had gone longer before I replied, I'm sure I could have picked more.
this response is pretty loaded, and i didn't even make it past your first paragraph. for one thing, what you write implies that somehow making the arguments i am making that i don't realize that a fetus does sometimes become a child. i fully realize how biology works.

i am glad i didn't have to make that choice because we desperately wanted to have a family and had tried for a long time. if we would have had to terminate for whatever reason, i doubt i would have lived another happy day. but i can say the same had we still-born, or had our child died after a horrible and short existence in this world, or had my wife after spending 6 months knowing she was basically carrying a fetus that would never survive had died from complications from birth. like i said, i am lucky i didn't have to make that choice, but i wouldn't want anyone else to make it for me. and there are countless cases like this every year all around the world.

cognative dissonance, indeed.
 
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bama_wayne1

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me, i don't particularly care why someone decides to have an abortion. imo, that decision is between a woman and her doctor. but not every abortion is just a simple matter of convenience, there are many times that abortion is a medical necessity.

personally, i am glad that i was not faced with that choice. we were told point blank by the ob/gyn that if we would have been sitting in their office 20 years prior, they would have recommended terminating the pregnancy due to no chance of survival past a couple of horrific and painful days outside of the womb.
I can understand that, I just don't think that is the case most of the time. Either way it's not my decision to make this much I know. I pray for those who have to make them.
 

Jon

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it's just a sad thing. It would be much better to make the decision not to get impregnated if they don't want a child. With everything that is available to prevent pregnancy from occurring it seems a lazy way to correct a bad personal decision. I'm not trying to be harsh but other than rape just how can you accidently get pregnant?
you know how they say condoms are 99% effective? Want to take a stab at what that means for accidentally getting pregnant?

or, did you know that common antibiotics can make nullify the effects of the birth control pill? Due to the abysmal level of sex education in Alabama one of my sister in laws had no idea, till it was too late

condoms break, pills can get effected by other meds or forgotten, IUDs fail, etc, etc, etc
 

bama_wayne1

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you know how they say condoms are 99% effective? Want to take a stab at what that means for accidentally getting pregnant?

or, did you know that common antibiotics can make nullify the effects of the birth control pill? Due to the abysmal level of sex education in Alabama one of my sister in laws had no idea, till it was too late

condoms break, pills can get effected by other meds or forgotten, IUDs fail, etc, etc, etc
You want to take a stab at the chance of those occurring 3700 times a day?
 

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