LGBT wanting BYU banned from Big 12

CharminTide said:

I'm not sure I know what that means. Is disliking racists "reverse intolerance"?

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Technically, yes.

LA4Bama said:

I don't want to write a dissertation on this, but i want to try one more time to get the point across.

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I appreciate you going to the trouble of writing this, but I fully understood your point the first time. I just disagree with it.

Let me summarize the points I'm trying to suggest. While you probably don't mean to, you are defending a "might makes right" morality and "the end justifies the means" justification.

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I do not accept that nonviolent protest against large institutions is analagous to authoritarianism. And flipping the analagies does not change my view.

You also seem to think that success justifies the means... that it's good to use this kind of social action because it achieves results. Well, that is true, it achieves results, but ends don't justify means. Even in war we place limits of self-defense on our justifications, and proportionality on the means we use to achieve our ends. All the more so within civil society, must we limit ourselves. Ability to do something does not mean it is good to do it...

What you denied, that there is a certain "immunity from social consequences," is exactly what I assert. And It cuts both ways. And those who recognize this will limit themselves so all can be free.

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I'm honestly not sure what you're suggesting here. It sounds like you're implying that the right to protest is immoral and that challenging institutions with personal beliefs should not be permissible. Surely that's not what you mean?

Tide1986 said:

Technically, yes.

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Interesting.

CharminTide said:

I appreciate you going to the trouble of writing this, but I fully understood your point the first time...
I'm honestly not sure what you're suggesting here.

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LOL, you understand me... but you don't know what I mean. er...okay. Actually, It seems by your response that you missed my point pretty completey. In short, what I'm saying is some (indeed quite a few) forms of "protest" are actually forms of harassment, and that this case fits that. It is not non-violent, as you seem to wish to believe. It is, as others said before me, both intolerant and uses authoritarian tactics that trample on the rights of the people who make up that institution. This is not to defend what they believe as true, but to defend their right to believe it. This is not to deny your right to protest non-violently but to circumscribe non-violent protest within its proper boundaries.

I guess my take on this is if one wants to live a LGBT lifestyle then go ahead and have at it! Please don't try to force approval of your lifestyle on me because of my religious beliefs. I am very much against plural marriages but I'm not going to try to force my belief or my lifestyle (having one wife) on the Mormon church. I can protest anything I want to by not participating in it. If the LGBT people don't want the Big12 to take in BYU, just don't go to their sporting events.

LA4Bama said:

what I'm saying is some (indeed quite a few) forms of "protest" are actually forms of harassment... [that are] both intolerant and [use] authoritarian tactics that trample on the rights of the people who make up that institution.

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For a final time, I understood your argument perfectly. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

gtowntide said:

I guess my take on this is if one wants to live a LGBT lifestyle then go ahead and have at it! Please don't try to force approval of your lifestyle on me because of my religious beliefs. I am very much against plural marriages but I'm not going to try to force my belief or my lifestyle (having one wife) on the Mormon church. I can protest anything I want to by not participating in it. If the LGBT people don't want the Big12 to take in BYU, just don't go to their sporting events.

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That's using too much sound logic. You're not allowed to do that.