Why the SEC has struggled to get elite QB play
- Thread starter JustNeedMe81
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I guess I should have used the sarcasm color. I was saying that facetiously. That's the excuse we tend to use down here. I think NFL caliber QBs don't grow on trees. And of those, less than 8 are elite.
At the college level, though, think you develop a QB to better help you win to keep your job. And if that translates to some things that he can use at the next level then great.
Also, there are a ton of variables that go into whether a QB is successful at the next level. I think Stafford will be absolute trash this season because it will be his first one without Calvin Johnson, and he was just ok with Johnson.
Conversely, look at Cutler's numbers when he had Brandon Marshall vs when he didn't. I haven't seen them but my guess is that he's a better QB with Marshall who he has a great rapport with.
And then you have to look at QBs who go into situations with established QBs. As mentioned in my first paragraph, good QBs are hard to come by. And once a franchise comes by one, they hold on to them for a while. AJ could be a really good starter on at least 10 teams right now. But he's stuck behind Dalton. Dak had a very good showing in the first preseason game but that is Romo's team without question.
So there are a lot of factors. This article, I would put in the category of "need more data".
IMO, I think it's the past overabundance of run oriented offenses in the SEC for many years. The Big 12 and Pac-12 have been a pass first league and seem to get more talented QBs. I see it starting to change to some degree in the SEC, but it will take some time.
The NFL never adopted the Voodoo Football that's settled into the SEC over the past 10 years.....
SEC Defenses vs SEC OLs may be part of the issue.
In the SEC you will see dozens of NFL Caliber defensive players....but much fewer NFL Caliber OL players. So, SEC QBs have had to adapt to offenses that just aren't played in the NFL. That's why you see so many QBs come from the Pac 10....
SEC Defenses vs SEC OLs may be part of the issue.
In the SEC you will see dozens of NFL Caliber defensive players....but much fewer NFL Caliber OL players. So, SEC QBs have had to adapt to offenses that just aren't played in the NFL. That's why you see so many QBs come from the Pac 10....
My brother and I have discussed this numerous times. Once the older QBs started retiring, the more traditional pro-style QBs like AJ, Zach Mettenberger, Aaron Murray, and Ryan Mallett are going to be wanted because so many of the guys coming through college now aren't being developed and prepared for the NFL.
Anyone watch the Steelers' game last night? Did Landry Jones look good with his four first half INTs?
Like Mack says, there are several factors to consider and articles like this have to consider them all.
Does it really matter how many QBs the Big 12 sees drafted in the first round if a guy like Brandon Weedon doesn't actually do anything?
Or are we to praise the ACC and Jimbo Fischer for having Christian Ponder and EJ Manuel taken in the first round only to become bench players within three years?
So true about the QB's and the same is true for OL. NFL teams are having to spend a lot of extra time trying to develop QB's and OL once they get in the league. Coaches in the NFL recognize it and say it is a problem.
There really is quite a difference between the college and pro game and as alluded to above college coaches are more interested in winning than preparing a guy for his next team. What is interesting to me is the number of mid level teams that produce not just good but great NFL quarterbacks.
I am not sure about this. According to this article, OL had 12 selected in the draft from the SEC which led the conference in '16. There was 30 offensive players and 22 defensive players from the SEC selected in the 2016 draft (I did not research other years and it may back your statement). I know we have had a lot of 1st round and later round OL selected.
http://gridironnow.com/2016-nfl-draft-sec-most-draft-picks/
I think that it is because most elite high school QBs come from other parts of the country, so they go to school in other parts of the country. I think that the better question would be, why do so few great QBs come out of high schools in the South.
Quarterback projection seems to me to be so hit or miss that there's no rhyme nor reason to any of it anymore.
Tom Brady is an all-time great NFL quarterback - wasn't he taken in something like the sixth round?
Meanwhile, I remember when they were cranking up the hype machine for Matt Leinart and Mark Sanchez at USC, and IIRC (I don't follow the NFL overly closely), Leinart lost his starting job to a guy who worked his way into the NFL through the Arena League and became a borderline Hall of Famer (Kurt Warner).
And seriously - what did ANYONE see in Sam Bradford ever at all? I never saw it, thought he was fragile, and every time I turn around a team is taking a chance on him.
Tom Brady is an all-time great NFL quarterback - wasn't he taken in something like the sixth round?
Meanwhile, I remember when they were cranking up the hype machine for Matt Leinart and Mark Sanchez at USC, and IIRC (I don't follow the NFL overly closely), Leinart lost his starting job to a guy who worked his way into the NFL through the Arena League and became a borderline Hall of Famer (Kurt Warner).
And seriously - what did ANYONE see in Sam Bradford ever at all? I never saw it, thought he was fragile, and every time I turn around a team is taking a chance on him.
Not arguing so much as reasoning with you, but whom would we consider elite?
Peyton just retired, but he was, in fact, Southern born and bred.
Brady is from California by way of Michigan. Aaron Rodgers is from California. (So was Elway).
Favre was a Mississippi legend.
Who would we call elite now? Cam is very good, and he's Southern. Eli is so-so (hot/cold). Winston is from Alabama by way of FSU. I don't consider him elite obviously but...
And Pennsylvania has turned out some legends like Montana, Marino, and Unitas (Namath, too, though I think he's vastly overrated in the NFL).
Honest question - other than perhaps Brady and Rodgers, who is elite now?
There's a LOT of average to mediocre QBs in the NFL.
Valid question . And my personal opinion after studying the position intensely for the past 20 years now:
Brady
Rodgers
Cam
Brees
Roethlisberger
Russell Wilson
Just outside of that:
Rivers
Eli
Flacco
They tried to put Luck there prematurely but he's not there yet
Is the proposition really true?
I don't have time to count and do the math accurately, but if you think about it, qb is a position that develops very late. So there are 128 D1 schools, and the SEC currently comprises 11%, and as of 2011 we were just 9%. So assuming lots of parity among qb recruiting, we should only expect about 10%, or 6 to 7 players in the two deep, to be from the SEC. And that's not even counting the offset from development from lower divisions.
Peyton just retired, but was there last year. And I can think of Eli, Cutler, Mallett, AJ, Murray, Cam, Stafford. There's 7 right there, not counting Peyton, and I'm sure I've forgotten some. 4 are multiyear starters (5 with Peyton). So last year 5/32, or almost 16% of the starters were SEC. That's above average placement in the most ultra competitive position there is.
And then there was Johnny, who simply flamed out but was clearly good enough to be in the two deep. Dak Prescott might make it. And there are others I forgot and still others coming soon.
I think the issue is just that SEC QBs get less hype overall because we are a balanced league, and they may not come out with quite as much fanfare. But I bet when all the numbers are added up, we get our fair share and some.
I don't have time to count and do the math accurately, but if you think about it, qb is a position that develops very late. So there are 128 D1 schools, and the SEC currently comprises 11%, and as of 2011 we were just 9%. So assuming lots of parity among qb recruiting, we should only expect about 10%, or 6 to 7 players in the two deep, to be from the SEC. And that's not even counting the offset from development from lower divisions.
Peyton just retired, but was there last year. And I can think of Eli, Cutler, Mallett, AJ, Murray, Cam, Stafford. There's 7 right there, not counting Peyton, and I'm sure I've forgotten some. 4 are multiyear starters (5 with Peyton). So last year 5/32, or almost 16% of the starters were SEC. That's above average placement in the most ultra competitive position there is.
And then there was Johnny, who simply flamed out but was clearly good enough to be in the two deep. Dak Prescott might make it. And there are others I forgot and still others coming soon.
I think the issue is just that SEC QBs get less hype overall because we are a balanced league, and they may not come out with quite as much fanfare. But I bet when all the numbers are added up, we get our fair share and some.
The only one I 'might' disagree with you on is Wilson, but he's no doubt getting there.
So a couple of California guys, Cam is Southern, Brees played at Purdue but is 'from' Austin, TX, Big Ben is from Ohio (which has great HS football) and Russell Wilson is ALSO from Ohio by way of Wisconsin.
Hmm........
As a lifelong 49er fan, I hate Seattle with a passion so trust me it hurt me badly to type his name on the elite list. Add that to the fact that he doesn't do it the "traditional" way. But I cannot argue with or deny the results. He has that Auburn rabbit's foot planted firmly up his rear as he seems to ALWAYS get "lucky" and you're never out of the game with him. He makes the Manziel fluke plays routinely. And he does it all with one of the least notable receiving corps in the league. Only hardcore football fans could tell you anything about any of them and half of them probably can't. And in 4 seasons, he's taken his team to 2 Super Bowls and deep into the playoffs two more times.
And other thing that tears at me is the the top two guys I posted both grew up 49er fans and we had a chance to get them both and passed. SMH
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I don't think QB play has been terrible for us. I don't think QB play has been an issue for any of the teams that have won the title over this stretch. The SEC hasn't produced many first-round QBs lately but they also haven't produced many high round busts either. The style of play in this conference just puts a huge emphasis on being less risky in the passing game which probably doesn't help the QB tape for guys looking to make the NFL.
Until we get liabilities at the QB position, I'm not worried about it. 2015 was probably our most limited year at QB since the JPW days but we still put up 3000+ yards passing and Coker was a country strong, tough-as-nails guy.
Until we get liabilities at the QB position, I'm not worried about it. 2015 was probably our most limited year at QB since the JPW days but we still put up 3000+ yards passing and Coker was a country strong, tough-as-nails guy.
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