Link: UT Austin campus protest 'campus carry' law pretty weird, can't make this up........

Tidewater

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i wasn't talking about coke head racists I was talking about idiots accidentally discharging a gun, its just that this particular idiot happened to be a racist with a coke problem
Okay, but how many normal but not especially careful college students are wounding or killing their classmates through negligent discharges? I have never heard of one. I suppose there could be a large number, I just haven't heard about them.
 

Jon

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Okay, but how many normal but not especially careful college students are wounding or killing their classmates through negligent discharges? I have never heard of one. I suppose there could be a large number, I just haven't heard about them.
deliberately obtuse, though I will admit to poor initial phrasing at this point its just obnoxious
 

Tidewater

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deliberately obtuse, though I will admit to poor initial phrasing at this point its just obnoxious
I'm being deliberately obtuse?
I thought you brought up a serious point, that statistically a college student is more likely to be shot through a negligent discharge than a deliberate school shooting. That is an interesting allegation and I would looking for some supporting data.
If such data is not readily available, you could just say, "I'm a member of the donkey tribe and the donkey tribe opposes concealed carry on college campuses." At least then we know we are talking partisan politics, not rational thought.
I thought we were discussing policy.
 

Jon

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I'm being deliberately obtuse?
I thought you brought up a serious point, that statistically a college student is more likely to be shot through a negligent discharge than a deliberate school shooting. That is an interesting allegation and I would looking for some supporting data.
If such data is not readily available, you could just say, "I'm a member of the donkey tribe and the donkey tribe opposes concealed carry on college campuses." At least then we know we are talking partisan politics, not rational thought.
I thought we were discussing policy.
yes you are, I've clarified it twice and yet you keep trying to ignore the clarification and it is very obnoxious. I am done replying to you on this
 

Tidewater

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yes you are, I've clarified it twice and yet you keep trying to ignore the clarification and it is very obnoxious. I am done replying to you on this
Hmm. For the record, you have not clarified your point ("statistically the odds of being accidently (sic) shot by an idiot like my old roomate (sic) who was a paranoid freak before the cocaine and a paranoid super freak after are vastly, vastly higher than ever being involved in a Cho like situation"), just that you consider your roommate abnormal.
I just searched google news for stories of college students wounded/killed in a negligent discharge.
Since 2011, news.google.com returned one hit. 2011 at Florida State.
The map shows it off campus, but the gun owner was a FSU student.
This was a rifle negligent discharge, which is not easy (but would count for purposes of your premise).
It happened at 1:16 am Sunday morning.
from the story said:
"Wilhelm (shooter) may have been drinking earlier in the day, before the shooting."
(Gee, you think?)

Okay, so there is one case in point.

I suppose it would be out of bounds to ask if your roommate ever had a negligent discharge. Being a "paranoid super freak" would seem to put him in a high-risk category (meaning, statistically abnormally likely to have a negligent discharge) when it comes to negligent discharges.

Again, I'm not saying they do not happen, I am just challenging your premise that statistically one is more likely to be shot by a negligent discharge than an active shooter. I just don't see the evidence. Maybe you consider the premise to be simply an article of faith.
 

cuda.1973

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there were plenty of Armed Texans, including students when Charles Whitman climbed into that tower in Austin in 1966, not sure that it helped at all

Well, since you were not around back then...............

1.) It was a much different world. Everyone was shocked by this event. Today, well, how many have taken place, so far this year? Along with attacks by jihadi nut jobs? People have become de-sensationalized. Back then, this wasn't even the things of nightmares.

(Yes, every now and then, some form of mass murder took place. Google Richard Speck. That was a nightmare. BTW, he didn't use a gun........)

2.) That time of year, not a lot of students on campus.

3.) That part of town, right down the street from the State gubbament...............not exactly the place one would expect to find the stereotypical Texan that you are suggesting. Even today, you won't find many of those type near the campus. (People like that avoid Austin, in general.)

4.) He was up in a tower. Big difference than someone being in a classroom, down the hall. There was only one way to get him. Which is what they did. It took time.
 

Jon

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Well, since you were not around back then...............

1.) It was a much different world. Everyone was shocked by this event. Today, well, how many have taken place, so far this year? Along with attacks by jihadi nut jobs? People have become de-sensationalized. Back then, this wasn't even the things of nightmares.

(Yes, every now and then, some form of mass murder took place. Google Richard Speck. That was a nightmare. BTW, he didn't use a gun........)

2.) That time of year, not a lot of students on campus.

3.) That part of town, right down the street from the State gubbament...............not exactly the place one would expect to find the stereotypical Texan that you are suggesting. Even today, you won't find many of those type near the campus. (People like that avoid Austin, in general.)

4.) He was up in a tower. Big difference than someone being in a classroom, down the hall. There was only one way to get him. Which is what they did. It took time.
so what?

As I mentioned there where armed combat vets in the Oregon Community college and it didn't help there either.

For the record I have nothing against guns, hell I have guns myself and I am not advocating having them nor stating that we shouldn't just saying, "I'm not sure it would help" and so far no one has provided any sort of fact that would change my mind.
 

Relayer

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so what?

As I mentioned there where armed combat vets in the Oregon Community college and it didn't help there either.

For the record I have nothing against guns, hell I have guns myself and I am not advocating having them nor stating that we shouldn't just saying, "I'm not sure it would help" and so far no one has provided any sort of fact that would change my mind.
"... not sure it would help."

So, you're saying it might help.

There are very few "sure things". I do a lot of things to protect my safety that aren't "sure things".
 

seebell

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Trying to help fellas.

https://everytownresearch.org/reports/analysis-of-school-shootings/

Between 2013-15 Everytown identified 160 school shootings across 38 states. Nearly 53 percent of the identified shootings took place at K-12 schools, and 47 percent took place on college or university campuses.
In 95 incidents — over half — the perpetrator(s) intentionally injured or killed at least one other person with a gun. In eight of those incidents, the shooter then shot and killed him or herself; in 20 separate incidents, the shooter attempted or completed suicide without first attacking someone else. Twelve shootings were purely unintentional in nature, and in 33 other incidents, a gun was discharged but no one was injured.

And from the CDC:
http://www.cdc.gov/ViolencePrevention/youthviolence/schoolviolence/SAVD.html

 

TIDE-HSV

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Hmm. For the record, you have not clarified your point ("statistically the odds of being accidently (sic) shot by an idiot like my old roomate (sic) who was a paranoid freak before the cocaine and a paranoid super freak after are vastly, vastly higher than ever being involved in a Cho like situation"), just that you consider your roommate abnormal.
I just searched google news for stories of college students wounded/killed in a negligent discharge.
Since 2011, news.google.com returned one hit. 2011 at Florida State.
The map shows it off campus, but the gun owner was a FSU student.
This was a rifle negligent discharge, which is not easy (but would count for purposes of your premise).
It happened at 1:16 am Sunday morning.
(Gee, you think?)

Okay, so there is one case in point.

I suppose it would be out of bounds to ask if your roommate ever had a negligent discharge. Being a "paranoid super freak" would seem to put him in a high-risk category (meaning, statistically abnormally likely to have a negligent discharge) when it comes to negligent discharges.

Again, I'm not saying they do not happen, I am just challenging your premise that statistically one is more likely to be shot by a negligent discharge than an active shooter. I just don't see the evidence. Maybe you consider the premise to be simply an article of faith.
Just guessing, but it would make sense that NDs with handguns would be more likely to injure the handler himself. OTOH, just from the way that they're built, it would seem that most rifle NDs would be more likely to injure someone else. Also, rifles are not required to be drop-tested, as has been required of handguns since 1968. I got into a stupid argument with a stupid friend of a friend on Facebook who was convinced that all handguns discharge immediately upon being dropped. I cut it off after she claimed to have seen an AD with a pistol dropped by a crazy BIL and claiming that firemen had had rounds in handguns cook off while firefighting (takes 300F+). I realized she was making it up on the fly and she'd seen too many movies with the typical Hollywood tripe...
 

Tidewater

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Just guessing, but it would make sense that NDs with handguns would be more likely to injure the handler himself. OTOH, just from the way that they're built, it would seem that most rifle NDs would be more likely to injure someone else. Also, rifles are not required to be drop-tested, as has been required of handguns since 1968. I got into a stupid argument with a stupid friend of a friend on Facebook who was convinced that all handguns discharge immediately upon being dropped. I cut it off after she claimed to have seen an AD with a pistol dropped by a crazy BIL and claiming that firemen had had rounds in handguns cook off while firefighting (takes 300F+). I realized she was making it up on the fly and she'd seen too many movies with the typical Hollywood tripe...
That FSU case was just sad. Some parents sent their daughter of the Tallahassee to study interior design and they get a Sunday morning phone call that their daughter has been killed in a stupid gun accident.
As for the gun owner, who "may have been drinking," he also had a lousy Sunday morning. I mean, who stores a hunting rifle with a round in chamber? And after an evening of drinking, the words, "Hey, let me show y'all my rifle," probably precede something really bad.
 

TIDE-HSV

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That FSU case was just sad. Some parents sent their daughter of the Tallahassee to study interior design and they get a Sunday morning phone call that their daughter has been killed in a stupid gun accident.
As for the gun owner, who "may have been drinking," he also had a lousy Sunday morning. I mean, who stores a hunting rifle with a round in chamber? And after an evening of drinking, the words, "Hey, let me show y'all my rifle," probably precede something really bad.
I don't know of anyone sane who stores a hunting rifle chambered. You can't fix stupid...
 

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