While in my opinion Shula verged on incompetent as a head coach, it was not my intent to demonize him as a person. My point was and remains that he was fired, and fired specifically for not heeding his boss's instructions, although his won-loss record almost surely played a part in Moore's decision. Heeding Daddy Don's advice on the subject of staff retention likely played a large part in his downfall as well.
Has Mike Shula visited Alabama in any capacity since being let go?
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I did not mean to imply you thought that. When you get on the soap box you lose sight of the content of the thread you are replying to after a few thoughts.
I think I'd have said something I can't say here.
I can see him being mad at Mal Moore and the big money boosters, but to be a jerk to a kid is just low. It would not have killed him to give a fake smile and a wave and then go on his way.
Other than Perkins and Stallings, have any of our former coaches had any contact with Tuscaloosa after they left here?
He actually had been back on campus between his time as a player and hiring .... once . Mike attended a "Team of the Century" gathering prior to the 1992 season .
Here is your original statement:
Gene Stallings expressed a public interest, and I know that Richard Williamson (again - from reliable sources) was interested in the position as well (and from what I've been told was hurt when he didn't get it). There was also a certain guy who was coaching Okie State at the time who is alleged to have expressed interest, and it would have been a significant jump for him. And Sylvester Croom wanted it so badly that he spent his entire MSU tenure retaliating against us for the most frivolous of things and spent up his treasury of good will with much of our fan base who adored him.
Now....no, Saban and Spurrier were not beating the door down to leave where they were in May 2003 and YES, we did have some obvious limitations as to whom exactly we could hire. But that's not the point. The point is that this whole myth of "Shula took a job nobody wanted" as if we should bow down and kiss his ring because he did something sacrificial is upsetting to a number of us who have heard from reliable sources a lot of the stuff that never made it into the newspaper or on the Net a dozen years ago.
It's no longer on the Net, but Stewart Mandel ripped us in 2003 over the firing of Price and then over the possibility we might hire Stallings, whom Mandel said was the one who got us in all the trouble in the first place. So yes, others showed interest.
One more thing: I DO know from another source that when Mike Price was hired in 2003, he was sat down and explained VERY CLEARLY with attorneys present that when he was asked a question that he'd better volunteer everything he knew rather than falling into a legalistic 'technically/legally correct' answer. He was told what was unacceptable behavior in his job and that he was the most high visibility employee in the entire state. When the epic end came (oh pardon the puns) in Florida, he tried to minimize his behavior into 'a mistake.' Problem is, it wasn't the first time he'd been acting so ridiculously inappropriate.
In fact, it wasn't even the second.
But that never made the newspapers, either.
That is simply NOT true. But then you carefully shade categories:
Here is some advice: you have been here for 15 months and I've been here for 15 years. We have connected individuals here who cannot share everything they know else they would lose their access to information (note: I am NOT connected, but I know a few who are). I, too, once held the position you are espousing here. I'm also aware of the fact of two Super Bowl-winning coaches (Parcells and Coughlin) who expressed an interest in Alabama prior to the hiring of Price (although that's not what we're talking about obviously).
Gene Stallings expressed a public interest, and I know that Richard Williamson (again - from reliable sources) was interested in the position as well (and from what I've been told was hurt when he didn't get it). There was also a certain guy who was coaching Okie State at the time who is alleged to have expressed interest, and it would have been a significant jump for him. And Sylvester Croom wanted it so badly that he spent his entire MSU tenure retaliating against us for the most frivolous of things and spent up his treasury of good will with much of our fan base who adored him.
Now....no, Saban and Spurrier were not beating the door down to leave where they were in May 2003 and YES, we did have some obvious limitations as to whom exactly we could hire. But that's not the point. The point is that this whole myth of "Shula took a job nobody wanted" as if we should bow down and kiss his ring because he did something sacrificial is upsetting to a number of us who have heard from reliable sources a lot of the stuff that never made it into the newspaper or on the Net a dozen years ago.
It's no longer on the Net, but Stewart Mandel ripped us in 2003 over the firing of Price and then over the possibility we might hire Stallings, whom Mandel said was the one who got us in all the trouble in the first place. So yes, others showed interest.
One more thing: I DO know from another source that when Mike Price was hired in 2003, he was sat down and explained VERY CLEARLY with attorneys present that when he was asked a question that he'd better volunteer everything he knew rather than falling into a legalistic 'technically/legally correct' answer. He was told what was unacceptable behavior in his job and that he was the most high visibility employee in the entire state. When the epic end came (oh pardon the puns) in Florida, he tried to minimize his behavior into 'a mistake.' Problem is, it wasn't the first time he'd been acting so ridiculously inappropriate.
In fact, it wasn't even the second.
But that never made the newspapers, either.
I think Daddy Don's public comments about the university and Mal Moore right after Mike's dismissal pretty much should answer this question in any reasonable person's mind.
In the words of the great Jimmy Buffett, "Yesterday's over my shoulder, so I can't look back for too long ... There's just too much to see waiting in front of me, and I know that I just can't go wrong!"
My family name has been associated with UA for 131 years. Having 30k or 12k posts on some blog just means you really have nothing better to do, but you think this give you clout. I know what I know because I had someone there to hear it first hand from my family, not some "source". Plus, I happen to know the Shula's and was first introduced to Mike during a Roger Smith baseball camp in the summer of 86 by none other than Red. So why don't you take some advice and don't judge someone by being here for 15 months.
ZERO, he was the only guy who took the job on the conditions laid out. Basically Joe Willy and a few other former players put the deal together to bring him in.
It had to do with probation more than climate. 90% of $100,000 NFL position coaches would have pounced on it. We took one with ties and pedigree. A NFL quarterback coach that went back to Miami after being demoted from OC with the bucs. He is now back up to OC these days. He pounced on it. 6 times the salary. with a multi year contract.
There is a middle ground. No we could not get a named proven coach, but we could get from another pool, a lower tier. That nobody other than Shula wanted the job is false. Croom? Another position coach wanted it badly.
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I was pondering Shula's standing with the Bama fan base...and wondered how he would rate compared to the other post-Bryant Bama coaches who did not win a national championship. If you had to choose a coach out of that bunch, which would get picked? Perkins, Curry, DuBose, Fran, Shula or Price.
When I consider that question, it tends to make me feel a little better towards Shula. He certainly had his faults, but they don't seem as glaring when you compare with what we've dealt with out of some of the other guys.
When I consider that question, it tends to make me feel a little better towards Shula. He certainly had his faults, but they don't seem as glaring when you compare with what we've dealt with out of some of the other guys.
Ok I'll try a lesser route to what Selma did, and see if it works. You clearly stated that "Shula took a job that no one wanted". It is true in how you present it and back it up. As is it is clearly wrong because it is a very well known fact that Sylvester Croom was a leading canidate for the job, and was very upset that he didn't get the job. Even some Bama fans were upset about it. The point is that Shula was clearly not the only one willing to accept the job. Now if you meant the words "no one " to mean coaches like Saban, Spurier, and the other elites then you are correct. No one ever wants to coach where there are serious penalties in place especially made coaches.
I would say Fran at the time had us going on a better path for success than any of them, but we will never know if it would've produced anything worth writing home about. But I would say bad feelings toward Fran aside I would rank him #1
Perkins and curry are interchangeable imo. One had a hard time of getting in position to win a title (Perkins) while the other couldn't beat Auburn while being in position (Curry)
I would actually give Shula #4 because he was just an average coach and he was consistent at what he did
I know it's funny that the guy that won an SEC title in the SECCG era is ranked #5 on the list but facts are that a loss to La Tech, and his inability to beat Tennessee after beating UF and MSU in the same year cost us a shot at the Noles in NOLA for one of the most talented non title Bama team ever. Then there was 00. You can poke fun at all these other coaches but you can't say that they produced such a train wreck like the 2000 team. Dubose lived and died off of stallings's recruits.
Depends on how you define 'elite', but there were experienced (even desirable) coaches who reached out to Alabama.
To clarify, I dont have "sources" that deal with the things that we are discussing now with the politics in the back office. So I have no idea who actually was interested, but I'm willing to guess it wasn't by coaches that were going to be able to lead us on a Bryant or Saban run that we are used to. My definition of elite is being or being capable of being dominant for a good amount of time. Coaches like CNS, Spurrier, and Meyer come to mind. In 2003 I think we were scaring away the up and comers that were about to make a splash, and we were going to either going to get a name from the past that was going to have us winning for a short period of time, or we were going to have a shot in the dark hire that was going to ride out the sanctions while keeping our nose clean.
I wouldn't be surprised if Cutcliff, Snyder, or some old NFL coaches were on that list, but again I think the sanctions were too extreme for the up and comers to jump into. But again I don't know what was actually on the table, and to a degree I don't really care because if x didn't go with y then b +y doesn't equal Saban. My point was that Shula wasn't the only serious canidate that was contacted or expressed serious intrest like the poster responding to Selma was saying, and I think we can agree with that.
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Didn't coach Fran call a game or something? So Dubose is the only no show, along with Brother Oliver I bet. Those guys of the early 60's are all about gone, its a little sad. What a group of players/coaches we had in the 60's. Mal and Battle, Stallings, Dubose, Oliver and on and on.
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