Officiating across college football

RammerJammer14 · Sep 18, 2016

Redwood Forrest said:
At Miss St one year Shaud Williams fumbled the ball forward on 4th and short. Our lineman recovered for a 1st down. But, they gave the ball to Ole Miss because you can't fumble the ball forward on 4th down.

Kelly ran to the two yard line and fumbled the ball forward but they did not bring it back. Why? Has the rule changed or did he already have the 1st down before fumbling?

It was already 3rd down on that run. His butt hit the ground about the 1yd line, and so they kicked the FG on 4th and 1. Nothing wrong with that play and call, other than letting the play continue on with the "fumble" when the player was clearly down. And I really don't have a problem with the refs there either. Their has been an emphasis across the NCAA on letting possible fumbles play all the way out after they blew a couple a clear fumble recoveries dead a couple of years ago.

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Snuffy Smith · Sep 18, 2016

Redwood Forrest said:
At Miss St one year Shaud Williams fumbled the ball forward on 4th and short. Our lineman recovered for a 1st down. But, they gave the ball to Ole Miss because you can't fumble the ball forward on 4th down.

Kelly ran to the two yard line and fumbled the ball forward but they did not bring it back. Why? Has the rule changed or did he already have the 1st down before fumbling?

Wasn't fourth down

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Krymsonman · Sep 18, 2016

BamainBoston said:
Yeah, but Gary is a bonehead when it comes to penalties. He's good in other areas, but he screws them up with regularity. As I said, it kinda reminded me of the Cody helmet issue. It was a late hit in that it was well behind the play and unnecessary. I'm not saying that they didn't mess it up, but I would like an official explanation that doesn't include Gary.

Well, my only explanation is the penalty, whatever it is called, happened before the touchdown, not after. So it should have been a live ball call, and enforced from the spot of the foul. Maybe we stop them there and that touchdown never happens. It's all ifs and skiffs, I'm just glad the good guys won.

Krymsonman · Sep 18, 2016

Redwood Forrest said:
At Miss St one year Shaud Williams fumbled the ball forward on 4th and short. Our lineman recovered for a 1st down. But, they gave the ball to Ole Miss because you can't fumble the ball forward on 4th down.

Kelly ran to the two yard line and fumbled the ball forward but they did not bring it back. Why? Has the rule changed or did he already have the 1st down before fumbling?

This also happened in the Tennessee-App State game. Tennessee fumbled into the end zone on third down, and recovered it, so it's a TD. Apparently in college, the ball is only brought back to the spot of the fumble on 4th down. Any other down is a live ball.

BamaMoon · Sep 18, 2016

TrueCrimson7 said:
RB's knee before the ball crossed the goal line. The officials got the reviewable plays correct after review. The ones that did not get called, however....

DzynKingRTR said:
if they had called it a touchdown, it wouldn't have been overturned.

Haven't read the whole thread...just page one, but on this play there was no conclusive proof about his knee being down or not...so they went with the call on the field, which was correct.

As DyznKing notes, had they called it a TD on the field it would have not been overturned for lack of evidence.

At least on this one they got it right....but they blew so many others it's not funny.

At this point, ALL CALLS should be reviewable...not just certain ones because the outcome of too many games are going to be in question.

If you have reviews have reviews of every play or don't do any. If not, let's just go back to not reviewing anything because to reveiw one call and not another is simply not fair when both could turn the tide on a game.

ALA2262 · Sep 18, 2016

Krymsonman said:
This also happened in the Tennessee-App State game. Tennessee fumbled into the end zone on third down, and recovered it, so it's a TD. Apparently in college, the ball is only brought back to the spot of the fumble on 4th down. Any other down is a live ball.

And only then if recovered by a player other than the one who fumbled.

JDCrimson · Sep 18, 2016

Seeing the picture at the beginning of this thread of the review center? How is this practical? I mean really last night there were 3 SEC games going on simultaneously. Seriously who do they have sitting there monitoring these games and what are their qualifications? This is taking a whole lot of people to operate and I am sure some of the people in this review center have never called a game in their life. Based on what happened yesterday in our game there were some really bad calls and way too many play stoppages. I see this review center as being overkill. They ought to handle the review on site from the press box with the added medical reviewer and be done with it.

It's obvious from the setup of the center they have some junior person sitting there monitoring this game and the decision makers are standing at the back of the room trying to monitor all the games at the same time. Yeah I am sure that a lot more plays are getting closer scrutiny but I had to set my recorder for 4 1/2 hours to get it all. It lasted 4hrs and 15 minutes.

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Tidewater · Sep 18, 2016

tattooguy21 said:
And in case anyone missed it, a touchdown by Oklahoma shouldn't have counted. Again, the player clearly dropped the ball prior to crossing the line (and this was by the largest margin at nearly the 2 yard line.)

Refs called td and let it go

https://twitter.com/ByJoeFleming/status/777324707796381697

I've heard that if you carry the ball over the goal line, you get six points, but if you drop the ball 6 microns over that line, the same play counts for 10 points (or something).

Bama-94-00 · Sep 18, 2016

The sack-fumble hit on Hurts could have been called spearing since the defender lowered his head to hit with the top of the helmet. Maybe that's been replaced by targeting or something.

CB4 · Sep 18, 2016

My understanding is that, when it comes to a potential targeting call, the review official can stop play to review with or without it be called on the field. I could be wrong but I thought it was one of the "exceptions" on reviewable plays.

My position is that it was text book targeting. He didn't take a "heads up" position when he hit Hurts. If you watch closely the tackler actually tucks his chin, raising the crown of the helmet into the upper chest/neck area and up into the chin.

Regardless, statement that the office in Birmingham reviewed the hit and saw nothing was CYA. The PAT had been kicked and the next play run before the issue really got raised.

Play should have been stopped immediately and time taken for it to be completely and fully reviewed.

And don't get me started on the missed holding calls on the left side of the Ole Miss line. That wasn't blocking. It was form tackling.

Edit: From NCAA in March of this year. The replay officials can call for a targeting review even if it is possibly missed by the on field officials.

http://www.ncaa.com/news/football/article/2016-03-08/college-football-ncaa-expand-replay-officials-authority-targeting

Crimson1967 · Sep 18, 2016

TIDE-HSV said:
I was going to make a separate thread, but I'll put it here. What is this BS about Birmingham "concurring?" Are the reviews really taking place there? Do they have a control room with all the SEC-officiated games playing? I, for one, don't like it. It slows things enough already without the booth officials having to look over their shoulders to see if Shaw agrees. Is the next step for the Commissioner to be the final arbiter?

The NFL does reviews in New York.

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Sabanizer · Sep 18, 2016

We have had some bad games, but I am happy that they have tweaked their targeting calls, even if they missed a big one. It was ridiculous 2 or 3 years ago. It was panic when they called it. I believe some of the scare blew over and they realized that football is football. It is a superior sport and nothing will ever stop it, so don't try to ruin it.
That aside, I have seen some sloppy games by the refs.

bama2112 · Sep 18, 2016

Mabye the SEC should swap their officials for the ones in the PAC 10. They couldnt do a worse job than we have witnessed Saturday.

RTR91 · Sep 18, 2016

JDCrimson said:
Seeing the picture at the beginning of this thread of the review center? How is this practical? I mean really last night there were 3 SEC games going on simultaneously. Seriously who do they have sitting there monitoring these games and what are their qualifications? This is taking a whole lot of people to operate and I am sure some of the people in this review center have never called a game in their life. Based on what happened yesterday in our game there were some really bad calls and way too many play stoppages. I see this review center as being overkill. They ought to handle the review on site from the press box with the added medical reviewer and be done with it.

It's obvious from the setup of the center they have some junior person sitting there monitoring this game and the decision makers are standing at the back of the room trying to monitor all the games at the same time. Yeah I am sure that a lot more plays are getting closer scrutiny but I had to set my recorder for 4 1/2 hours to get it all. It lasted 4hrs and 15 minutes.

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This might explain it a bit.

www.wruf.com/headlines/2016/07/12/sec-coordinator-of-officials-talks-rule-changes-at-media-days/

bama2112 said:
Mabye the SEC should swap their officials for the ones in the PAC 10. They couldnt do a worse job than we have witnessed Saturday.

Pac-12 officials are trash.

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Cr1msoN4life · Sep 18, 2016

Very well said colbysullivan , and I agree It was malicious and without a doubt targeting. The roughing the qb call against us the series before (that kept their drive alive and resulted in a next play td)where our player pulled back and then held up kelly from falling hard was atrocious as well.. What really chapped my rear was the blatant and obvious holding calls that were ignored repeatedly, IMHO upwards of 12 or more. Accountability must be addressed for these pitiful excuse for referees. Ive seen better in high school. I say we impeach Sankey!lol just joking but really something should be done... Suggestions? I say penalize their pay for poor performance.. Aren't most professions performance based? Why should they be any different? Food for thought people.

GreatMarch · Sep 18, 2016

Cr1msoN4life said:
Very well said colbysullivan , and I agree It was malicious and without a doubt targeting. The roughing the qb call against us the series before (that kept their drive alive and resulted in a next play td)where our player pulled back and then held up kelly from falling hard was atrocious as well.. What really chapped my rear was the blatant and obvious holding calls that were ignored repeatedly, IMHO upwards of 12 or more. Accountability must be addressed for these pitiful excuse for referees. Ive seen better in high school. I say we impeach Sankey!lol just joking but really something should be done... Suggestions? I say penalize their pay for poor performance.. Aren't most professions performance based? Why should they be any different? Food for thought people.

Actually it is kind of performance based where the top 2 crews get to pick if they want to work the SEC Championship game or the BCS game the SEC gets assigned for officiating. Those games come with nice pay checks and perks. I did once joke with an SEC official that I know, had the SEC office asked another conference to officiate the SEC Championship? He didn't find the humor.

rgw · Sep 18, 2016

I'm beginning to believe that a lot of how top-level college football is structured needs to be scrapped. I think conference level control needs to be minimized in many matters, officiating should be professionalized (this is a multibillion dollar industry), and there should be a central body that standardizes scheduling and implementation of the rules.

I don't want to see the SEC dead and gone. I'd just rather it be the equivelent of the "Southeastern Division in the National College Football League" instead of its own body with its own methods of deploying officiating, deciding how transfers work, etc.

rgw · Sep 18, 2016

Also, I think that is basically what Saban is arguing for from a strictly competitive standpoint. He wants a commissioner with the mandate to have nearly unlimited discretion. Democracy is great but some things are better served for the ethical despot. The rules with ineligibles down field, correcting flaws in the clock rules, and demanding officiating control over pace of play v. offensive unit control over pace of play cannot happen within the NCAA committee structure. Sport is kinda best served by an executive and executive staff just dictating how its going to be with the ability for the owners (in this case the schools) to toss the executive if they don't like their direction anymore.

GreatMarch · Sep 18, 2016

On the Ole Miss defensive TD, the call that was made on Speight for unnecessary roughness was , I thought, a dumb call. A dumber play on his part but it did appear that he got his head across the front but it was away from the play but there is no rule on legal blocking away from the play. The hit on Hurts was helmet to helmet and I did think targeting but it is rare that QBs get calls like that when holding the ball in the pocket. Now when the ball is thrown, you cannot even lay a hand on the QBs helmet without getting the flag, see Ryan Anderson trying to hold up Chad Kelly. And, with Hurts being a running and athletic QB I am worried he might take more shots up high without a flag.

Sabanizer · Sep 18, 2016

I watched some of the game with Dodd Holt a former player out of Walker co. He was so mad he would go the porch. This guy was recruited by Drew, with a leather helmet, played with Star and Whitworth after Coach Drew got sick, first plastic helmets, and then went through a spring training with Coach Bryant. Got an elbow to the head, split his helmet and knocked out 4 side teeth and that was the end. Believes the hit to Jalen could have killed him back then. Also mentioned that Stalling's was by far was the hardest assistant on the players he thought due to junction.
He was fired up at the refs. Though he was going to have a heart attack.

Officiating across college football

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