Officiating across college football

tattooguy21

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Aug 14, 2012
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I'm looking at the slomo, and what I'm seeing is the crown of the helmet hitting the bottom of Hurts' helmet...
Anyone else notice in the slo-mo that the first thing on hurts that moves is his helmet, then his head? It's almost like something hit it, then came into connect with the rest of his body
If his helmet had hit his chest as the SEC officals stated his head would have moved forward, but you can see it clearly goes backward as the result of helmet to helmet. Does not the university submit questionable plays to the SEC office after each game? I wonder if we will hear anything out of those hallowed chambers.

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RammerJammer14

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I agree, just like a fastball to the sternum can stop the heart. I regard that as pretty remote, though, compared with the risk of helmet to helmet, like happened Saturday...
Absolutely. I just wanted to highlight that a flag probably should have been thrown anyways even if he hit him in the chest. Leading with the helmet is leading with the helmet. Used to be Spearing, but that rule seems to have faded and been consumed by Targeting. :)


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CB4

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Absolutely. I just wanted to highlight that a flag probably should have been thrown anyways even if he hit him in the chest. Leading with the helmet is leading with the helmet. Used to be Spearing, but that rule seems to have faded and been consumed by Targeting. :)


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And even if the flag wasn't thrown, the replay official should have at least buzzed the field officials to stop play long enough to closely review it. A hit like that warrants scrutiny.

And that is my biggest beef. We hear all about "player safety", yet no one stops play to review it? Give me a break.
 

TIDE-HSV

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And even if the flag wasn't thrown, the replay official should have at least buzzed the field officials to stop play long enough to closely review it. A hit like that warrants scrutiny.

And that is my biggest beef. We hear all about "player safety", yet no one stops play to review it? Give me a break.
I think that, since Hurts was separated from the ball, they hated to blow the play dead and take away the TD. I hope it was worth it to Shaw to give up his credibility forever...
 

TIDE-HSV

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And even if the flag wasn't thrown, the replay official should have at least buzzed the field officials to stop play long enough to closely review it. A hit like that warrants scrutiny.

And that is my biggest beef. We hear all about "player safety", yet no one stops play to review it? Give me a break.
I see what you're saying - let the play finish on out and then review the targeting...
 

4Q Basket Case

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In August, I went to a talk given by Mark Curles. He said that starting with this year, targeting is one of the few penalties that can be called from the replay booth even if it's missed by the refs on the field. He also said that all plays are centrally viewable in the SEC office to help with reviewed plays.

So the system failed three times: The guys on the field missed it. The guy in the replay booth in the stadium missed it, and the guys in the SEC office in Birmingham missed it.

In his column today, Cecil Hurt said that the TD shouldn't have counted because there was a personal foul on the return. Don't know if Cecil's right or not, but it's clear the refs couldn't have botched that call any worse than they did.

FWIW, I don't think they're biased. I do think they're incompetent.
 

BamaFlum

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In August, I went to a talk given by Mark Curles. He said that starting with this year, targeting is one of the few penalties that can be called from the replay booth even if it's missed by the refs on the field. He also said that all plays are centrally viewable in the SEC office to help with reviewed plays.

So the system failed three times: The guys on the field missed it. The guy in the replay booth in the stadium missed it, and the guys in the SEC office in Birmingham missed it.

In his column today, Cecil Hurt said that the TD shouldn't have counted because there was a personal foul on the return. Don't know if Cecil's right or not, but it's clear the refs couldn't have botched that call any worse than they did.

FWIW, I don't think they're biased. I do think they're incompetent.
The personal foul occurred behind the return and before the ball carrier crossed the goal line. Doesn't guarantee that Ole Miss doesn't score but it does give the possibility. Plus, the helmet to helmet should have negated the whole thing anyway.


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GreatMarch

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I think that, since Hurts was separated from the ball, they hated to blow the play dead and take away the TD. I hope it was worth it to Shaw to give up his credibility forever...
You just hit on a new emphasis with officials that I think is bad form. This idea to let a fumble play continue and let the replay booth get the call. I have always been taught, "that if you see it call it, and if you call it, make sure you saw it!" These refs see the played down with possession but this new emphasis of play continuation is stupid and points to more lack of player safety. You have guys running around when a play should be dead and I can see a time when a hesitant runner or tackler gets the worse of a collision and is lost for the year when the ref should have blown a play dead that the clearly saw! I know there had to be at least 3 fumble plays that were clearly down in our game that the refs had to have seen was down by contact, but the play continued for no purpose and then the game was stopped for an eternity replay review. This is bad form and I agree with your sentiment on Steve Shaw and I am disappointed to say that, but it is what it is.
 

teamplayer

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I know you guys are talking about the rule as written, and I get that. However, I'm glad that hit was not called as targeting because it seemed like a good, clean hit to me. It gives me hope that we are not just a few years away from flag football. The guy did not leave his feet and go high. He seemed to aim at the chest. Hurts seemed to flinch at the last second causing his head to drop a little, which was the cause of his helmet hitting the bottom of Hurts's face mask. That was just football to me. He didn't hit Hurts from the blind side. He was coming right at him in a way that Hurts had a chance to see and elude him. Now, the late hit called on us where our guy seemed to be trying to hold him up seemed like crap. I also wish coaches only received one challenge per half so we didn't have to watch replay over and over. It has become a joke. Tell the refs to be aggressive with their calls again and not wait for replay to settle it. Let the refs call the game and give the coaches ONE challenge per half because all this replay crap just kills momentum and a lot of the fun of watching the game. Of course, these are just my humble thoughts.
 

RTR91

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I know you guys are talking about the rule as written, and I get that. However, I'm glad that hit was not called as targeting because it seemed like a good, clean hit to me. It gives me hope that we are not just a few years away from flag football. The guy did not leave his feet and go high. He seemed to aim at the chest. Hurts seemed to flinch at the last second causing his head to drop a little, which was the cause of his helmet hitting the bottom of Hurts's face mask. That was just football to me. He didn't hit Hurts from the blind side. He was coming right at him in a way that Hurts had a chance to see and elude him. Now, the late hit called on us where our guy seemed to be trying to hold him up seemed like crap. I also wish coaches only received one challenge per half so we didn't have to watch replay over and over. It has become a joke. Tell the refs to be aggressive with their calls again and not wait for replay to settle it. Let the refs call the game and give the coaches ONE challenge per half because all this replay crap just kills momentum and a lot of the fun of watching the game. Of course, these are just my humble thoughts.
He might not have left his feet but did lead with the crown of his helmet. That's targeting every single time.
 

NationalTitles18

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Targeting and Making Forcible ContactWith the Crown of the Helmet

ARTICLE 3. No player shall target and make forcible contact against anopponent with the crown (top) of his helmet. This foul requires that therebe at least one indicator of targeting (See Note 1 below). When in question,it is a foul. (Rule 9-6) (A.R. 9-1-3-I)

Targeting and Making Forcible Contact to Heador Neck Area of a Defenseless Player

ARTICLE 4. No player shall target and make forcible contact to the heador neck area of a defenseless opponent (See Note 2 below) with the helmet,forearm, hand, fist, elbow or shoulder. This foul requires that there be atleast one indicator of targeting (See Note 1 below). When in question, it isa foul (Rules 2-27-14 and 9-6). (A.R. 9-1-4-I-VI)

Note 1: “Targeting” means that a player takes aim at an opponent forpurposes of attacking with forcible contact that goes beyond makinga legal tackle or a legal block or playing the ball. Some indicators oftargeting include but are not limited to:
• Launch—a player leaving his feet to attack an opponent by anupward and forward thrust of the body to make forcible contact inthe head or neck area
• A crouch followed by an upward and forward thrust to attack withforcible contact at the head or neck area, even though one or bothfeet are still on the ground
• Leading with helmet, shoulder, forearm, fist, hand or elbow toattack with forcible contact at the head or neck area

• Lowering the head before attacking by initiating forcible contactwith the crown of the helmet
Note 2: Defenseless player (Rule 2-27-14):• A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass.• A receiver attempting to catch a forward pass or in position toreceive a backward pass, or one who has completed a catch and hasnot had time to protect himself or has not clearly become a ballcarrier.• A kicker in the act of or just after kicking a ball, or during the kickor the return.• A kick returner attempting to catch or recover a kick, or one whohas completed a catch or recovery and has not had time to protecthimself or has not clearly become a ball carrier..• A player on the ground.• A player obviously out of the play.• A player who receives a blind-side block.• A ball carrier already in the grasp of an opponent and whoseforward progress has been stopped.• A quarterback any time after a change of possessionFR-88 rule 9 / Conduct of Players and Others Subject to the Rules• A ball carrier who has obviously given himself up and is slidingfeet-first.

PENALTY—[ARTICLE 3 and ARTICLE 4]—15 yards. For dead-ballfouls, 15 yards from the succeeding spot. Automatic firstdown for fouls by Team B if not in conflict with otherrules. For fouls in the first half: Disqualification for theremainder of the game. (Rule 2-27-12) For fouls in thesecond half: Disqualification for the remainder of thegame and the first half of the next game. If the foul occursin the second half of the last game of the season, playerswith remaining eligibility shall serve the suspension duringthe postseason or the first game of the following season.The disqualification must be reviewed by Instant Replay(Rule 12-3-5). [S38, S24 and S47]When the Instant Replay Official reverses thedisqualification:If the targeting foul is not in conjunction with anotherpersonal foul by the same player, the 15-yard penalty fortargeting is not enforced. If the player commits anotherpersonal foul in conjunction with the targeting foul, the15-yard penalty for that personal foul is enforced accordingto rule. (A. R. 9-1-4-VII-VIII)For games in which Instant Replay is not used:If a player is disqualified in the first half, at the optionof the conference or by pre-game mutual agreement of theteams in inter-conference games, during the intermissionbetween halves the Referee will be provided a video of theplay in question for his review in the officials’ private securelocation. The Referee will review the video to determinewhether the disqualification is reversed. The decision of theReferee is final. (A. R. 9-1-4-IX)Note: The video source and the location of the review willbe determined prior to the game through mutual agreementof the teams and the Referee.If a player is disqualified in the second half, theconference has the option to consult the nationalcoordinator of football officials who would then facilitatea video review. Based on the review, if and only if thenational coordinator concludes that the player shouldnot have been disqualified, the conference may vacatethe suspension. If the national coordinator supports thedisqualification, the suspension for the next game willremain.
http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR17.pdf

Seems like the hit on Hurts falls within Article 3 as a penalty. The Ole Miss player clearly lead with the crown of his helmet and clearly aimed and hit in the head/neck area. Period.

It should have been a penalty. Period.

If you don't like the rule - too bad. It is for player safety and if you care about the sport and those playing it you'll understand why it is there. If changes like this are not made the sport goes away. Period. Maybe you'd like that better? And sorry, it's not any time in the past except for right now. Football has barely lived through several times in its history and we were approaching another of those times. I'm glad changes were made to preserve the sport and protect players. Since I'm not the one out there giving or taking these hits I don't think I should demand these kinds of hits remain legal so I can get a thrill out of the hits that result. Completely selfish and barbaric. I am all for a tough physical sport made as safe as possible through common sense rules that preserve the sport.

It will also be called on our players so you shouldn't be happy when it's not called against a team we are playing. Everyone else by one set of rules and us playing by another...well...um...yeah...

The officials, replay officials, and conference officials all looking at this play and not calling the penalty should be fined and suspended. Every. one. of. them.
 

TIDE-HSV

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Actually, driving the apex of his helmet into Hurts' chest, if that had been what happened, would have been illegal a long time before there was a targeting call...
 

B1GTide

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I agree with the folks who believe that officials are really trying to do their best, and they are trying to be objective and unbiased. But, just like us, it is impossible to be unbiased. We can't help our biases. I think that you see some of that evidenced in sports. Why does Cam Newton not get the same protection from the refs that Eli Manning gets? Because the officials see him as an athlete fully capable of defending himself on the field, and they see Eli as a defenseless QB. Same kind of thing probably applies to the Hurts call. It was a bad call, but I can see how things like that happen.

What I don't understand and cannot accept is ignorance. Know the rules or get another job. Every year games are lost because officials misapply rules.
 

BamaInMo1

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I could possibly see this not being a penalty {Ole Siss player leading with the crown of his helmet not withstanding} had JH been running the ball. JH was dropping back to pass.
If you want to fix the problem then force the conference(s) to fine (or fire if egregious enough) the officials on the field, the replay officials in the booth and the conference officials supposedly in this replay room in the conference office for such poor performance and lack of judgement/common sense. And as someone else said earlier in this thread the officials need to be full time employees instead of part time and should continuously have to attend mandatory rules training and clinics in the off season to make dang sure they know the rules and how they should be correctly applied.
Officiating is not just an SEC problem nor is it just a football problem. If they don't get a handle on this it will absolutely ruin sports period.


Edit: They also need to make officials have to pass a set of physical criteria to make sure they can keep up or put more officials on the field. Either way, I'm tired of all the excuses for such poor officiating.
 
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TIDE-HSV

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I could possibly see this not being a penalty {Ole Siss player leading with the crown of his helmet not withstanding} had JH been running the ball. JH was dropping back to pass.
If you want to fix the problem then force the conference(s) to fine (or fire if egregious enough) the officials on the field, the replay officials in the booth and the conference officials supposedly in this replay room in the conference office for such poor performance and lack of judgement/common sense. And as someone else said earlier in this thread the officials need to be full time employees instead of part time and should continuously have to attend mandatory rules training and clinics in the off season to make dang sure they know the rules and how they should be correctly applied.
Officiating is not just an SEC problem nor is it just a football problem. If they don't get a handle on this it will absolutely ruin sports period.


Edit: They also need to make officials have to pass a set of physical criteria to make sure they can keep up or put more officials on the field. Either way, I'm tired of all the excuses for such poor officiating.
Well, every time it's come up, the poorer schools have voted it down. It would be very expensive. Did you know 90% of NFL officials have a full-time job outside football?
 

rgw

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Quick google search to confirm my reckon: NFL officials get paid very well for what is basically a seasonal weekend warrior deal.

The average NFL referee salary was $173,000 in 2013, and it is set to rise to $201,000 by 2019. Note that the NFL season only lasts about half the year, and for most NFL referees, refereeing is not their only job.
As far as a second job goes, this has to be one of the better supplemental incomes out there! haha.

College officials get paid on a per game basis and from what I've gathered that payday maxes out at around $3K (likely for the head official) in the top conferences. The mid-majors likely struggle with getting quality because their monetary incentives might not jive with giving up most of your Fall weekends and potentially conflicting with your regular work schedule with mid-week games being common at the group of five level.
 

uaintn

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We keep sending out the same mediocre crews and expecting excellent results. And no, they aren't crooked, they are incompetent. And the league keeps leaning on the sports media not to discuss it.
 

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