In 2014, we scored a first half touchdown after a face mask penalty that was obvious to everyone but the official standing 10 feet away. We had a 10-point lead that did not vanish by itself. Let's not mock Texas and then blame injuries as a factor in our games. Ole Miss deserved to win in 2014, and they had enough firepower last year to give us all we wanted even without the fluke plays. Let's give credit where credit is due. They've earned it.
Ole Miss/Freeze one quarterback "miss" away from being Auburn/Malzahn
- Thread starter Bamabuzzard
- Start date
I'll take Freeze over Malzahn every day.
I do agree that, without a superior QB, Ole Miss doesn't stand a chance against us. BUT, I'll also add that they've needed a LOT of luck and bad officiating as well.
That said, I think you have to give Freeze a ton of credit (as well as the 'paid for' class) for what he's done with the football program at Ole Miss. I can see them always being competitive and winning under him. Maybe not at our pace or caliber; but near the top nonetheless. Which is a whole lot better than most of the 30-40 previous years at Ole Miss.
I do agree that, without a superior QB, Ole Miss doesn't stand a chance against us. BUT, I'll also add that they've needed a LOT of luck and bad officiating as well.
That said, I think you have to give Freeze a ton of credit (as well as the 'paid for' class) for what he's done with the football program at Ole Miss. I can see them always being competitive and winning under him. Maybe not at our pace or caliber; but near the top nonetheless. Which is a whole lot better than most of the 30-40 previous years at Ole Miss.
I'm not giving Ole Miss a dang bit of credit. They broke rules to get players from us and have the talent they've had. If those players aren't there the last two years - and without the cheating they wouldn't have been there - they lose even if we cough up the ball 5 times in a single game. Ole Miss can jump off a cliff.
Buzz,
If the argument you're postulating is that a miss at QB will hurt Ole Miss more than a miss at almost any position will hurt us, I'll concede that. Nobody in the country is as consistent as we are. Think about it. During our dynasty run, Ohio State had a .500 season, Michigan had a couple of losing seasons, USC had a .500 season, Texas has had losing seasons, etc.
But it would only be a season.
Let me tell you what Ole Miss' REAL problem is: they are incapable of adjusting and playing ball control offense once they get a lead. They cannot run the ball worth a damn. I know that we all look at 2010 Auburn and see a one-man Superman who put a mediocre team on his back and carried them to a national title. And some of that assessment has a certain level of truth.
But what made Cam Newton able to do what he did is the fact they had a 1,000-yard rusher (Michael Dyer) and another guy (McCalebb) who had about 800 or so. So you had 1800 yards rushing by other guys and another 1400 by Cam himself plus 2800 passing yards. While they couldn't have run it without Cam, he had sufficient help to prevent being one -dimensional.
Now look at Ole Miss rushing stats. In 2015, they had 2380 yards rushing. But Kelly had 663 of that; they had a back with 700 yards and two others with 400. Now look at those stats even closer - 338 rushing yards came in a wipeout of UT-Martin. They rushed for another 215 against Fresno State in yet another game they topped 70 points. Another 265 came against New Mexico State, yet a third cupcake.
So THIRTY-FOUR percent of their total rushing yards for the season came.....against three cupcakes in games that were decided before halftime. AKA - garbage rushing to get the game over with.
And what happens is this: their lack of a running game against REAL teams leads to them having short offensive possessions and their defense being on the field for LONG stretches of time.
Consider the following problems from 2015
vs Alabama - 92 yards rushing, 11 minute TOP deficit, and Ole Miss defense was on the field for ONE HUNDRED ONE PLAYS (59 passes, 42 runs). yeah, they won so nobody cared
vs Vandy - an even split in both rushing and TOP, but Ole Miss didn't look very good. Their defense was on the field for ANOTHER 84 plays
vs Florida - their defense was actually not on the field for very many plays but they kept giving Florida a short field with four turnovers and got blown out, 38-10
after a reprieve blowout of NM State, their defense then faced Memphis
vs Memphis - defense on the field for 94 plays and a fifteen-minute TOP differential in favor of Memphis, who won the game
vs ATM - okay, so Ole Miss finally had 230 yards rushing on over 50 attempts against the Ags, a good game; and they held the ball for 35 minutes, too
My point is that Ole Miss kills themselves because their one-dimensional passing game and inability to adjust to a ball control game against SEC defenses wears them down over the long haul.
If the argument you're postulating is that a miss at QB will hurt Ole Miss more than a miss at almost any position will hurt us, I'll concede that. Nobody in the country is as consistent as we are. Think about it. During our dynasty run, Ohio State had a .500 season, Michigan had a couple of losing seasons, USC had a .500 season, Texas has had losing seasons, etc.
But it would only be a season.
Let me tell you what Ole Miss' REAL problem is: they are incapable of adjusting and playing ball control offense once they get a lead. They cannot run the ball worth a damn. I know that we all look at 2010 Auburn and see a one-man Superman who put a mediocre team on his back and carried them to a national title. And some of that assessment has a certain level of truth.
But what made Cam Newton able to do what he did is the fact they had a 1,000-yard rusher (Michael Dyer) and another guy (McCalebb) who had about 800 or so. So you had 1800 yards rushing by other guys and another 1400 by Cam himself plus 2800 passing yards. While they couldn't have run it without Cam, he had sufficient help to prevent being one -dimensional.
Now look at Ole Miss rushing stats. In 2015, they had 2380 yards rushing. But Kelly had 663 of that; they had a back with 700 yards and two others with 400. Now look at those stats even closer - 338 rushing yards came in a wipeout of UT-Martin. They rushed for another 215 against Fresno State in yet another game they topped 70 points. Another 265 came against New Mexico State, yet a third cupcake.
So THIRTY-FOUR percent of their total rushing yards for the season came.....against three cupcakes in games that were decided before halftime. AKA - garbage rushing to get the game over with.
And what happens is this: their lack of a running game against REAL teams leads to them having short offensive possessions and their defense being on the field for LONG stretches of time.
Consider the following problems from 2015
vs Alabama - 92 yards rushing, 11 minute TOP deficit, and Ole Miss defense was on the field for ONE HUNDRED ONE PLAYS (59 passes, 42 runs). yeah, they won so nobody cared
vs Vandy - an even split in both rushing and TOP, but Ole Miss didn't look very good. Their defense was on the field for ANOTHER 84 plays
vs Florida - their defense was actually not on the field for very many plays but they kept giving Florida a short field with four turnovers and got blown out, 38-10
after a reprieve blowout of NM State, their defense then faced Memphis
vs Memphis - defense on the field for 94 plays and a fifteen-minute TOP differential in favor of Memphis, who won the game
vs ATM - okay, so Ole Miss finally had 230 yards rushing on over 50 attempts against the Ags, a good game; and they held the ball for 35 minutes, too
My point is that Ole Miss kills themselves because their one-dimensional passing game and inability to adjust to a ball control game against SEC defenses wears them down over the long haul.
Yeah, and doesn't Ole Miss get credit for causing the fumble on Jones and scoring the go ahead touchdown?
Both teams were on the same field, and didn't we have a bunch of injuries yesterday, too? We lost Ardarius Stewart early and later lost Foster, Fitzpatrick, and Eddie.
They still had to execute even if one buys that rather self-serving theory. Ole Miss wound up kicking a field goal yesterday despite being so close and LSU had a fumble deep in our territory ready for the kill shot in 2014 and didn't cash in.
But don't they get credit for forcing the turnovers? I mean, Ole Miss could use this very same argument and say, "Well, we lost by five and we gave them THREE TDs on a punt return, fumble recovery, and insane pick returned for TD, so we really should have won."
Btw - didn't you say you were at the game yesterday? Other than the one obnoxious fan (and I've had that at BDS, too), how was it?
Some act as though it's only Saban, but OM hadn't beaten Bama twice in a row until last year.
They had a magnificent run from the late 40s through the mid 60s with Vaught. The 12 years between 52 and 63, they won 6 SECC, had 7 0 or 1 loss, 4 2 loss and 1 3 loss seasons. From 59-63 they were 46-4-3, finishing 2, 2, 5, 3, 7 in the AP poll. They've never won a NC, but they were in contention. It was OM and to a lesser extent LSU, not UT, that Coach Bryant had to dethrone in the early 60s.
They went 45 years, from 1970 til last year without finishing ranked in the top 10. That seems to be their "natural" place. They've had 12 top 10 finishes in their history, 11 by Coach Vaught.
They had a magnificent run from the late 40s through the mid 60s with Vaught. The 12 years between 52 and 63, they won 6 SECC, had 7 0 or 1 loss, 4 2 loss and 1 3 loss seasons. From 59-63 they were 46-4-3, finishing 2, 2, 5, 3, 7 in the AP poll. They've never won a NC, but they were in contention. It was OM and to a lesser extent LSU, not UT, that Coach Bryant had to dethrone in the early 60s.
They went 45 years, from 1970 til last year without finishing ranked in the top 10. That seems to be their "natural" place. They've had 12 top 10 finishes in their history, 11 by Coach Vaught.
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I agree and coach Saban seems to agree from the tone of his presser. We beat a very good team with a QB that looked like Eli Manning back there.
Yes, that's what I'm saying. I'm also saying Ole Miss' offense lives and dies by the QB position. If they miss on that position everything else they do on offense (which feeds off the QB) doesn't go. We can have an "average" quarterback and still be a dominant team. Ole Miss cannot.
I think the jury is still out on Freeze, he could continue to get quality quarterbacks, but is improbable. In his career as Ole Miss, he is averaging about 4th in the West. NCAA investigation. But, he is at Ole Miss. So the chances of him faltering in recruiting by the rules is huge. Given their past, I am not writing him off yet.
They may not play afraid but after the NZAA get finished with them, you might not see Freeze coaching for a year. Now their season is gone, I would not be surprised that the SEC say to the NZAA go ahead and tell them what their punishment is. Its better to be during the season there wont get as much press if they wait untill February to announce the sanctions.
I'm curious to see the results of the NCAA investigation and the impact it will have on the direction of the program. L. Tunsil has already confirmed to the world that Ole Miss was paying players. Which explains the two top five classes they've had recently. But aside from buying recruiting classes, top five classes simply aren't apart of who they are or capable of doing on a consistent basis. Freeze in my opinion is in that same tier of coaches as Malzahn and Mullen at programs with similar offensive styles. I also wonder how Freeze's success would have looked like if he didn't have that #5 recruiting class in 2013 that produced three first round NFL draft picks in May (Treadwell, Nkemdiche, Tunsil), along with other very talented players that directly contributed to their "turn around"?
If I was a player, I would actually choose Mullen over Freeze. If the NCAA goes light on Ole Miss, and Freeze did put those paid players in the NFL, even if they stop paying, it would be a recruiting boost for Ole Miss. Like paying for a tier boost.
Imo, Ole Miss has been the 2nd best team in the SEC for a couple of season's. I have no idea what will happen, but I do know that like you concluded Ole Miss always needs a special quarterback. Archie, Eli and Kelly. Last year was Ole Sis's year and they blew it vs Arkansas. How fast they fall is the only thing I need to know, but last year was their once in a 25 year team.
Going back to the Vaught era; the Ole Miss offense has been predicated on having a QB who can run and throw and fast, sure handed receivers. As integration took hold in the south, Ole Miss clung to its image and, IMO, really hurt their recruiting of the AA players. Schools like Alabama, UT, LSU and UGA adjusted to the sweeping changes, OM stayed its course. Historically OM has struggled developing a complete team, very few good RBs, and defenses that could not play consistently with the SEC big boys.
After all these years it appears that under Freeze not much has changed at Ole Miss.
After all these years it appears that under Freeze not much has changed at Ole Miss.
On my way into the office this morning I was listening to CBS sports talk radio and they were discussing our game Saturday. They had an "X's & O's" guy on dissecting the game from that vantage point. He made the comment that the problem with Hugh Freeze and his philosophy is it's rooted out of 7 on 7 drills. His entire offense is rooted in that and that is the reason they struggle to run the ball. He basically said "Hugh Freeze doesn't know how to implement running the ball into his offense." They went onto say the inability to of Ole Miss to slow the game down, chew some clock and get away from the 7 on 7 mentality has cost them two early games this season. They wear down by the second half and compound that with their inability to run the ball and you get a team that is a first half team.
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They proposed the loss of 11 scholarships to the NCAA. We all know that's not going to get it. They will go back to being ole miss in the not too distant future.
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I'm not convinced the OP's premise is correct. Chad Kelley is good, but remember Bo Wallace? Bo Wallace is no Cam Newton. I think Freeze is a good coach and he will be a tough out no matter who he has pulling the trigger.
For the 2014 game I'm not as big on the injuries as my post seems to imply. I'm more saying there was a period in the game of growing pains with our offense, but we were still in position to win. But ole miss was the better and more prepared team that day. They won it outright.
2015: this one is the harder one. Even if we keep the Johnny manziel type play ,the illegal play that they ran was the ultimate deciding factor in the game even with all the turnovers. Kelly played phenomenal but take away the 2nd kickoff fumble and we probably win with spotting Coker a lesser deficit to overcome. That game is just too hard to say that they won it and we just didn't give the game away.
2016: I had a good time despite the obnoxious jerk, and the weather. It's a very nice campus. The stadium is ok for a program like ole miss. The fans were mostly nice, and way nicer than the ones I encountered last year at BDS. But then again most of them this year seemed to think they were going to get killed before the game compared to last year where they thought the opposite. But I know they were very rowdy when it was 24-3, but the air went out of the stadium when Eddie returned that punt. Even the guy behind me told his wife that they were going to lose because Hugh freeze took his foot off the gas. The only intolerable part of the game was the three reviews in a row that went our way. They started collectively saying things that I can't post. But after we won it was a great atmosphere because only Bama fans really remained, and people were chanting "ALA-BAMA" and "it's great-to be-from - ala-Bama " at the top of there lungs exiting the stadium. To sum it all into 1 word for the area... Gorgeous. For the game when it was over... Relief. For the overall experience... Worth it ( I know 2 words). I really enjoyed the time there, and now I'm planning my trip to Baton Rouge
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There are alot of college coaches out there with that 7 on 7 offense philosophy. Heck, we even played a lot like that on Saturday. It is what is being taught in the majority of high schools and it is what a majority of high school QB's coming into college can run without getting into a huge learning curve. It is why freshman QB's can come in and start immediately. It is probably the way college football will be played into the future. If you can land an athletic QB that can run and pass, it makes up for a lot of deficiencies elsewhere and makes you competitive quicker.
In regards to Freeze, I think it is selling him short to say that he is the same as Malzahn. I think he is a much better coach.
And I think as of right now there's no way to tell either way because Freeze hasn't been stuck with a Jeremy Johnson/Shawn White/John Franklin III to run his offense. But he'll get his chance to do so. Because he'll swing and miss on a QB and we'll get a chance to see what their offense does. Y'all just don't like Malzahn because of his pretty sweaters. :biggrin2:
I think it is more about their attacking style and how they take a lot of deep shots on offense. I'm always shocked that more teams don't take deep shots against us. The rules are set up to favor the offense so much, the deep shots seem to be about 66% guaranteed to gain at least 15 yards. They complete a third and get pass interference on about a third, and those plays give such a big lift in momentum.
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