Les Miles fired according to Sunday reports

Elefantman said:

The difference is you can walk in and "gauge" their interest for 20 bucks. Awbarn will need to walk in with 20 million bucks.

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and they will probably get the same end result, a stomach ache and a hand full of junk

81usaf92 said:

They might as well been on a plane last year. After losing to Bama and Arky the rumors started to come up. Booger, Brando, and spears were all saying there was some real truth to that at the time. It wasn't into the next week in Oxford that everything was known. I'll remind you walking into Tuscaloosa LSU was 7-0 with the heisman front runner, and the next week your back office is rumored to being inquiring about jimbo fisher through jimmy sexton?

So no this wasn't a pull the trigger firing it was a long drawn out thing. Richt was a pull the trigger firing and les was a tommy tuberville type firing. The simple fact that all these back door discussions were so public and the the governor got involved shows a complete mess in the back office. Same as auburn without them actually landing in Tallahassee, but again they might has well.

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They weren't on a plane. They never officially spoke to anyone. They never unofficially spoke to anyone. This was all backdoor stuff that goes on anytime a big name program is about to toss their coach. It's literally no big deal at all.

crimsonaudio said:

From what I heard last year when the 'fire Les' thing fell apart, Jimbo was pretty ticked about it as he agreed to a deal then LSU backed out...

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They could always throw in a "we're sorry about last year" signing bonus into the deal.

rgw said:

They weren't on a plane. They never officially spoke to anyone. They never unofficially spoke to anyone. This was all backdoor stuff that goes on anytime a big name program is about to toss their coach. It's literally no big deal at all.

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Jumbo might say that he had no contact with LSU. If you really believe that jumbo, sexton, or some other well positioned middle man didn't have contact with LSU then I have some time shares that I would be willing to sell you. Point is the president, governor, state legislature, and a portion of the fans told those back office folks to shut up and color. There was contact in some form or fashion

Fwiw if you don't believe that the back office of LSU isn't shifty and corrupt enough to do what I'm saying... Lookup joe alleva and duke. He is a very big yes man and a very controllable person.

rgw said:

They weren't on a plane. They never officially spoke to anyone. They never unofficially spoke to anyone. This was all backdoor stuff that goes on anytime a big name program is about to toss their coach. It's literally no big deal at all.

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We don't know this. The only reason we know about Auburn and Petrino was due to a journalist getting wind of it. That's it.

In related news, looks like Coach O fired Cam Cameron, not LSU.

LSU's decision to part ways with head football coach Les Miles and offensive coordinator Cam Cameron wasn't a package deal after all, a source with knowledge of the situation said Monday.

After replacing Miles on an interim basis Sunday, Ed Orgeron was given the option to make the call on LSU's embattled offensive coordinator, the source said.

Orgeron ultimately decided a major change in philosophy was needed and chose to elevate tight ends coach Steve Ensminger to the position. Ensminger, a former LSU quarterback, has been a coordinator at multiple stops in his 30-year career, including McNeese State, Louisiana Tech, Texas A&M and Clemson. He had been coaching tight ends at LSU since 2010.

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B1GTide said:

I must be doing a terrible job explaining my point of view because you guys are pretty smart and you think that I am saying something that I am not trying to say.

I am saying that Miles cannot beat Saban because Alabama is in the heads of his players and his coaching staff. Alabama expects to find a way to win those games, while LSU now expects to find a way to lose them. Most of the games have been very close, but the last 5 all went Alabama's way. What does that do to the psyche of a team?

For a while, because Miles won some of these match-ups, the players went into the season really believing that they could and should beat Alabama. The loss in 2014 ended that, IMO. And the way that you guys beat them last year was particularly crushing - you just ran the ball down their throats and beat them, strength on strength.

In college football, where championships are the goal, what happens in the mind of players who believe that their success in other games is meaningless because Alabama is just going to roll into town and take it all away in November? That has happened twice in the last 4 seasons. Alabama is living rent free in the minds of the players and coaches at LSU. That is the problem.

Can Miles beat Saban? He has in the past. More recently, Miles puts teams on the field physically capable of beating Alabama, but mentally incapable. Miles has them physically prepared. They match up well with you guys. But they just can't close the deal. Sure, the CEO has to take the fall for that, but not because he forgot how to do his job or because he just can't or won't keep up with the times.

The administration's only role in this is in deciding to meddle in Miles' program before they fired him, and doing so in a public way. Fire him or let him coach - his way. He isn't Mike Shula. He has earned that right.

But, if LSU wins those two close games (2012 ans 2014), or even one of those games (2014), Miles still has his job because his players would not have given up on him or his system. They wouldn't have 10 losses in their last 29 games. They would probably be undefeated right now, in this season.

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Also just about every LSU fan everywhere, IMO. That also played a role in his dismissal as well. Never seen anything quite like it.

Here's the bottom line though. You get fired if you can't beat Saban.

So, is every coach in the SEC on borrowed time as long as he's around? The only coaches who are going to be given job security are the coaches with fanbases rational enough to understand you can't count on consistently beating Nick Saban.

There's nothing wrong with that. Keep mixing it up until you find someone who can beat him. The college game has too much money in it now to be anything other than just like the NFL when it comes to job security. The days where there are a dozen to two dozen guys who are long-time active coaches that you identify with a program are over. You're getting 4 years to establish a winning program at the level that school thinks they can achieve or you're getting canned. If you start a gradual backslide like Richt or Miles, you are probably gone around 3-5 years into it. And the thing is, maybe Richt and Miles aren't bad coaches they just got stale at their current employer. Richt may do well at Miami (it has started out well enough for him). Miles might find a Big Ten job where he can leave on a more positive note.

I don't think there is anything wrong with firing a guy because he can't beat Nick Saban if your expectations are for your program to get past him and achieve the kind of goals Saban has at Alabama. They may never do it, but if that is their requirement then so be it. I'm never going to tell a program what they should expect from their program and I don't think LSU is being idiotic in thinking they can do it. After all the idiots who told Alabama to accept Shula mediocrity in 2006, I'm skeptical of those gas giants blowing their hot air about how LSU's AD is a big fat meanie, their boosters are scheming fools, and their fans are idiots.

I'm not a big fan of the LSU Athletic Director, or whatever he is. I thought it was extremely shortsighted to fire Miles at this point in the season.

rgw said:

There's nothing wrong with that. Keep mixing it up until you find someone who can beat him.

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I will start with this, I was given a timeout for my repeated assertions that Shula would never cut it. The difference was, he wasn't ever even close to being a national championship coach. Not just that, but we can take it a step further and look at Chizik, who had 0 track record of sustained success. When we talk about Fulmer, Miles, Brown, Bowden and Bryant, we talk about 5 coaches who won titles, 5 coaches who had sustained success, and 5 coaches who all had prolonged periods in which they struggled. Two of those coaches were given chance to right the ship, and the two examples we have of teams that fired one of their best coaches ever, struggled just to have winning seasons afterwards! So that's the risk/reward, you fire a great coach and may be you miss out on what is yet to come, and at the same time you risk having losing seasons. It's worked out great for Texas and Tennessee this year though right? May be this is the year they don't suck!

At the end of his rough patch Bear Bryant was 57. He's gone 6-5 in two consecutive seasons. He'd lost to Tennessee four years in a row. I'm just glad that any silly idea that he just couldn't cut it anymore wasn't enough to act on. Now I am not saying those fired coaches are as good as Bryant, but I am saying that both Bowden and Bryant hit a rough patch, and some people gave up on them mind you, and yet the best was yet to come. Texas and Tennessee are not likely to find another Fulmer or Brown anytime soon. May be LSU gets lucky, may be they're the exception, but firing one of your all time great coaches has proven to be ill advised in many cases, and what's the harm in sticking with a guy a little too long? FSU hung in there with Bowden, but it was a more seamless transition and they benefited from it. The whole let's run away this great coach and replace him with what ever crap we can find stuff is not a proven recipe for success.

B1GTide said:

In college football, where championships are the goal, what happens in the mind of players who believe that their success in other games is meaningless because Alabama is just going to roll into town and take it all away in November? That has happened twice in the last 4 seasons. Alabama is living rent free in the minds of the players and coaches at LSU. That is the problem.

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We have our own history with beleaguered coaches whose teams performed very well at times, but had a monkey on their back with respect to a cross-state rival. I don't think it necessarily affected the players with a mindset of futility, but it sure affected the fan and booster support.

KrAzY3 said:

Here's the bottom line though. You get fired if you can't beat Saban.

So, is every coach in the SEC on borrowed time as long as he's around? The only coaches who are going to be given job security are the coaches with fanbases rational enough to understand you can't count on consistently beating Nick Saban.

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Saban is currently the longest tenured head football coach in the SEC, so maybe the answer is yes, at least for those programs who expect to be competitive at the top.

Here's the thing: its not the 1960s anymore. This is the post-cable television contract reality and the stakes have steadily increased to the point that the stress of a college job really is no different than the pros. Heck, college may be more stressful because one recruiting miss could mean you're cooked. At least you get draft the rights to young talent in the the NFL...you own them in terms of football participation in the NFL and they have no choice in the matter until free agency.

Yeah, maybe 1969 Paul Bryant would've been canned by the Alabama administration. But he didn't coach in the era of ESPN, CBS, and bowl contracts made the sport worth billions of dollars due to immense public interest. He got the chance to reinvent himself. Dooley got the chance to hang around until he got a once in a lifetime tailback.

But those days are gone...it is the reality of the matter and the reason Les Miles was making millions/year while Vince and Bear were making typical collegiate high level administrator salaries.

KrAzY3 said:

Here's the bottom line though. You get fired if you can't beat Saban.

So, is every coach in the SEC on borrowed time as long as he's around? The only coaches who are going to be given job security are the coaches with fanbases rational enough to understand you can't count on consistently beating Nick Saban.

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Well... I haven't posted in forever, but... there's only one Saban. Maybe someday there will be a better college football coach -- and maybe my grand kids will live to see it. But, until then Saban is the best there is (and IMO ever has been) and he is at Alabama until he decides to retire... and the rest of us just have to deal with it. He rarely gets beaten and the way he has the program running now I think you're on top until he decides it's time to step down. So... the rest of us have to hope to get better every year and slip up and win an SEC championship and get to the playoffs. Otherwise, it's Alabama 1st and everyone else is somewhere way behind them.

Alabama22 said:

I'm not a big fan of the LSU Athletic Director, or whatever he is. I thought it was extremely shortsighted to fire Miles at this point in the season.

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The high powered boosters that wanted Miles gone last year finally got their way. They did not want another scenerio playing out where he wins some big games and rebuilds fan support so they have to look like goats for firing him at the end of the season. Now was the perfect time to let him go.

A lot of back and forth on here about LSU not beating Bama being a factor in LM's dismissal; sure it was.
Look, a few on here have spent a GREAT DEAL of time in lower Louisiana, and know that a victory over Bama for the who's means the world to them; it has for probably 50 years. But to say a loss to Bama one year is responsible for a DIFFERENT team playing poorly and losing games they shouldn't the following year is, well, nonsense; if you believe LM can coach.
Yes, the who's could have beaten Bama once or twice in these last five games, still lost two or three games (especially if one was the SECCG) and LM would still have a job. They ALWAYS play their best game against Bama; if you don't believe me, check your history.
And no, athletically, especially the last few years, he hasn't had the same quality/quantity of athletes Bama has had (already posted); so there's little credibility to the thought that they would be unbeaten so far this year if they had beaten Bama last year. Their offense is pathetic, they haven't had a decent QB in years.
The fact that they played terrible when playing teams they should beat is the fault of the coaches and players. The fact they played their best against Bama shows you that it's not just another game to them, but they could never play even 8 or 9 games at that level with LM the last few years. That's the problem.
I am not one who thinks LM is a "great" coach; IMO (and I know others won't agree) NS couldn't go 37-14 in four years and survive either, especially starting the next year 2-2 (I don't think he would keep coaching if it got that bad - one 8-5 might be his last).. Is that due to recruiting or coaching? Both, in my mind. But it all falls on LM. They should have let him go last year. But they have his replacement in mind, I'd bet, to fire him this early in the season. Too bad for them if it blows up like last year.

BamainBoston said:

I can't believe I'm seeing Les Miles compared to Bear Bryant. This world, man.

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KrAzY3 said:

Now I am not saying those fired coaches are as good as Bryant, but I am saying that both Bowden and Bryant hit a rough patch, and some people gave up on them

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I'm not comparing coaching ability, I am comparing circumstance. For instance, if you believe just repeatedly losing to a team is merit for firing someone, then Bryant should have been fired. I think that's a silly way to go about things though.

Bear Bryant had 3 titles before his rough patch and 3 titles after. I think it's easy to argue that his 3 titles were more than enough to get him through his rough patch. In the case of Brown and Miles though, they were Nick Saban in the NFL away from having 2 titles each. Now, does that put them on the same level as Bryant? No, does it put them on the same level as Saban? Obviously not, but it does seem to me to put them ahead of 99% of the college coaches out there and makes replacing them very difficult.

BamainBoston said:

Was Bear Bryant routinely bringing in the best talent in the country and then falling flat on his face with it? Did he refuse to change, even as the game was changing around him? Was he consistently outclassed by another coach in his own conference? The only similarity is that they both hit a rough patch. Every other variable is different.

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And there wasn't a feeling Bryant won his title with a former coaches' players.

Talk about Miles' title as reason for him to stay. Just admit that appearance came with more stars aligning than what Alabama needed in 2011 and 2012 combined.

BamainBoston said:

Was Bear Bryant routinely bringing in the best talent in the country and then falling flat on his face with it? Did he refuse to change, even as the game was changing around him? Was he consistently outclassed by another coach in his own conference? The only similarity is that they both hit a rough patch. Every other variable is different.

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That's a really weird question if you think about it. Is it somehow better to not bring in talent and lose? Is that a resolution? There's only a handful of coaches in the country capable of consistently producing top ten classes. This is in fact some of the criticism we did hear about Saban to, I think someone posted something like "I'm tired of seeing Saban losing when he has the most talent on the field" and, that might have just been one loss, but it was the same sentiment. Saban gets extra criticism when he does lose sometimes because of how well he's recruited.

That aside, Bear Bryant, after four years of struggling did change things up and go to the wishbone. This worked, but you can't omit the fact that he was given that fifth year, to make the change. If you think his two 6 win teams lacked talent though, and he just forgot how to recruit a couple of years I think you're mistaken.

The position I've made is clear though. If you just make up these rules and enforce them, like Bryant losing with talent, then you show the logical holes in the argument. How is it by the way not falling flat on his face when Bryant did it but falling flat on his face when Miles did it? Do I need to point out that Bryant lost to LSU, Auburn, and Tennessee twice in a row, and yes with top talent? The point is obviously great coaches can struggle for extended periods of time.

What I said earlier though is, if you give these guys 6 years and you really see no end do it, yeah ok I get it. But 4 years, or in the case of Les Miles, what are we saying, 10-3 is falling flat on his face? No, of course not, so really we're saying he struggled for a little over two seasons and that's enough to get him fired. Alright, I'm happy with it because unless they hit it out of the park with their next hire, they'll end up like Tennessee and Texas. And by the way, I was critical of the Texas move to and need I remind anyone they've been 13-15? Who knows though, may be this year will be a winning season. They did beat a 3 loss team in double overtime, so there's that.

RTR91 said:

And there wasn't a feeling Bryant won his title with a former coaches' players.

Talk about Miles' title as reason for him to stay. Just admit that appearance came with more stars aligning than what Alabama needed in 2011 and 2012 combined.

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If not for his 2011 season, and sustained success in recruiting (and on the field) I'd tend to agree with that assessment. But, the fact is that 2011 team was all Les Miles, and that team didn't let anyone besides Alabama come within two touchdowns of them. They were one of the best teams of the BCS era. We're talking about a guy who won 44 games over 4 seasons well removed from Nick Saban's recruits. Even Nick Saban can't believe he was fired.

BamainBoston said:

Was Bear Bryant routinely bringing in the best talent in the country and then falling flat on his face with it? Did he refuse to change, even as the game was changing around him? Was he consistently outclassed by another coach in his own conference? The only similarity is that they both hit a rough patch. Every other variable is different.

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By most historian's accounts, his talent level seemed to be declining after that near 3peat run. The way it was going in this state, the minority talent base was quickly becoming the center of talent in Alabama and he was having political trouble tapping into it. Once he got Alabama integrated, he went right back to winning.