Question: How good was Howard schnellenberger and what does his career mean to coaches now?

81usaf92

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First,I apologize if the title is a bit confusing, and ask the mods to edit it if it is. But I was driving just awhile ago, and was listening to finebaum. As I said previously in another thread, I don't listen for football insight just and just for moronic entertainment. But a caller from Louisville called in and brought up Howard, and more specifically how he put 2 bottom feeders on the map only to bolt for a bigger job that didn't pan out. He also said Petrino learned the same lesson that Howard learned, but was blessed with a better situation than Howard ever was (ACC expansion, new field, and other perks)This got finebaum to ask the question " how good was Howard, and what would we view him as if he stayed at Miami or Louisville by today's standards." He said he can't think of many people that ever place him in the conversation of "great" coaches because how his post Miami and Louisville careers turned out. And he further led into the question "should tom Herman look at Howard's debacle at Oklahoma and steer clear of big time jobs until the chips are more in his favor?"

So my question has two parts:

1) how good was schnellenberger?

And

2) is Howard and Bobby Petrino proof that you can be a great coach without coaching at an elite and a deep conference, and if so should Herman take their examples.
 

pcfixup

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1) how good was schnellenberger?
Schellenberger was very good. At Miami however he benefited from two things:
  1. Florida's NCAA troubles under Charlie Pell ... and
  2. The beginnings of an boom of football talent out of that state that lasted almost 20 years

2) is Howard and Bobby Petrino proof that you can be a great coach without coaching at an elite and a deep conference, and if so should Herman take their examples.
I think Miami was an independent when Schellenberger was there. I believe both him and Petrino got buy-in from their admins and boosters.
 

4Q Basket Case

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From purely a coaching standpoint (strategy, Xs and Os, talent evaluation and recruiting) Schnellenberger was outstanding. He was also deeply flawed (booze, women, and a bad tendency to "forget" prodigious bar tabs and other debts), and that limited him.

Don't ask me how I know, because I can't say. And all that stuff took place well before the mainstream sports press took to tabloidism, so I'm not aware of any links. Let's just say that when his time on Bryant's staff ended, not many people in Tuscaloosa were sad to see him go.

If you need some corroboration, do some research into the reason his stint at Oklahoma lasted only one year, and ended at a time other than the end of a season. I'm sure Selma can quote chapter and verse.

Anyway, coaching abilities aside, he could never have operated as he did, and survived in the Internet / talk radio era. I'm not sure he was constitutionally capable of doing anything else.

His career should be a cautionary tale. But college football coaching egos don't pay much attention to such things.

Correction:. He did leave Oklahoma at the end of the season. Don't know where the statement otherwise came from.
 
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bama61

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From purely a coaching standpoint (strategy, Xs and Os, talent evaluation and recruiting) Schnellenberger was outstanding. He was also deeply flawed (booze, women, and a bad tendency to "forget" prodigious bar tabs and other debts), and that limited him.

Don't ask me how I know, because I can't say. And all that stuff took place well before the mainstream sports press took to tabloidism, so I'm not aware of any links. Let's just say that he left a lot of hurt feelings in Tuscaloosa when his stint on Bryant's staff ended.

If you need some corroboration, do some research into the reason his stint at Oklahoma lasted only one year, and ended at a time other than the end of a season. I'm sure Selma can quote chapter and verse.

Anyway, coaching abilities aside, he could never have operated as he did, and survived in the Internet / talk radio era. I'm not sure he was constitutionally capable of doing anything else.
A very good coach but as stated above one with some serious flaws, however many of those were forgivable so far as the GOBs were concerned, however many could not stand his wife. Although a good coach, there was little chance of his ever getting the job. Some irony there given the things that occurred during Mike DuBose's tenure.
 

selmaborntidefan

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1) how good was schnellenberger?
He's a carbon copy of Bobby Ross - an average to above average head coach at best but certainly not awful.

Both guys coached 27 years although Ross had about a decade of that in the NFL. Both guys had 13 seasons out of 27 where their records were either .500 or less (e.g. losing seasons). Both won fluke national championships in college that neither probably deserved. Ross has the additional accomplishment of making the Super Bowl but Howard offsets that as an assistant who won 3 national titles at Alabama and a Super Bowl with the 72 Dolphins while Ross had no real accomplishments as an assistant.



2) is Howard and Bobby Petrino proof that you can be a great coach without coaching at an elite and a deep conference, and if so should Herman take their examples.
No, because Howard isn't a great coach. Petrino's record is pretty good but how much credit does he actually deserve? His first year at Louisville he went 9-4...but the team he took over went 11-2 just two years earlier and 9-3 three years earlier. So his record is certainly better but he didn't have to start from the ground up like Schnellenberger did. But setting aside the personal issues, Petrino certainly seems to be accomplished (if we forget the NFL for a moment).

But remember: Petrino hasn't actually accomplished ANYTHING yet. He's never even gotten a team into serious consideration for a championship. His 2006 team was expected to contend and they did go 12-1 - but then after the game they HAD to win, they suffered a letdown and lost to Rutgers.

The trick for Herman is to not be at Houston when you stop winning. So in short, Howard was NOT a 'great' coach, he was an average to above average at best, and it really doesn't touch on Herman at all.
 

TideMan09

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Just out of curiosity..At one time wasn't he in the running to become our HC or I'm I mistaken cause I was a kid back in his heyday & not sure if I'm thinking of another HC..If he had become our HC how do y'all think he would've done at Bama as our HC..
 

selmaborntidefan

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If you need some corroboration, do some research into the reason his stint at Oklahoma lasted only one year, and ended at a time other than the end of a season. I'm sure Selma can quote chapter and verse.
With all due respect, he DID finish the 1995 season and resigned in December. (I even recall watching the Colorado-OU first half that exposed him that year on September 30, but the wife at the time got in the mood, and I never saw the second half but I digress; and yes, I even recall that I ate at Spageddies for lunch because it was the same day we beat Georgia and QB Hines Ward, 31-0).

But Howard was rumored to have gotten in trouble for what Rich Rod did per his players - more than 20 hours practice a week. More importantly, however, there were rumors he was actually drinking at practice (and if you ever saw the guy interviewed, you seriously wondered if he was EVER sober). Schnelly, of course, DENIED the drinking allegation had anything to do with it.

If he had not resigned, David Boren would have fired him anyway. After ONE season. In fact, they didn't even hold a news conference to announce him quitting!!!

(I did not know about what you were saying - but just based on what I've seen of him on TV, it wouldn't surprise me).
 

4Q Basket Case

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Just out of curiosity..At one time wasn't he in the running to become our HC or I'm I mistaken cause I was a kid back in his heyday & not sure if I'm thinking of another HC..If he had become our HC how do y'all think he would've done at Bama as our HC..
Due to his success in Miami and Louisville, there was some talk in the press. But because of his history in Tuscaloosa, there was no way it was ever going to happen
 

selmaborntidefan

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Just out of curiosity..At one time wasn't he in the running to become our HC or I'm I mistaken cause I was a kid back in his heyday & not sure if I'm thinking of another HC..If he had become our HC how do y'all think he would've done at Bama as our HC..
I never heard his name come up, but I was overseas when the replacement for Bryant was chosen (and boy have I heard numerous names on THAT one). I did not hear his name during the 1987 search when we got Curry (I DID hear Bobby Bowden's name that time). You have to remember that Bobby Bowden in the spring of 1987 was NOT the Bobby Bowden we all recall. He was considered a solid coach but he had not even started his long run of top five finishes at Florida State. Bowden's name also came up in 1990, and though I didn't read about it anywhere - I know some folks here have said that Bowden assumed the job was his and they wanted him to interview for it (but I don't know if that was 1987 or 1990). When he got done with Alabama's frisking, Bowden signed a lifetime contract with FSU a few days later.

I can guess his name MIGHT have been mentioned if Perkins had gotten fired coming off of 1984. But I honestly don't recall hearing his name for our head coach.
 

Sabanizer

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Schnellenberger is beyond his years but he built Miami. They had a lot of talent in skill positions and he went elsewhere to find the beef he needed. One of the top 40 coaches of all time imo. He is the Spurrier of South Florida after the Maimi's rise from the cocaine years. Went from sleepy town to a hot spot. He was there at the right time. I do believe most of the great players were paid. Billions pouring into the area.

They were playing the great Orange Bowl. They never built the infrastructure after it all came crashing down.
 
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Isaiah 63:1

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Probably at 35k or in an airport somewhere
Just out of curiosity..At one time wasn't he in the running to become our HC...
I'm not sure what the PTB thought, but in 1989, when dissatisfaction with Bill Curry was becoming more than merely fashionable, Schnellenberger was a fan favorite to a degree. In fact, I was in the stands in Jackson the day we started out down 21-0 to Ole Miss part way through the 1st quarter. At that point, from somewhere in the Alabama section, I heard a sound rising up through our woe; it started in low; but it started to grow:

[size=-2]Schnellenberger[/size]
Schnellenberger
[size=+2]Schnellenberger[/size]

Of course, we came back to win that game 62 -27. I don't think I heard Schnellenberger's name mentioned again until the following year's Fiesta Bowl...
 

selmaborntidefan

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Here's something of an answer:

Alabama interim coach Jimmy Fuller and Louisville's Howard Schnellenberger Wednesday requested consideration in the search for a successor to departing Crimson Tide Coach Ray Perkins.

University President Joab Thomas named Fuller interim coach moments after Perkins announced his resignation to accept a job as coach and vice president of the NFL's Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Fuller played at Alabama and was head coach at Jacksonville State.

Thomas said he had several coaching candidates in mind, but would not name them. He said a new coach would be named as soon as possible.

'We will move with dispatch,' Thomas said. 'I can't tell you more than that. We will make a nationwide search.'

Although Perkins served as coach and athletic director, Thomas said he would appoint and lead the search committee to find a candidate for each post. Thomas named Harry Knopke, his executive assistant, interim athletic director.

'Something I always wanted to do was be at the University of Alabama,' said Fuller, the top assistant under Perkins. 'I have no plans to pursue any other job at any time. I am where I want to be.'

Schnellenberger, who played under late Alabama coach Paul 'Bear' Bryant at Kentucky and was anassistant under him at Alabama, said he was 'very interested' in the job
. Schnellenberger led Miami to a national championship in 1983 before resigning to become coach at Louisville, his alma mater.

Other candidates mentioned for the job include Florida State Coach Bobby Bowden and Clemson Coach Danny Ford. Texas A&M Coach Jackie Sherill said Tuesday he does not want to leave his present position and indicated he could not get out of his contract if he so desired.

=====================


Schnellenberger Clarifies His Interest Remarks and Is Staying At Louisville
Oh, and here's another one: https://news.google.com/newspapers?...MxdAAAAIBAJ&sjid=010NAAAAIBAJ&pg=3952,1903894


And it seems that in 1990, Schnellenberger might have been the original Houston Nutt - his name isn't even connected with the search but he publicly announces he will not pursue the job.


This article from 1987 lists Bowden and Schnellenberger as the top two candidates for the job.

And finally - for now - in 1990, speculation was rampant:

They include Bobby Bowden, coach at Florida State, where Ingram was AD before coming to Alabama last year; fired Phoenix Cardinals coach Gene Stallings, former assistant to the late Bear Bryant at Alabama; Louisville coach Howard Schnellenberger, also a former Bryant assistant; Richard Williamson, a former Alabama player who`s now an assistant with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers; and Jimmy Fuller, a Curry aide and a member of national title teams under Bryant.
 

B1GTide

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Post #4 in this thread.

BTW -- How do you post a link to a post on Tidefans? I've done it in the distant past, but have forgotten how to locate the URL for an individual post.
The number of the post (yours is #16) is also a link to that particular post. Right click the number for options.
 

TiderMan

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Here's something of an answer:

Alabama interim coach Jimmy Fuller and Louisville's Howard Schnellenberger Wednesday requested consideration in the search for a successor to departing Crimson Tide Coach Ray Perkins.

University President Joab Thomas named Fuller interim coach moments after Perkins announced his resignation to accept a job as coach and vice president of the NFL's Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Fuller played at Alabama and was head coach at Jacksonville State.

Thomas said he had several coaching candidates in mind, but would not name them. He said a new coach would be named as soon as possible.

'We will move with dispatch,' Thomas said. 'I can't tell you more than that. We will make a nationwide search.'

Although Perkins served as coach and athletic director, Thomas said he would appoint and lead the search committee to find a candidate for each post. Thomas named Harry Knopke, his executive assistant, interim athletic director.

'Something I always wanted to do was be at the University of Alabama,' said Fuller, the top assistant under Perkins. 'I have no plans to pursue any other job at any time. I am where I want to be.'

Schnellenberger, who played under late Alabama coach Paul 'Bear' Bryant at Kentucky and was anassistant under him at Alabama, said he was 'very interested' in the job
. Schnellenberger led Miami to a national championship in 1983 before resigning to become coach at Louisville, his alma mater.

Other candidates mentioned for the job include Florida State Coach Bobby Bowden and Clemson Coach Danny Ford. Texas A&M Coach Jackie Sherill said Tuesday he does not want to leave his present position and indicated he could not get out of his contract if he so desired.

=====================


Schnellenberger Clarifies His Interest Remarks and Is Staying At Louisville
Oh, and here's another one: https://news.google.com/newspapers?...MxdAAAAIBAJ&sjid=010NAAAAIBAJ&pg=3952,1903894


And it seems that in 1990, Schnellenberger might have been the original Houston Nutt - his name isn't even connected with the search but he publicly announces he will not pursue the job.


This article from 1987 lists Bowden and Schnellenberger as the top two candidates for the job.

And finally - for now - in 1990, speculation was rampant:

They include Bobby Bowden, coach at Florida State, where Ingram was AD before coming to Alabama last year; fired Phoenix Cardinals coach Gene Stallings, former assistant to the late Bear Bryant at Alabama; Louisville coach Howard Schnellenberger, also a former Bryant assistant; Richard Williamson, a former Alabama player who`s now an assistant with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers; and Jimmy Fuller, a Curry aide and a member of national title teams under Bryant.
The article from Jan of 1987 was interesting - no mention of Bill Curry at all and that Bobby Bowden being 57 years old was an issue. Heck he only coached another 23 seasons. Joab Thomas hiring of Curry really came out of left field.
 

FThomas

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A couple of points: Florida's recruiting violations penalties (85-86) did not take place until Schnellenberger had left, so that was not really a factor. He just really built a fence around Miami, and there was a ton of talent there.

I think he was an above average coach who had a knack for taking teams way, way down on their luck and reviving them. He resurrected Miami after football almost disappeared, he resurrected Louisville when they were talking about going to Division1-AA, and he built Florida Atlantic fairly quickly from non-existent to 1-AA playoffs, to 1_S Sun Belt Conference champions.. However, I have my doubts on his ability to sustain that success over time. He wont a Coach of the Year, a national title, and a Sun Belt conference title (Miami and Louisville were non-conference teams when he coached there or he would have more). he was also one heck of a fundraiser. basically had a skill set that allowed him to build dormant struggling programs. However, the problems listed above by other posters would likely have prevented him from having much success at larger programs that have powerful alumni and boosters.
 
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B1GTide

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A couple of points: Florida's recruiting violations penalties (85-86) did not take place until Schnellenberger had left, so that was not really a factor. He just really built a fence around Miami, and there was a ton of talent there.
This was the biggest part, but he also embraced the culture of the city of Miami and incorporated that swagger into everything that they did, on and off the field. He not only pulled in all of the local talent, but he created an identity that the community, players and recruits loved. Everywhere that I went in the US, folks were wearing Hurricane gear - people with no connection to the area or school. Being a solid head coach was all that was required at that point. There was no Nick Saban in college football at the time.
 

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