Jalen Hurts - Legit Heisman candidate?

They were not true freshman.

JustNeedMe81 said:

Never was an issue for Mark Ingram, AJ Mcarron and Derrick Henry.... They went to NY......

Click to expand...

JBama_in_PCOLA said:

You're right, but they're not about to invite a defensive player.


Sent from my iPhone 7 Plus [emoji336] using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

They will probably invite Peppers this year, but he won't win. Allen should definitely be in the conversation but he doesn't return punts or kickoffs, which seems to be a requirement for a defensive player. Truthfully though, it should be Jackson this year. He is an excellent player. Louisville is in the playoff hunt (unless UH wins Thursday). They would be a 3-4 loss team without him.

I hope he wins and we get UL in the playoffs so he he can get to know the Bama front seven up close and personal.

If the voting took place right now, Hurts might make the trip, but could he without picking up more than a handful of #1 votes? Jackson is from the same region of the country, so would take all of Hurts' potential #1 votes. Peppers plays in a different region so will pick up more #1 votes. Same could be said for the QBs from Washington and Clemson right now, but if they drop another game they are toast.

IMO, for Hurts to get invited, these other players need to suffer setbacks. Just being ranked this high doesn't equate to getting votes in a system that has a huge regional bias. Hurts isn't going to get many votes outside of the South right now.

Alasippi said:

Jalen is about the tenth best player on the Alabama football team. He has no business going to New York, unless he's flying up there to accompany Jonathan Allen or Tim Williams at the ceremony.
In two years though, he could own that trophy. He's mighty darn good, but he has room for improvement.

Click to expand...

Ingram wasn't your best player in 2009. He won it anyway, and he did a lot less for that team than Hurts is doing for this one.

Alasippi said:

Jalen is about the tenth best player on the Alabama football team. He has no business going to New York, unless he's flying up there to accompany Jonathan Allen or Tim Williams at the ceremony.
In two years though, he could own that trophy. He's mighty darn good, but he has room for improvement.

Click to expand...

Agree with you Sip. He has a great surrounding cast and that is the reason for the talk. I like Jalen and would not trade him for any other QB, but IMO, he may not be the best freshman QB in the SEC.

CoachJeff said:

Nope, it will be Lamar Jackson next year.

Click to expand...

Just like it was a lock for Deshaun Watson this year? Tebow his next year? Johnny Football his next year?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

JBama_in_PCOLA said:

You're right, but they're not about to invite a defensive player.


Sent from my iPhone 7 Plus [emoji336] using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Suh. If JA has another superman moment or a 5 sack game or a NOT he'll be discussed again. I really wish they had a defensive award equivalent to the Heisman. Although JA has literally dominated his position in every game he's been put on the back burner discussion wise because he hasn't been covered since he went flying on Trevor Knight.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

bamacon said:

Suh. If JA has another superman moment or a 5 sack game or a NOT he'll be discussed again. I really wish they had a defensive award equivalent to the Heisman. Although JA has literally dominated his position in every game he's been put on the back burner discussion wise because he hasn't been covered since he went flying on Trevor Knight.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

I agree - football is missing the boat by not awarding a Heisman equivalent for the best defensive player each year. It would get a ton of attention from the fans and media.

B1GTide said:

I agree - football is missing the boat by not awarding a Heisman equivalent for the best defensive player each year. It would get a ton of attention from the fans and media.

Click to expand...

Well, they do have the Nagurski and Bednarik awards, but they definitely don't have the hype, coverage or prestige of the Heisman. I don't know how you would make one equivalent to it because technically defensive players are eligible for the Heisman (as well as the Maxwell and Walter Camp). There are no strictly offensive POTY awards that aren't position specific (because that guy normally wins the overall awards).

It sucks for the defensive guys but typically the glory goes to the scorers. Even in the days when the defenses were much more dominant and appreciated, the casual fans remember the QBs and RBs.

Alasippi said:

Jalen is about the tenth best player on the Alabama football team. He has no business going to New York, unless he's flying up there to accompany Jonathan Allen or Tim Williams at the ceremony.

Click to expand...

I understand the point, but given the QB bias and defensive player bias, he does deserve to be in the discussion. It isn't just that he's the only QB in a major conference with an undefeated season, it goes beyond that.

Hurts leads the SEC in rushing TDs. Now, stop and think about that a second. Didn't the SEC have Heisman candidates at the position coming into the season? And it's Hurts who has the most TDs? Then look over at passer ratings. Hurts is third in the SEC. He's behind Chad Kelly, who is out for the season and at one point whose name came up for the Heisman. The only other guy he's behind is Sean White, who has less yards, less touchdowns, less attempts (but more sacks). Hurts statistically speaking is one of the better passers in the SEC as well.

Then there's the leadership aspect, and there's no question Hurts is elite in that regard. He's also come up big in a couple of games when Alabama needed him. Now, do I think he's going to win the Heisman? No, I don't. But, if he can pad his stats and have a couple of good games, is there any question in my mind that he deserves to go to New York? No, there is not. And I add this. If Louisville loses again, and if Hurts finishes strong there's going to be a case to be made for his winning the trophy.

TampaTide813 said:

They will probably invite Peppers this year, but he won't win. Allen should definitely be in the conversation but he doesn't return punts or kickoffs, which seems to be a requirement for a defensive player. Truthfully though, it should be Jackson this year. He is an excellent player. Louisville is in the playoff hunt (unless UH wins Thursday). They would be a 3-4 loss team without him.

I hope he wins and we get UL in the playoffs so he he can get to know the Bama front seven up close and personal.

Click to expand...

After that loss to Iowa, IOWA, I doubt it. Plus, his name isn't really being said.


Sent from my iPhone 7 Plus [emoji336] using Tapatalk

bamacon said:

Suh. If JA has another superman moment or a 5 sack game or a NOT he'll be discussed again. I really wish they had a defensive award equivalent to the Heisman. Although JA has literally dominated his position in every game he's been put on the back burner discussion wise because he hasn't been covered since he went flying on Trevor Knight.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

I'm sure he'll win whatever lineman award, but yeah he's taken a step back a bit and this week's game won't help.


Sent from my iPhone 7 Plus [emoji336] using Tapatalk

B1GTide said:

Ingram wasn't your best player in 2009. He won it anyway, and he did a lot less for that team than Hurts is doing for this one.

Click to expand...

I strongly disagree with this. Ingram was the heart and soul of that team. He carried the team offensively the WHOLE year and especially in Oct. when Gmac had an awful month and we were completely 1-dimensional. He was also phenomenal in the SECCG and BCSCG. You take Ingram off that team and I guarantee we don't win the SEC or NC. We probably lose 3 games. People easily forget how awesome he was because of his misuse in the NFL.

As for Hurts I wouldn't quite say that 9 other players are definitely better. The ones that are probably would be on the defensive side I agree. Most people probably don't realize though that aside from his 2,003 yrds passing and 15 passing TD's that he is 2nd on the team in rushing yards (735) by only 24 yrds and that his 11 rushing TD's are actually #1 in the SEC this year. More than Fournette, Guice, Johnson or Pettway from the barn, Chubb or Michell, Josh Dobbs or Trevor Knight.....more than anyone.

He makes mistakes and his passes need polish but we aren't undefeated without him. Though as a Heisman candidate......I dunno. I'd rather not have that distraction for a TF QB who isn't allowed to speak to the press as it is anyway. But I can't with a straight face say 9 other guys on the team are definitely better. JMO though.

Ingram may not have been the best player even on just the offense but he was the most important player to that team. tusks hits the nail on the head: we wouldn't have made it out of October 8-0 in 2009 if not for Ingram and the defense. Greg McElroy hit a massive first-year-starter wall around the Ole Miss game and it took until the 2nd half of the LSU game (God only knows the chewing he took in that locker room) for him to come out of it.

rgw said:

Ingram may not have been the best player even on just the offense but he was the most important player to that team. tusks hits the nail on the head: we wouldn't have made it out of October 8-0 in 2009 if not for Ingram and the defense. Greg McElroy hit a massive first-year-starter wall around the Ole Miss game and it took until the 2nd half of the LSU game (God only knows the chewing he took in that locker room) for him to come out of it.

Click to expand...

What would your W/L record have been without McClain that year? Remember, you lost Hightower to injury early in the season. Ingram was important, and he is one of my favorite all-time players for Alabama, but he was not your best player - probably not in the top 5. That was my point. So, Hurts is not your best player this year. Should we discount his Heisman potential because of that? Not in my opinion.

Maybe they can give the Heisman to the whole team. The defense won an award they usually give to individuals. I am glad we finally won a Heisman but to be honest it would not bother if we dont win another one. I prefer national championships.

B1GTide said:

What would your W/L record have been without McClain that year? Remember, you lost Hightower to injury early in the season. Ingram was important, and he is one of my favorite all-time players for Alabama, but he was not your best player - probably not in the top 5. That was my point. So, Hurts is not your best player this year. Should we discount his Heisman potential because of that? Not in my opinion.

Click to expand...

Well, right, basically saying the same thing here. And I definitely think the Heisman is a very fluid award. That is what makes it an interesting award. Some years people put an emphasis on being the linchpin to a championship quality team (Ingram, Winston, Henry). Some years people put the emphasis on statistical excellence (Tebow, RG3). Some years people put the emphasis on producing the most memorable moments of the season (Manziel). Some times it is a career achievement award (Dayne, Couch).

Moro Creek said:

Agree with you Sip. He has a great surrounding cast and that is the reason for the talk. I like Jalen and would not trade him for any other QB, but IMO, he may not be the best freshman QB in the SEC.

Click to expand...

Indisputably the best freshman team-leading player and oh by the way best QB difference maker in the SEC, too - get ready to be surprised at the company he's invited to keep in the Apple in a few weeks.

rgw said:

Ingram may not have been the best player even on just the offense but he was the most important player to that team. tusks hits the nail on the head: we wouldn't have made it out of October 8-0 in 2009 if not for Ingram and the defense. Greg McElroy hit a massive first-year-starter wall around the Ole Miss game and it took until the 2nd half of the LSU game (God only knows the chewing he took in that locker room) for him to come out of it.

Click to expand...

He literally won the USCe game for Bama. Well him and the OL but everyone in the stadium knew what the play was, who was getting it, and where he was going.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk