Obamacare Architect 'The Law Is Working As Designed-We Need a Larger Mandate Penalty'

He's correct, it is working like planned. The dems have wanted a single payer, Canadian style system, and this is leading straight to it. What will happen is the government will pay the larger amount the plan is going up and eventually no insurance companies will want to be a part of it so then D.C. takes control of your health care unless you can afford to pay the private insurers.

We do need a larger mandate penalty. The current anemic penalty destroys the risk pool and is a huge contributor to the rising premiums we now see. That's not all the ACA needs, but it's a big one.

No healthcare law is ever going to be passed in perfect form. The idea is pure fantasy. This will always be an iterative legislative process, like every other piece of complex law we have. But the simple reality is that, if one political party doesn't want to patch the failures in order to improve the law, it will never be fixed.

CharminTide said:

We do need a larger mandate penalty. The current anemic penalty destroys the risk pool and is a huge contributor to the rising premiums we now see. That's not all the ACA needs, but it's a big one.

No healthcare law is ever going to be passed in perfect form. The idea is pure fantasy. This will always be an iterative legislative process, like every other piece of complex law we have. But the simple reality is that, if one political party doesn't want to patch the failures in order to improve the law, it will never be fixed.

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This was not a fix, though. This was a bunch of arrogant buffoons making a broken system 20 times worse. This law has screwed over my financial well being, harmed my family and the goals that we had making them damn near impossible any time in the foreseeable future, and on top of it all made the quality of my healthcare experience worse!

TideEngineer08 said:

This was not a fix, though. This was a bunch of arrogant buffoons making a broken system 20 times worse. This law has screwed over my financial well being, harmed my family and the goals that we had making them damn near impossible any time in the foreseeable future, and on top of it all made the quality of my healthcare experience worse!

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That's very disingenuous. Obamacare has helped millions who were without healthcare before. They were being screwed by the private insurers in a broken system. And say what you want about the failures of the ACA, but it has profoundly helped people below the 200% poverty line afford healthcare.

The compromises to get the law passed, however, have disproportionally hit the middle class, and especially the middle class in rural parts of America, where insurers have pulled out of the marketplaces and competition has stymied. Those are where huge rate increases are being seen. Not in big urban centers where many insurers are actively competing.

The GOP has spent years waging this ideological war against President Obama that has manifested as an active refusal to improve a law that is disproportionally hurting America's middle class. They could have accepted that this law was on the books, upheld by the SCOTUS, and that it has done tremendous good for many people (and it has). They could have then addressed its shortcomings, which it sounds like you (and many others) have experienced. Instead, the GOP has focused entirely on this useless battle to repeal the ACA instead of helping to make it better. It's political theater at its worst, and they are choosing to let Americans suffer instead of doing their job and fixing the obvious gaps in the law.

Love the intellectual dishonesty of people like Gruber. He claims costs have gone down thanks to the 85% who get subsidies. That's not lowering costs; that's shifting costs (onto the backs of taxpayers and future generations).

The left's solution to a government screw-up is more government. More subsides (theft). More penalties (coercion).

Gruber is right about one thing: Obamacare won't collapse. Government entitlement programs are forever.

Bodhisattva said:

Love the intellectual dishonesty of people like Gruber. He claims costs have gone down thanks to the 85% who get subsidies. That's not lowering costs; that's shifting costs (onto the backs of taxpayers and future generations).

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True. But the same thing was happening before the ACA.

CharminTide said:

True. But the same thing was happening before the ACA.

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Agreed. All that has been done is come up with a different Rube Goldberg machine for health care.

Bodhisattva said:

Agreed. All that has been done is come up with a different Rube Goldberg machine for health care.

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I think the promise was that shouldering the costs of preventative care for indignant populations would be cheaper than shouldering the cost of their emergent care. Which is probably true, but the system isn't functioning exactly as intended right now, which is highlighting other problems.

CharminTide said:

I think the promise was that shouldering the costs of preventative care for indignant populations would be cheaper than shouldering the cost of their emergent care. Which is probably true, but the system isn't functioning exactly as intended right now, which is highlighting other problems.

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There's a lot that's wrong with health care and general perception.

Way too many people expect health care to be cheap, which doesn't make any sense. Doctors spend a decade or more in school. Medications take years of research. Machines take years to design and build. None of that is cheap. And in cases where the medicine/surgery/etc. save's one life, shouldn't the cost be commensurate with the benefit? Life is valuable I would think.

Most of the problems people have are of their own making. Poor diet, smoking, drinking, etc. causes most of our health issues. Human nature being what it is, fixing one's health problems (or at least kicking the consequences down the road) with a cheap pill allows people to persist with their poor choices. So people are living longer, sicker lives. And costs sky rocket. And they get to push that cost onto taxpayers and future generations. A harsher, but much more effective arrangement would be that following pay-your-own-bills standard: Get your crap together or one of two things will happen. One, you will die soon. Two, you will spend a lot of your own money living a long, sick life. The incentive is to get healthy. If not, then you pay (literally and figuratively) the consequences.

Bazza said:

Good Lord.....

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This guy is real creep and anybody who swallows his tripe has a screw loose.Conniving and diabolical scheming.

Bodhisattva said:

Agreed. All that has been done is come up with a different Rube Goldberg machine for health care.

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OT, but speaking of Rube Goldberg machines:


These are cool, unless you analogize them to a government office/agency/program/etc. trying to buy a printer or some software maintenance. And sadly, the analogy is not strained.

CharminTide said:

That's very disingenuous. Obamacare has helped millions who were without healthcare before. They were being screwed by the private insurers in a broken system. And say what you want about the failures of the ACA, but it has profoundly helped people below the 200% poverty line afford healthcare.

The compromises to get the law passed, however, have disproportionally hit the middle class, and especially the middle class in rural parts of America, where insurers have pulled out of the marketplaces and competition has stymied. Those are where huge rate increases are being seen. Not in big urban centers where many insurers are actively competing.

The GOP has spent years waging this ideological war against President Obama that has manifested as an active refusal to improve a law that is disproportionally hurting America's middle class. They could have accepted that this law was on the books, upheld by the SCOTUS, and that it has done tremendous good for many people (and it has). They could have then addressed its shortcomings, which it sounds like you (and many others) have experienced. Instead, the GOP has focused entirely on this useless battle to repeal the ACA instead of helping to make it better. It's political theater at its worst, and they are choosing to let Americans suffer instead of doing their job and fixing the obvious gaps in the law.

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Ok, I'm not trying to be disingenuous. We had goals as a family that, due to massive premium increases just announced for next year, are effectively ruined.

Please help me understand the first sentence of your last paragraph, really the entire paragraph. The GOP was against the ACA from the beginning in large part because of the disproportionate effect it was going to have on the middle class. I guess you are saying, since they lost that battle in the courts, even though they won it intellectually, they should have just worked with the arrogant moron that thumbed his nose at them during the whole process? For the good of the American people, right?

Look, again, I'm not trying to be disingenuous. But intelligent, conservative people were against this law from the beginning, and all of their claims of it's failings have come true. Again and again. To me, this just sounds like a child that insists on speeding in the car his parents just bought him, even after repeated warnings not to speed, and then being upset that the dad says he is not going to have it fixed after the kid wrecks it.

I know it has helped millions, but it has hurt many millions more. I don't know at what costs it must come that we make sure every single person has healthcare. I'm admitting my ignorance here.

I will end by saying this. I would like to see this mess get fixed. I don't care if a Republican does it, or if a Democrat does it. I would like to see both sides come together and fix the damn thing so that it doesn't financially ruin this country. Because if you think the economy is sluggish now, wait until next year when these premium increases hit.

CharminTide said:

That's very disingenuous. Obamacare has helped millions who were without healthcare before. They were being screwed by the private insurers in a broken system. And say what you want about the failures of the ACA, but it has profoundly helped people below the 200% poverty line afford healthcare.

The compromises to get the law passed, however, have disproportionally hit the middle class, and especially the middle class in rural parts of America, where insurers have pulled out of the marketplaces and competition has stymied. Those are where huge rate increases are being seen. Not in big urban centers where many insurers are actively competing.

The GOP has spent years waging this ideological war against President Obama that has manifested as an active refusal to improve a law that is disproportionally hurting America's middle class. They could have accepted that this law was on the books, upheld by the SCOTUS, and that it has done tremendous good for many people (and it has). They could have then addressed its shortcomings, which it sounds like you (and many others) have experienced. Instead, the GOP has focused entirely on this useless battle to repeal the ACA instead of helping to make it better. It's political theater at its worst, and they are choosing to let Americans suffer instead of doing their job and fixing the obvious gaps in the law.

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OK, first, the man tells you HIS story and HE is being disingenuous? Not you for completely dismissing his concerns out of hand? Um...OK...

There was NO compromise to get this bill passed into law. It was rammed through with any and all objections summarily disregarded. The Democrats got the bill THEY wanted. Saying otherwise is disingenuous.

I didn't realize that the role of the opposition was to roll over and play dead. Get real. Deal with the issues you and those you support created when you dismissed real concerns of real people.

Are the Republicans engaged in political theater? Yes. And those still voting for them likely don't see it.

There were ways to increase coverage for the working poor without limiting choices for those who liked their plan and wanted to keep it but despite the President's outright lies weren't able to do so. There were ways to not so greatly effect premiums for most people and still increase coverage. But time was of the essence. We had to pass it to find out what was in it.

I want to help people who need help to help themselves whenever possible. I don't come from a place of not caring. I have been unfortunately uninsured and in need of medical care. That's not the issue though. The issue is a bad law that was presented with bad lies that has been in many ways an abject failure for not being what it was sold to be. You need to be able to admit that.

Been without insurance for years. Would like to have insurance. Family insurance is too costly through my wife's plan. Can't afford monthly premiums currently because the budget is stretched as thin as it can go already (at least until after next year). Meanwhile still getting hit with tax penalty every year that only prolongs how long it will be before I can get insurance or when the penalty gets too high I'm forced to try and pay for insurance that I can't fit in the monthly budget that is still trying to recover from a long stint of being unemployed and underemployed after the housing market crash.

The whole thing has been super affordable for me.

I'm gonna be blunt and it may offend some but, frankly I don't care about the poor folks this law has helped. All I care about is providing for my family and the $300 a month this law has stolen from my paychecks. I want my cheap plan back, that also had better coverage. I used to not have to pay anything out of pocket besides co-pay's, now the deductibles are so high we don't even want to go to the doctor. This law sucks, I hate it and I hate the man that pushed it through. I'm sick and tired of hearing about the "good" it has done. I don't care, it has been nothing but bad for me and my family and no one will ever change my mind about this stupid law.

MattinBama said:

Been without insurance for years. Would like to have insurance. Family insurance is too costly through my wife's plan. Can't afford monthly premiums currently because the budget is stretched as thin as it can go already (at least until after next year). Meanwhile still getting hit with tax penalty every year that only prolongs how long it will be before I can get insurance or when the penalty gets too high I'm forced to try and pay for insurance that I can't fit in the monthly budget that is still trying to recover from a long stint of being unemployed and underemployed after the housing market crash.

The whole thing has been super affordable for me.

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You are so disingenuous.