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Question: Which Modern Alabama NC Defense is the Best??

tusks_n_raider

tusks_n_raider

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There's a lot of talk about how this years team has the potential to be the Best NC team ever and also maybe the Best Defense on an Alabama NC team. I thought it would be fun to look at the stats and see how the 'Modern' NC Alabama defenses stack up against each other. Here they are in Chronological order.

1992 - Scoring (9.02 ppg)1st, Total (194.2 ypg)1st, Rushing (55.0 ypg)1st, Passing (139.2 ypg)1st, 22 INT's, 10 Fumbles

2009 - Scoring (11.7 ppg)2nd, Total (244.1 ypg)2nd, Rushing (78.1 ypg)2nd, Passing (166.0 ypg)10th 24 INT's, 7 Fumbles

2011 - Scoring (8.20 ppg)1st, Total (183.6 ypg)1st, Rushing (72.2 ypg)1st, Passing (111.5 ypg)1st, 13 INT's, 7 Fumbles

2012 - Scoring (10.9 ppg)1st, Total (250.0 ypg)1st, Rushing (76.4 ypg)1st, Passing (173.6 ypg)7th, 18 INT's, 11 Fumbles

2015 - Scoring (15.1 ppg)3rd, Total (276.3 ypg)3rd, Rushing (75.7 ypg)1st, Passing (200.5 ypg)30th, 19 INT's, 8 Fumbles

2016* Scoring (11.4 ppg) 1st, Total (247.2 ypg)1st, Rushing (69.1 ypg)1st, Passing (178.1 ypg) 11th, 11 INT's, 10 Fumbles

*So far through 12 games

I still say both the '92 and '11 Defenses are the best by a MILE. They are the only two to clean sweep the four major defensive categories and post sub 10.0 ppg averages. 2011 is probably better than even 1992 because of the Offenses being more prolific now.

The one thing that really pops out is that while the rushing defense continues to be stellar the pass defense has faltered since 2011. Especially last year's 2015 squad......30th with UGA, A&M, Missouri, Florida, and even Kentucky having better pass defenses just in the SEC. This years effort is almost Top 10 though with only Fla having a better pass defense in the SEC.

If this year's stats hold true until the end I would rank the defenses like this:

1) 2011
2) 1992
3) 2012
4) 2016 (might would swap w/ 2012 at 3rd based on the NOT's)
5) 2009
6) 2015

What say you? Which Defense do you think is best? How would you rank them?
 
B1GTide

B1GTide

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1 - 2016 - offenses have really changed in the last 5 years.
2 - 2011
3 - 1992
4 - 2012
5 - 2015
6 - 2009 - again, offenses are so much more difficult to defend today than they were then
 
tusks_n_raider

tusks_n_raider

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B1GTide said:
1 - 2016 - offenses have really changed in the last 5 years.
2 - 2011
3 - 1992
4 - 2012
5 - 2015
6 - 2009 - again, offenses are so much more difficult to defend today than they were then
Click to expand...

I agree that teams are more difficult to defend now. But I still bump 2016 and 2015 down some because their rankings in the 4 main categories aren't 1st place clean sweeps like 2011 and 1992. There are 10 other defenses this year better against passing than Alabama. Last year 29 other teams were better defending the pass plus they were 3rd in Total D while 2009 was at least 2nd.

Even IF the yards and points are higher across the board now than in the past I'm still comparing 'Bama against it's contemporaries in a given year. Jmho but it has to be a clean sweep like '92 and '11 to be in the discussion. But I understand your reasoning too.
 
TideMom2Boys

TideMom2Boys

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B1GTide said:
1 - 2016 - offenses have really changed in the last 5 years.
2 - 2011
3 - 1992
4 - 2012
5 - 2015
6 - 2009 - again, offenses are so much more difficult to defend today than they were then
Click to expand...

I just did a quick look at 2011. I am showing we only played 1 team that ended in the top 50 of total offense. So far this year, we have played about 7-8 teams within the top 50.
 
T

teamplayer

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tusks_n_raider said:
There's a lot of talk about how this years team has the potential to be the Best NC team ever and also maybe the Best Defense on an Alabama NC team. I thought it would be fun to look at the stats and see how the 'Modern' NC Alabama defenses stack up against each other. Here they are in Chronological order.

1992 - Scoring (9.02 ppg)1st, Total (194.2 ypg)1st, Rushing (55.0 ypg)1st, Passing (139.2 ypg)1st, 22 INT's, 10 Fumbles

2009 - Scoring (11.7 ppg)2nd, Total (244.1 ypg)2nd, Rushing (78.1 ypg)2nd, Passing (166.0 ypg)10th 24 INT's, 7 Fumbles

2011 - Scoring (8.20 ppg)1st, Total (183.6 ypg)1st, Rushing (72.2 ypg)1st, Passing (111.5 ypg)1st, 13 INT's, 7 Fumbles

2012 - Scoring (10.9 ppg)1st, Total (250.0 ypg)1st, Rushing (76.4 ypg)1st, Passing (173.6 ypg)7th, 18 INT's, 11 Fumbles

2015 - Scoring (15.1 ppg)3rd, Total (276.3 ypg)3rd, Rushing (75.7 ypg)1st, Passing (200.5 ypg)30th, 19 INT's, 8 Fumbles

2016* Scoring (11.4 ppg) 1st, Total (247.2 ypg)1st, Rushing (69.1 ypg)1st, Passing (178.1 ypg) 11th, 11 INT's, 10 Fumbles

*So far through 12 games

I still say both the '92 and '11 Defenses are the best by a MILE. They are the only two to clean sweep the four major defensive categories and post sub 10.0 ppg averages. 2011 is probably better than even 1992 because of the Offenses being more prolific now.

The one thing that really pops out is that while the rushing defense continues to be stellar the pass defense has faltered since 2011. Especially last year's 2015 squad......30th with UGA, A&M, Missouri, Florida, and even Kentucky having better pass defenses just in the SEC. This years effort is almost Top 10 though with only Fla having a better pass defense in the SEC.

If this year's stats hold true until the end I would rank the defenses like this:

1) 2011
2) 1992
3) 2012
4) 2016 (might would swap w/ 2012 at 3rd based on the NOT's)
5) 2009
6) 2015

What say you? Which Defense do you think is best? How would you rank them?
Click to expand...
You have to remember that stats don't always tell the whole story. Sometimes another team has a "better" pass defense because their run defense is so bad that teams don't have to pass against them. If I had to rank the defenses, I would give 2011 the edge as best, followed by 92.
 
crimsonaudio

crimsonaudio

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Assuming this team finishes the way they've played through 12 games, 2016 is the best we've ever had. Want proof? Try this though exercise - drop the 2016 defense in to any season the other defenses excelled in and ask yourself if you think they'd be better or worse...

Ditto for the other defenses - would 2011 be as good against modern offenses? Nope, not in my opinion.

What makes the 2016 D special is that it's equally adept at stopping the old offensive styles the were prevalent until the last few years and still great at stopping the modern offenses that stress the defense far more than the older offenses did.
 
TideMan09

TideMan09

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crimsonaudio said:
Assuming this team finishes the way they've played through 12 games, 2016 is the best we've ever had. Want proof? Try this though exercise - drop the 2016 defense in to any season the other defenses excelled in and ask yourself if you think they'd be better or worse...

Ditto for the other defenses - would 2011 be as good against modern offenses? Nope, not in my opinion.

What makes the 2016 D special is that it's equally adept at stopping the old offensive styles the were prevalent until the last few years and still great at stopping the modern offenses that stress the defense far more than the older offenses did.
Click to expand...
Exactly..This years D has more speed than any D I can remember to stop these HUNH spread offenses & still has the ability to flex its muscle shutting down teams that are more of an old fashion power rushing offense..

I also think this years D is the best D we've ever had cause of the sheer amount of overall speed it has combined with pure power at the LOS..Coach Saban has tinkered each season with our D adjusting it to shut down these spread offenses & that's exactly what this D has done all season long..
 
theballguy

theballguy

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Statistically speaking, yeah 1992 and 2011 are great. But, this year's defense can stop anything. You can't triple-option them (outside), you can't go over the middle, you can't throw out a running QB and expect him to do well. If any QB could give us trouble, it would be Deshaun Watson (running QB but also a GREAT passer) but he's ran a lot less this season. That being said, I still don't think Watson could give us as much grief as he did last year. The eye test for me says this is the best Bama D I have seen since '78 (year I first started watching and following).
 
L

LA4Bama

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crimsonaudio said:
Assuming this team finishes the way they've played through 12 games, 2016 is the best we've ever had. Want proof? Try this though exercise - drop the 2016 defense in to any season the other defenses excelled in and ask yourself if you think they'd be better or worse...

Ditto for the other defenses - would 2011 be as good against modern offenses? Nope, not in my opinion.

What makes the 2016 D special is that it's equally adept at stopping the old offensive styles the were prevalent until the last few years and still great at stopping the modern offenses that stress the defense far more than the older offenses did.
Click to expand...
That's interesting speculation. Wouldn't call it proof, especially since that isn't a testable exercise at all. I love the 2016 defense but there is a certain mythology around this team that could use some analysis.

I prefer the analysis by how much better was each against their own peers. For example, 2011 and 2016, (note the uneven number of games for absolute figures):
(Edit: bummer, I had it all laid out but the spacing didn't work when I posted. Oh well, sorry, don't have time to redo it. You can see the data here and for 2016 here

2011 top ten defenses:

Name G Rush Yards Pass Yards Plays Total Yards Yards/Play Yards/G
1 Alabama 13 938 1449 720 2387 3.32 183.6
2 LSU 14 1261 2400 897 3661 4.08 261.5
3 South Carolina 13 1768 1712 835 3480 4.17 267.7
4 Florida State 13 1075 2500 859 3575 4.16 275.0
5 Georgia 14 1417 2464 870 3881 4.46 277.2
6 Michigan State 14 1407 2477 903 3884 4.30 277.4
7 Illinois 13 1610 2110 842 3720 4.42 286.2
8 Florida 13 1725 2169 848 3894 4.59 299.5
9 UCF 12 1306 2334 732 3640 4.97 303.3
10 Virginia Tech 14 1457 2808 865 4265 4.93 304.6


2016 (so far) top ten defenses:
Name G Rush Yards Pass Yards Plays Total Yards Yards/Play Yards/G1 Alabama 12 824 2137 748 2961 3.96 246.8
2 Michigan 12 1401 1631 747 3032 4.06 252.7
3 Temple 12 1532 1749 721 3281 4.55 273.4
4 Ohio State 12 1405 1974 797 3379 4.24 281.6
5 Army 11 1368 1810 641 3178 4.96 288.9
6 Florida 11 1470 1738 693 3208 4.63 291.6
7 Wisconsin 12 1209 2295 738 3504 4.75 292.0
8 Clemson 12 1533 2162 815 3695 4.53 307.9
9 Boston Co. 12 1283 2444 734 3727 5.08 310.6
10 Louisville 12 1320 2475 824 3795 4.61 316.3

Make your own analysis from this little chart, but I include it here so we don't forget how much better 2011 was than everyone else in their year. The combination of rush and pass defense we had in 2011 was transcendent.

Yes, offenses have evolved; yes, take into account strength of schedule and other statistical factors. But if 2016 were the run away GOAT you'd expect to see a larger gap between it and most of its current top 10 peers, as we see with 2011. The only category where the gap exists is rushing yards allowed. (The gap is still huge, but note that 2016 has 136 more yards in sacks than all of 2011 to help the gap grow). It's fair to say 2016 is great, but it just depends on how you measure greatness.
 
Last edited:
crimsonaudio

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LA4Bama said:
Yes, offenses have evolved; yes, take into account strength of schedule and other statistical factors. But if 2016 were the run away GOAT you'd expect to see a larger gap between it and most of its current top 10 peers, as we see with 2011. The only category where the gap exists is rushing yards allowed. (The gap is still huge, but note that 2016 has 136 more yards in sacks than all of 2011 to help the gap grow). It's fair to say 2016 is great, but it just depends on how you measure greatness.
Click to expand...
You may well be correct, but I'm fairly certain the modern offenses we face today would run all around the slower DL we had in 2011. No way to prove it either way, but it sure is fun to consider we have three 'modern' defenses that can be legitimately argued as the GOAT...

RTR
 
BamaBoySince89

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crimsonaudio said:
You may well be correct, but I'm fairly certain the modern offenses we face today would run all around the slower DL we had in 2011. No way to prove it either way, but it sure is fun to consider we have three 'modern' defenses that can be legitimately argued as the GOAT...

RTR
Click to expand...
And 92...

Let's just say for this era 2012-present this D is the best compaired to 2008-2011 where the 11' D was dominant and 1991-1994 where the 92 D falls in.

It's really hard to tell given the different era's but we can agree that 92, 11, and 16 defenses have something unique that stands out from each other. I will say this years D(and entire team) may be the most athletic and talented than any other we've seen.

Again, this could be debated for years to come but it's sure great to be able to debate this and not be stuck talking about how great it was in the glory days like some programs.

"Roll Tide"
 
L

LCN

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IMO , 1992 , for several reasons , ahead of 2011 , is still a cut above . That said and without compiling an endless list of data , in a nutshell ...

1 - People seem to easily forget something numbers alone can never show which is how much pressure that unit played under each and every week because the offense was , at best , about a C- unit . In 2011 , the offense was clearly an A unit .

2 - With a poor offense and prior to multiple clock changes , one should always consider that each opponent had right at 3 more possessions and chances to adjust per game against the 1992 unit . Translation ? A defense needs to be at least 25 yards a game better than the 1992 defense in order to be considered equal to the '92 unit .

3 - With the addition of sacks , TFL and interceptions per play , 1992 separates itself from the 2011 defense . Plus , other than the Sugar Bowl game against Miami , the '92 defense was based much more on 3rd level deception prior to the snap and rarely blitzed yet piled up a ton of negative plays with almost exclusively a 3-man rush .

4 - While to game has sped up and changed quite a bit , in 2011 the differences really were based far more on perception than any genuine semblance of reality as SEC teams , on average , were only attempting 3 more passes per game than was the case in 1992 .

As for 2016 , I have been extremely impressed with Coach Pruitt and feel he has clearly been an upgrade over Kirby Smart , but the full picture is still incomplete . A dominant performance in a potential title game against Clemson could change my mind , but I somewhat doubt it . I'm thinking it will remain a joy to analyze and debate for many years to come :smile:

As Coach Stallings would say - JOMHO :BigA:
 
Last edited:
RTR91

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LA4Bama said:
That's interesting speculation. Wouldn't call it proof, especially since that isn't a testable exercise at all. I love the 2016 defense but there is a certain mythology around this team that could use some analysis.

I prefer the analysis by how much better was each against their own peers. For example, 2011 and 2016, (note the uneven number of games for absolute figures):
(Edit: bummer, I had it all laid out but the spacing didn't work when I posted. Oh well, sorry, don't have time to redo it. You can see the data here and for 2016 here

2011 top ten defenses:

Name G Rush Yards Pass Yards Plays Total Yards Yards/Play Yards/G
1 Alabama 13 938 1449 720 2387 3.32 183.6
2 LSU 14 1261 2400 897 3661 4.08 261.5
3 South Carolina 13 1768 1712 835 3480 4.17 267.7
4 Florida State 13 1075 2500 859 3575 4.16 275.0
5 Georgia 14 1417 2464 870 3881 4.46 277.2
6 Michigan State 14 1407 2477 903 3884 4.30 277.4
7 Illinois 13 1610 2110 842 3720 4.42 286.2
8 Florida 13 1725 2169 848 3894 4.59 299.5
9 UCF 12 1306 2334 732 3640 4.97 303.3
10 Virginia Tech 14 1457 2808 865 4265 4.93 304.6


2016 (so far) top ten defenses:
Name G Rush Yards Pass Yards Plays Total Yards Yards/Play Yards/G1 Alabama 12 824 2137 748 2961 3.96 246.8
2 Michigan 12 1401 1631 747 3032 4.06 252.7
3 Temple 12 1532 1749 721 3281 4.55 273.4
4 Ohio State 12 1405 1974 797 3379 4.24 281.6
5 Army 11 1368 1810 641 3178 4.96 288.9
6 Florida 11 1470 1738 693 3208 4.63 291.6
7 Wisconsin 12 1209 2295 738 3504 4.75 292.0
8 Clemson 12 1533 2162 815 3695 4.53 307.9
9 Boston Co. 12 1283 2444 734 3727 5.08 310.6
10 Louisville 12 1320 2475 824 3795 4.61 316.3

Make your own analysis from this little chart, but I include it here so we don't forget how much better 2011 was than everyone else in their year. The combination of rush and pass defense we had in 2011 was transcendent.

Yes, offenses have evolved; yes, take into account strength of schedule and other statistical factors. But if 2016 were the run away GOAT you'd expect to see a larger gap between it and most of its current top 10 peers, as we see with 2011. The only category where the gap exists is rushing yards allowed. (The gap is still huge, but note that 2016 has 136 more yards in sacks than all of 2011 to help the gap grow). It's fair to say 2016 is great, but it just depends on how you measure greatness.
Click to expand...
I look at things a different way. Alabama's 2016 defense beats any previous Saban defense (I didn't count 2007, but we know it wasn't better) in holding opponents to 190.46 yards below their average. Comparatively, the 2011 defense held its opponents to 162.46 yards per game. Also, the 2016 defense thus far holds opponents 2.46 yards per play below their average while the 2011 defense held its opponents to 1.9 yards per play below their average.

 
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