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Crimson04

New Member
Oct 18, 2004
13
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0
K1 punts the ball to R1. While the ball is in the air R1 gives a valid fair catch. The ball then hits the ground and rolls past R1. R1 then chases after it and gives another fair catch signal, but this time it would qualify as an invalid fair catch signal. What do you got? Had this situation come up in a game last night.

P.S- Not trying to move in on tidehawks turf, but thought it would be a good idea to see what other more experienced officials thought. :biggrin2:
 
J

Jref

1st Team
Oct 3, 2001
551
0
0
Tuscaloosa, AL
Crimson04 said:
K1 punts the ball to R1. While the ball is in the air R1 gives a valid fair catch. The ball then hits the ground and rolls past R1. R1 then chases after it and gives another fair catch signal, but this time it would qualify as an invalid fair catch signal. What do you got? Had this situation come up in a game last night.
Click to expand...
Off the top of my head ...

Assuming K accepts, it would be penalized as a post-scrimmage kick foul, 5 yards from the spot where the kick ends (or the spot of the foul if behind the end of the kick). R's ball, 1st-&-10.

A corollary to this is: Once any R player has given a FC signal, whether vaild or invalid, the ball becomes dead as soon as any R player gains possession.

So, if R1 had picked up the ball instead of giving another FC signal, you would have blown the play dead.
 
B

bamajake

1st Team
Sep 27, 2001
691
1
37
Tuscaloosa, Alabama, USA
Quite frankly, I would view the second, invalid, signal as a stray arm movement unless it was obvious that the player intended to give some sort of signal. The purpose of the invalid fair catch rule is to prevent the receiver from using some sort of signal to gain an unfair advantage. For that reason, I would have to be aboslutely certain that he had made a signal before I threw my flag.

BTW, I don't think anyone will see this as moving in on Tidehawk's turf, least of all Tidehawk himself. Not only are questions like this interesting to talk about, they help folks understand the rules better. That is good for everyone.
 
B

bamajake

1st Team
Sep 27, 2001
691
1
37
Tuscaloosa, Alabama, USA
Tell that to the rules committee. I am not trying to be a smart--- but as officials we have to deal with many rules that don't make sense. Then we have to try to explain them to coaches who do not want to hear our explanation. In this case, if a fair catch signal was given after the ball hit the ground, it is an invalid fair catch signal and is a foul. We have no choice but to thorw the flag and penalize the foul. That is why I said that unless it was obviously an attempt at a signal, I would consider it a stray arm movement and not a signal.
 
tidehawk

tidehawk

HS Moderator
Staff member
Feb 9, 2001
1,925
94
217
59
Wetumpka, AL
Crimson, don't worry about moving in on my "turf." I have been so busy today that I have not had a chance to post YMTC. Any time anyone wants to step up with a situation I welcome it.

BTW, I agree w/ Jref's assessment of the play.
 
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