You Make the Call - 11/3

The team with only 6 players (white) MUST forfeit the game because they can't put at least 7 men on the line of scrimmage. Just a guess!

tidehawk said:

Here is the season finale:

At 6:30 left in the 4th quarter, Team red and Team White get into a bench-clearing brawl. After the dust settles and all ejections and penalties are taken care of, Red has only 9 players left and White has 6 players left. WHat should be done?

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both teams forfeit the game

forfeit

I think you can play with less than 11 but you do have to have 7 on the LOS>... so if you are on defense, you should be okay.. but once you get the ball, every play would be a penality so I would assume you would forfeit...

My guess :

The game is halted at that point and the team leading on the scoreboard would be declared the winner.

Ditto because there has to be at least 8 players on a team (7 on the LOS and 1 QB).
The game is halted and the team with the most points is declared the winner.

Nice job Alanbama. A team must have 11 players to begin a game but can play with fewer than 11 if players are lost to injury, illness or ejection. However, the team on offense must have at least seven players on the line. In this case, White will have to forfeit when they go on offense. White has only two chances in the situation here. If Red was on offense, White can hope that they can run the clock out without having to go on offense or they can try to get more eligible players to the game site before they go on offense. Unless new players arrive before White goes on offense, the game is declared a forfeit. If White was ahead or if the game was tied, the official score is 1-0 Red. If Red was ahead, the score stands.

TideHawk, thanks for posting the YMTC situations. I have enjoyed reading them. To the rest of you who have posted answers, thanks to you also. While a lot of the rules are common sense, some are not.

If anyone sees any situations during the playoffs that you don't understand, or if you just have questions about rules, please post them so we can discuss them.

bamajake said:

A team must have 11 players to begin a game but can play with fewer than 11 if players are lost to injury, illness or ejection. However, the team on offense must have at least seven players on the line. In this case, White will have to forfeit when they go on offense. White has only two chances in the situation here. If Red was on offense, White can hope that they can run the clock out without having to go on offense or they can try to get more eligible players to the game site before they go on offense. Unless new players arrive before White goes on offense, the game is declared a forfeit. If White was ahead or if the game was tied, the official score is 1-0 Red. If Red was ahead, the score stands.

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*OR* If Red is on offense, White can start trying to injure players on the Red team. If they get Red below seven while they still have the ball, Red is forced to forfeit. (Hey, it's classless, I know, but these are two thug teams that have already proven they'd rather settle it with fists than between the lines...)

Question for bamajake - I'm pretty sure that baseball rules allow for a team to play with less than nine if they started with nine and lost one or some to injury, but if they lose players because of ejection and get below the nine, then they must forfeit the game. Is this not the case for football?

Houndstooth said:

Question for bamajake - I'm pretty sure that baseball rules allow for a team to play with less than nine if they started with nine and lost one or some to injury, but if they lose players because of ejection and get below the nine, then they must forfeit the game. Is this not the case for football?

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In HS baseball, a team may continue to play with eight, and it doesn't matter how they got to only eight -- injury, illness, ejection, band practice, etc. In college & pro baseball, once a team gets below nine on defense, they must forfeit. In addition, if they are on offense and the empty slot comes up in the batting order, that team must then forfeit.

The rule for HS football is as Jake has stated: If you get below seven AND you have to go on offense, you must forfeit. (Note: There is no requirement that the offense has to have a QB, only that they must be able to put seven on the LOS.)

UAME said:

*OR* If Red is on offense, White can start trying to injure players on the Red team. If they get Red below seven while they still have the ball, Red is forced to forfeit. (Hey, it's classless, I know, but these are two thug teams that have already proven they'd rather settle it with fists than between the lines...)

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You are right about the two teams in this instance. I have no doubt that some teams may try to take enough players from Red out to force Red to forfeit. If I am the referee and a team trys this, I would eject the first person who intentionally attempted to injure an opposing player and I would inform the coach that if it happened again I would declare the game a forfeit. If it happened again, I would end the game and include all of the details in my report to the State and let them deal with it. I assure you, it would not be pleasant for the White coach or school.

Tidehawk, I have a confession. Jref and I work football and baseball together and we are constantly discussing rules and situations. That is why we seem to be on the same page. Our association does a pretty good job of rules discussions and encouraging everyone to study the Rules Book and Case Book. This certainly pays off when something unusual comes up in a game. I would love to swap war stories over a cold one sometime. If you find your way to T-town, give us a shout.

If both coaches agreed, could the game be suspended for a while, (field conditions, power failure,etc). Or could the White team stay in the huddle and get repeated Delay of Game penalties hoping to get someone from the stands dressed out and into the game?

Banditbob, you are thinking like a coach! If this situation were to happen, I am sure that the White coach would be trying to come up with some way to avoid a forfeit. That is why the officials must stay on top of the rules.

You pose some interesting questions. One of them might just work. First of all, the coaches cannot agree to suspend the game for any reason. Once the officials assume jurisdiction of the game (i.e., when they arrive on the field) they make the decision regarding field conditions. The officials can suspend the game if weather conditions become hazardous to life or limb of the participants. Normally, that means lightning. If there is a sudden thunderstorm, you can bet that the officials will clear the field and wait for it to pass. Wet or sloppy conditions normally won't be a reason for a suspension.

If the power goes out, that is another matter. Obviously you can't play in the dark. This doesn't mean that the power could simply be turned off. If that happens, the State would probably hammer the school for doing so. However, if it is a legitimate power failure, that might just give White enough time to get more eligible players to the game and dressed.

Simply taking repeated delay of game penalties won't work. There are two provisions in the rules that will prevent this. First, the game is forfeited if the team fails to play within two minutes after being ordered to do so by the referee. Second, there is a rule that states that no team shall repeatedly commit any foul that halves the distance to the goal line. This means that if White did simply stay in the huddle and take delay penalties, when the ball gets inside of the ten they could not continue to take the penalties. the penalty for doing so is a forfeit. Also, by continuing to take delay penalties, White could be considered to be making a travesty of the game and could be forced to forfeit.

Another thing to remember is this -- after a bench clearing brawl the referee in all likelihood will not have a whole lot of patience with the remaining players and coaches. If a coach is going to try some scheme to prevent the forfeit, it better be good. The referee will have to make a written report to the State because of the brawl anyway, so he will include anything that the coaches do later to try to get around the rules in his report. In Alabama, the AHSAA would not be pleased with further shenanigans.

Exactly Tidehawk. The only time that I have seen someone pulled from the stands was an occasion where two kids had quit during the week prior to the game and another player had been suspended by the coach for disciplinary reasons and the three were brought in by the coach at halftime. All three were eligible according to the AHSAA so they could be brought in. I doubt that the coach would have used any of those kids, but he had one player ejected in the first half for punching an opposing player and he had two or three injured. This was a 1-A game so he didn't have many other players to choose from. It didn't matter much as that team lost by about 50.

Wow> Great knowledge of the rules of the game. Do the Coaches have no say in suspending the game? What if the RED coach pulled one of this players to the sideline for "not blocking well"?

As a referee I would certainly take the coaches' opinions into consideration. However, the final decision rests with the referee.

The Red coach can pull a player to the sideline any time that he wants, so long as he has 7 on the line while on offense.