The onside Kick (no-call)???

[stuck-n-TN]

Forgive me if I missed this already posted here somewhere. I live in Nashville so you can imagine what I am listening to on the (only) sports station here where a certain "host" is very biased. Anyway, everyone keeps talking about MC taking his helmet off and what should of/would have happened with that.

My question is on the onside kick play. Correct me if I am wrong but shouldn't TN have been called for blocking Julio before the ball traveled 10 yards? He was hit on about the 38.5 and the ball should have passed the 40 before anyone can be touched I thought. Again, correct me if I am wrong in thinking this. Regardless we are still 8-0. I am just tired of hearing about all of this on the radio up here! RTR

 

[crimsonaudio]

EDIT: see Post #9 below

 

[RamJamHam]

Yes, it was us who stood around with our thumbs up our collective rears and let JJ get tattooed. Good play by them.

 

[twofbyc]

The ball has to travel 10 yds before the kicking team can touch it legally (unless a receiving team member touches it first), but I don't think there is a rule saying you have to go 10 yds before you hit somebody.
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[stuck-n-TN]

good deal...thanks for the answers everyone...

 

[BAMA504]

My only wonder is why we did not have people knocking the heck out of #41 and anyone else trying to get the ball because once it hits the ground they can hit us but can't we hit them as well???????

 

[BamaBeta]

It was a very well executed on-sides kick.

It was a perfectly executed on-sides kick. And Twoofbyc, you are absolutely correct.

 

[southface]

Gentlemen, can someone point to this once it hits the ground rule? I have seen nothing about that in the rules. I think it must go ten yards before the kicking team can touch the ball or block the receiving team.

 

[crimsonaudio]

Gentlemen, can someone point to this once it hits the ground rule? I have seen nothing about that in the rules. I think it must go ten yards before the kicking team can touch the ball or block the receiving team.

I just looked it up and it appears I was mistaken.

Rule 6, Section 1, Article 2:
g. No Team A player may block an opponent until Team A is eligible to touch a
free-kicked ball [S19].

Since JJ moved inside the neutral zone, until he touched the ball or the ball crossed the 10 yard mark, he was untouchable. That was a foul, unless someone can point otherwise.

 

[southface]

Yes, I think crimsonaudio is correct. Once again the SEC refs missed a call. It should have been a penalty on UT and Bama's ball.

 

[USCBAMA]

Gentlemen, can someone point to this once it hits the ground rule? I have seen nothing about that in the rules. I think it must go ten yards before the kicking team can touch the ball or block the receiving team.

There isn't a once it hits the ground rule. You are looking at it backwards. Rule book doesn't need to address it unless it is against the rules (like the illegal touching of the ball is addressed). It's not against the rules to make contact with an opposing player on a kickoff anywhere in the field of play once the ball is kicked.

 

[crimsonaudio]

There isn't a once it hits the ground rule. You are looking at it backwards. Rule book doesn't need to address it unless it is against the rules (like the illegal touching of the ball is addressed). It's not against the rules to make contact with an opposing player on a kickoff anywhere in the field of play once the ball is kicked.

I dunno, see post #9 above - it appears it IS illegal for them to block anyone until they are eligible to recover the ball. That doesn't happen until it is touched by the receiving team or it travels 10 yards, neither of which happened before JJ was hit.

 

[twofbyc]

For the kicking team to recover one of two things things must happen:
1) The ball must go and remain at least 10 yards downfield from where it was kicked. There is no requirement that the ball hit the ground in NCAA rules. Or,
2) The ball must be touched by a member of the receiving team.

A couple of penalties or violations that could cause the kicking team to not keep possession are:
1) Illegal touching - Touching the ball by a kicking team member before they can legally posses it per the rules above.
2) Illegal blocking - Blocking a receiving team member before they can legally posses the ball per the rules above.

Source(s):

13 years officiating NCAA and HS football.

I just got this off the internet, and it seems to state that a receiving team member cannot be blocked until the ball travels 10 yards. I'm checking again...

 

[kayakerjess]

So you're saying Gary Danielson was wrong again?

 

[UAME]

I'm interested to know the ruling on this. Here is my thinking of where the ball hitting the ground would come into play: If the ball is kicked directly into the air (pooch style) then the receiving team could signal for a fair catch, which would, of course, prevent the receiver from getting creamed before the ball reaches him. This doesn't address the 10 yard portion, though.

 

[crimsonaudio]

I'll add this as well:

ARTICLE 3. a. No Team A player may touch a free-kicked ball until after:
1. It touches a Team B player (Exception: Rules 6-1-4 and 6-5-1-b);
2. It breaks the plane of and remains beyond Team B’s restraining line
(Exception: Rule 6-4-1) (A.R. 2-11-2-I); or
3. It touches any player, the ground, an official or anything beyond Team B’s
restraining line.
Thereafter, all players of Team A become eligible to touch, recover or catch the
kick.
b. Any other touching by Team A is illegal touching, a violation that, when
the ball becomes dead, gives the receiving team the privilege of taking
the ball at the spot of the violation.

 

[Special K]

This is basically a cut and paste of my response to this question on another board. I hope it helps:

It was indeed an illegal block and should have been called.

The rule is very clear if you read it carefully. No Team A (kicking team) player can block any Team B (receiving team) player until Team A (kicking team) is eligible to recover the ball.

There are very defined circumstances by which Team A (kicking team) can become eligible to recover the ball. These are the 2 we are concerned with below:

1. The ball travels and remains beyond the restraining line (10 yards) and strikes a Team B (rec. team) player, the ground, an official, or anything else beyond the restraining line. If the ball travels beyond the restraining line through the air, Team A (kicking team) is not eligible to recover the ball until one of the above happens and they must allow Team B (rec. team) an opportunity to field the kick. If the ball strikes the ground prior to the restraining line and then travels and remains beyond the restraining line, Team A (kicking team) would be eligible to recover the ball once it passed the restraining line and they could at that point hit whoever the hell they wanted to on Team B (rec. team).

2. The ball is touched by a Team B (rec. team) player in the neutral zone (prior to ball crossing the restraining line). Until the ball is touched by a Team B (rec. team) player, Team A is not eligible to recover the ball in the neutral zone no matter what.

So, to sum it up, Julio ran past the restraining line into the neutral zone (smart play by him, by the way) and was hit before touching the ball. By rule, this is an illegal block and should have resulted in a penalty on UT since at that point the ball had not touched any Bama players and had not crossed the restraining line. Now, once Julio touched it, even in the neutral zone, they could have knocked the snot out of him if they wanted and if Julio had then fumbled, UT could have recovered it legally.

Any questions?

P.S. - This is why receiving team players are specifically coached to go get the ball in the neutral zone if they can. They are not supposed to be able to be blocked legally and many kicking teams will screw up, as UT did, and hit the guy before he touches the ball. All this junk about UT's perfect execution is nonsense. They got away with one, plain and simple.

 

[carder24]

I knew something looked incredibly wrong on that play. Thanks for the explanations!

 

[twofbyc]

This is basically a cut and paste of my response to this question on another board. I hope it helps:

If the ball travels beyond the restraining line through the air, Team A (kicking team) is not eligible to recover the ball until one of the above happens and they must allow Team B (rec. team) an opportunity to field the kick.

I thought that only applied to a fair catch; I didn't know the kicking team couldn't catch the ball in the air after it goes ten yards, and I am sure at some point I have seen that actually happen.
Not saying that's not what the rule actually states because I haven't had time to dig it up, just didn't know it read that way.

 

[Special K]

If the ball travels beyond the restraining line through the air, Team A (kicking team) is not eligible to recover the ball until one of the above happens and they must allow Team B (rec. team) an opportunity to field the kick.

I thought that only applied to a fair catch; I didn't know the kicking team couldn't catch the ball in the air after it goes ten yards, and I am sure at some point I have seen that actually happen.
Not saying that's not what the rule actually states because I haven't had time to dig it up, just didn't know it read that way.

I think the confusion is because on-side kicks almost never get popped straight up into the air. They almost always hit the ground first somehow. Think of it this way. How is an on-side kick any different than a regular kick if it is kicked straight up into the air? Answer is that it's not any different. Whether it travels 10.1 yards or 70 yards, the kicking team cannot legally commit catch interference. Of course, once the receiving player attempts to catch the ball, the kicking team can knock the snot out of him if they want unless he calls for a fair catch in which case they can't touch him at all (at least not legally).