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Gun Control Thread -- (Pros and Cons) -- Aftermath of Connecticut Shooting

CrimsonJag said:
fwiw, there ARE those in leadership in this country who would be a-okay with a complete ban of citizens carrying or owning any firearms whatsoever in the US. Their reasoning might come from honest motives, but their beliefs would also disarm citizens and lead the lambs to slaughter.

Not trying to sound like an alarmist, but if you don't think there are people in power who would like things like the paragraph above to happen (even though they keep armed security at their side), you're extremely naive or not aware of the politics going on around you.
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a complete ban of firearms will never happen here. to pretend so is just hyperbolic rhetoric designed to play on people's emotions and make a butt load of money.
 
92tide said:
a complete ban of firearms will never happen here. to pretend so is just hyperbolic rhetoric designed to play on people's emotions and make a butt load of money.
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Didn't say it would ever happen. Said there are those in leadership who would be okay with it happening. Hence the reason there's a need for those to oppose such nonsense.
 
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92tide said:
a complete ban of firearms will never happen here. to pretend so is just hyperbolic rhetoric designed to play on people's emotions and make a butt load of money.
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That darn reading comprehension thing again.... :)


He didn't say that it would happen. He said there are people in power who would like for it to happen. Big difference.
 
uafan4life said:
That darn reading comprehension thing again.... :)


He didn't say that it would happen. He said there are people in power who would like for it to happen. Big difference.
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then why mention it in this thread at all.

as i pointed out earlier in this thread, there are people at all levels of power who would like all kinds of bat crap crazy stuff to happen that isn't ever going to happen. its occasionally fun to point and laugh at them, but using them as an example to try to make a point is pretty fruitless.
 
92tide said:
then why mention it in this thread at all.
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Uhhhh, because there really are those in legislative power who would like to see a total ban occur? And I don't mean fringe House guys.

You don't think for a minute that someone like Obama would ban the ownership of guns of any type would ever happen if he didn't have resistance? Apparently you've not been following the news.

Youre extremely naive if you don't think staying silent would, no doubt, at some point, remove our rights to bear arms.

The left wants law abiding, God fearing, citizens to be quiet on issues like this. Ain't ever gonna happen.
 
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"We can't accept events like this as routine. Are we really prepared to say that we're powerless in the face of such carnage?" Obama said. That the politics are too hard? Are we prepared to say that such violence visited on our children year, after year, after year is somehow the price of our freedom?"

"We will be told that the causes of such violence are complex, and that is true," he said. "No single law no set of laws can eliminate evil from the world or prevent every senseless act of violence in our society."

"But that can't be an excuse for inaction. Surely we can do better than this," he said.
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http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/obama-newtown-t-tolerate-anymore-022115820--politics.html
 
When the gun ban talk starts for real, I personally will not be inclined to listen to anyone that also doesn't put abortion on the table as well. If protecting innocent lives is the only motivation then the first step is to make abortion illegal and many, many more lives will be saved each year.
 
"We can't accept events like this as routine. Are we really prepared to say that we're powerless in the face of such carnage?" Obama said. That the politics are too hard? Are we prepared to say that such violence visited on our children year, after year, after year is somehow the price of our freedom?"
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Yes.
"We will be told that the causes of such violence are complex, and that is true," he said. "No single law no set of laws can eliminate evil from the world or prevent every senseless act of violence in our society."

"But that can't be an excuse for inaction. Surely we can do better than this," he said.
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Here come the bad ideas.
 
cbi1972 said:
"We can't accept events like this as routine. Are we really prepared to say that we're powerless in the face of such carnage?" Obama said. That the politics are too hard? Are we prepared to say that such violence visited on our children year, after year, after year is somehow the price of our freedom?"
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Yes.
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In 2008 there were 2,947 children killed through gun violence, and in 2009 there were 2,793.

To me it seems too cheap to dismissively say that those deaths are just a cost that we as a nation should be comfortable with paying so that we can continue to purchase firearms in a relatively easy fashion. But I wondered how easy it would be to dismiss that pain and loss if every time I went to purchase a firearm I had to explain to those parents who lost a child to gun violence why I was buying that firearm without a waiting period, or mental health check, or ensuring that I was storing it safely, or that I didn't have to have some basic measure of safety instruction. I understand that there is no one magic policy that will all of a sudden "fix" the problem of gun violence in the US. However to fall back on the argument of "but the 2nd amendment says I can, so back off" or "regulations won't matter to the criminals since they break the law already" seems a bit weak.

With all of the incidents as of late, isn't it at least worth it to see if something could help the issue, wherever it may lie. The answer may not be regulations on firearms, it may lay in changing the mental health policy, or modifying construction/safety requirements for buildings such as schools, or heck putting US marshals in every school much like they did commercial airplanes after 9/11. But to take any measures that could possibly improve the situation off the table before even starting to analyze the problem seems closed minded and short sighted.
 
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chanson78 said:
But to take any measures that could possibly improve the situation off the table before even starting to analyze the problem seems closed minded and short sighted.
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To discount the value of freedom in cost/benefit calculations is what is closed minded and short sighted, as is the impulse to "do something" even if it accomplishes nothing, and causes immeasurable harm.

Bamaro said:
We can and should sensibly regulate the sale and transfer of weapons without unnecessarily compromising our freedoms.
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"Sounds" reasonable but as soon as you get into specifics, I am sure it will sound awful.
 
The current talk by politicos about another assault weapon ban is pretty is pretty asinine IMO. What is that going to fix? Last time I checked most gun related deaths aren't caused by assault weapons.
 
Bamaro said:
We can and should sensibly regulate the sale and transfer of weapons without unnecessarily compromising our freedoms.
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The Connecticut nutjob (I refuse to use his name) stole the guns used in the killing from his mom who'd legally purchased them. Not sure how any regulation could stop that from happening.
 
Bamaro said:
We can and should sensibly regulate the sale and transfer of weapons without unnecessarily compromising our freedoms.
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OK, let's flesh this one out a bit.

First, what is sensible regulation? Specifically?

Second, is this only for new firearms sales are do we start a national firearm registrations system where every owner of all firearms must register them with the government? If it's retroactive (registration of all firearms), how do we force this when no one knows how many firearms even exist - legally or illegally - in the US?

Third, how does this registration stop these killings? Specifically?

Again, I'm not one to say 'no' to any new legislation, I just want to hear what is being proposed and how it's going to help. If we're even considering potentially infringing upon the rights of people (that's up for debate, but suffice to say that this is one huge gray area of a discussion), we need to KNOW ahead of time that any new legislation will actually help stop these mass murderers. Otherwise, it's just an emotional 'we have to do something!' knee-jerk reaction that is far more likely to infringe upon the citizen's rights than to actually curb this behavior.
 
CrimsonJag said:
The Connecticut nutjob (I refuse to use his name) stole the guns used in the killing from his mom who'd legally purchased them. Not sure how any regulation could stop that from happening.
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And he was denied the purchase of a firearm the week of the shootings - the system worked.

We can't expect legislation to protect us from the acts of the criminally insane, unless the legislation is to actively treat the insanity.
 
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