Defending the HUNH

Bama Czar

1st Team
Sep 1, 2010
389
39
52
Woodstock, GA
Personally, I think Bama's scheme, with so many checks, to try and make the perfect play call on D really hurts us against this type O. Coach is a much smarter football mind than I am, but perhaps a more simple , base type defensive scheme should be used against these type Os. Maybe we could "dumb it down" somewhat, and just out-athlete people...?

I really hate this no huddle, gotcha type O. Sissy football, IMO...
 

TidePride50

3rd Team
Jan 16, 2010
296
0
0
Personally, I think Bama's scheme, with so many checks, to try and make the perfect play call on D really hurts us against this type O. Coach is a much smarter football mind than I am, but perhaps a more simple , base type defensive scheme should be used against these type Os. Maybe we could "dumb it down" somewhat, and just out-athlete people...?

I really hate this no huddle, gotcha type O. Sissy football, IMO...
I do agree about the checks. HUNH makes that much harder.


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tidefan39817

All-American
Jan 17, 2006
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Bainbridge, Georgia
Personally, I think Bama's scheme, with so many checks, to try and make the perfect play call on D really hurts us against this type O. Coach is a much smarter football mind than I am, but perhaps a more simple , base type defensive scheme should be used against these type Os. Maybe we could "dumb it down" somewhat, and just out-athlete people...?

I really hate this no huddle, gotcha type O. Sissy football, IMO...
that is the key for stopping this. but, i would add that it takes a little tweeking for the DB's also. they have to be able to play a press man coverage and knock the WR's off the route. That is something that Bama did not have this year. i would also add that i would send my OC to places like Oregon and Baylor to study the offense then send Kirby to places like Okie State and Stanford to get a grip on stopping it. "If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles." Sun Tzu.

the other thing i have noticed with teams like Stanford, Okie State, and LSU is they play a 43 defense with a defensive line that can get pressure on the QB and disrupt the reads the QB has to make. the 34 that Bama runs is designed to stop the run by using the dlinemen to clog up the oline and let the LB's make the tackle. but what happens when a team goes 3, 4 or 5 wide and go all Air Raid on you? i still think, and again this is my opinion, the 260 lb OLB is a thing of the past right now. especially with the spread em and shred em types of offenses you see at places like Oregon, Baylor and to a point OU last night. Maybe do something like putting DePriest at DE last night would have helped and go with a nickel package that way a little more speed is on the dline and you don't have to rely on getting pressure with a blitz? I'm not sure, and i'm not a coach.

Now that being said, i'm just a fan. but i also love this game very much. i like the X's and O's and pretty much read as mush as i can when it comes to the discussion of the X's and O's. I am a huge fan of line up and smash the team across from you but even a purist can see that the times are changing and the SEC has changed with them. How many "spread" teams did you see in bowl games this year? how many teams running a no huddle/hurry up offense? the 34 match zone is great for teams that run a traditional pro style offense, but you have to be more base and vanilla and maybe "bend but don't break" on defense.
 

TexasRed

3rd Team
Nov 15, 2010
200
0
35
San Antonio, TX
Personally, I think Bama's scheme, with so many checks, to try and make the perfect play call on D really hurts us against this type O. Coach is a much smarter football mind than I am, but perhaps a more simple , base type defensive scheme should be used against these type Os. Maybe we could "dumb it down" somewhat, and just out-athlete people...?

I really hate this no huddle, gotcha type O. Sissy football, IMO...
I agree that these hurry up/spread offenses are a bit gimmicky, but if you look at the broader trend I think we're seeing an inevitable response to the superspecialization of football. As the rules have evolved to protect quarterbacks in passing offenses defenses have become increasingly specialized in personnel and packages. Teams have 1st down defensive linemen, 3rd down defensive linemen, etc. At some point someone was going to neutralize the advantage of running a specialized defense namely by (1) having a more mobile quarterback who can pass just enough to keep a defense from keying on him, and/or (2) running some type of hurry up so that defenses can't get set and can't substitute.

I know that this is a bit of a simplistic assessment, but I do think that there will simply be a correction by defenses to not be so specialized and to have more every down athletes on the field. I mean Gus Malzahn is basically just running the Delaware Wing-T out of the shotgun. How do you defend the Wing-T?
 
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Bamabuzzard

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I agree that these hurry up/spread offenses are a bit gimmicky, but if you look at the broader trend I think we're seeing an inevitable response to the superspecialization of football. As the rules have evolved to protect quarterbacks in passing offenses defenses have become increasingly specialized in personnel and packages. Teams have 1st down defensive linemen, 3rd down defensive linemen, etc. At some point someone was going to neutralize the advantage of running a specialized defense namely by (1) having a more mobile quarterback who can pass just enough to keep a defense from keying on him, and (2) running some time of hurry up so that defenses can't get set and can't substitute.

I know that this is a bit of a simplistic assessment, but I do think that there will simply be a correction by defenses to not be so specialized and to have more every down athletes on the field.
It's ironic that simplicity has been used to combat complexity. You're right, with defenses getting more NFL like and complex over the years isn't it ironic simplicity is used to defeat it? LOL!
 

Bama Czar

1st Team
Sep 1, 2010
389
39
52
Woodstock, GA
I agree that these hurry up/spread offenses are a bit gimmicky, but if you look at the broader trend I think we're seeing an inevitable response to the superspecialization of football. As the rules have evolved to protect quarterbacks in passing offenses defenses have become increasingly specialized in personnel and packages. Teams have 1st down defensive linemen, 3rd down defensive linemen, etc. At some point someone was going to neutralize the advantage of running a specialized defense namely by (1) having a more mobile quarterback who can pass just enough to keep a defense from keying on him, and/or (2) running some type of hurry up so that defenses can't get set and can't substitute.

I know that this is a bit of a simplistic assessment, but I do think that there will simply be a correction by defenses to not be so specialized and to have more every down athletes on the field.
I hear you on the specialization, but that doesn't really keep you from being able to get a play call in on D. It does affect your substitution and endurance, but the premise of this hurry-up crap is to try and get lined up & snap the ball before you can make a play call and line up. IMO, this is sissy football. It is very much like "sucker punching" someone in a fight. Just hit them when their back is turned type O. I would rather just be a man, line up, and let's go. If you beat me, you beat me.... for me, there would be no honor in winning a fight where I had sucker punched someone when they were taking their coat off or something.....

Dang, I get mad just typing this.......frickin' sissies....
 

imauafan

All-American
Mar 3, 2004
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It's ironic that simplicity has been used to combat complexity. You're right, with defenses getting more NFL like and complex over the years isn't it ironic simplicity is used to defeat it? LOL!
I wish our lawmakers would realize this and abolish the complex tax code for a more simple one. :)
 

imauafan

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Mar 3, 2004
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I hear you on the specialization, but that doesn't really keep you from being able to get a play call in on D. It does affect your substitution and endurance, but the premise of this hurry-up crap is to try and get lined up & snap the ball before you can make a play call and line up. IMO, this is sissy football. It is very much like "sucker punching" someone in a fight. Just hit them when their back is turned type O. I would rather just be a man, line up, and let's go. If you beat me, you beat me.... for me, there would be no honor in winning a fight where I had sucker punched someone when they were taking their coat off or something.....

Dang, I get mad just typing this.......frickin' sissies....
Using your philosophy the colonists should have lined up in formations in nice clean uniforms and met the British in an open field to do battle. AFter all, that is the honorable and manly way to fight a war. Not making fun of you just pointing out that you do what you have to do to win the game. One philosophy really is no better than another. As long as it's within the rules of the game then I have no problem with the HUNH offense. I like to see coaches think outside the box and come up with different strategies. Now it's time for our coaches to do the same.
 

Bama Czar

1st Team
Sep 1, 2010
389
39
52
Woodstock, GA
Using your philosophy the colonists should have lined up in formations in nice clean uniforms and met the British in an open field to do battle. AFter all, that is the honorable and manly way to fight a war. Not making fun of you just pointing out that you do what you have to do to win the game. One philosophy really is no better than another. As long as it's within the rules of the game then I have no problem with the HUNH offense. I like to see coaches think outside the box and come up with different strategies. Now it's time for our coaches to do the same.
Wow, you would really use a single blanket philosophy to apply to all situations....? Certainly, if it were life or death, the philosophy would change, right? Maybe?
 

imauafan

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Mar 3, 2004
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Wow, you would really use a single blanket philosophy to apply to all situations....? Certainly, if it were life or death, the philosophy would change, right? Maybe?
Huh? I'm not sure how you got that from what I wrote. No, I'm saying use whatever philosophy works best for you and don't be so tied to a single approach that you walk mindlessly over a cliff.
 

Bamabuzzard

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Using your philosophy the colonists should have lined up in formations in nice clean uniforms and met the British in an open field to do battle. AFter all, that is the honorable and manly way to fight a war. Not making fun of you just pointing out that you do what you have to do to win the game. One philosophy really is no better than another. As long as it's within the rules of the game then I have no problem with the HUNH offense. I like to see coaches think outside the box and come up with different strategies. Now it's time for our coaches to do the same.
You're comparing war where there are no rules to a sport where there are rules implemented to create a competitive balance? Come'on Man!!!

Let's be honest. The game of football has been changed to create a competitive advantage for the offense. You've got coaches who admit that (Rich Rod of Arizona). The HUNH does nothing more than tilt the advantage even further. But comparing it to fighting a war is a bit much.
 

47Wins

New Member
Dec 4, 2006
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I hear you on the specialization, but that doesn't really keep you from being able to get a play call in on D. It does affect your substitution and endurance, but the premise of this hurry-up crap is to try and get lined up & snap the ball before you can make a play call and line up. IMO, this is sissy football. It is very much like "sucker punching" someone in a fight. Just hit them when their back is turned type O. I would rather just be a man, line up, and let's go. If you beat me, you beat me.... for me, there would be no honor in winning a fight where I had sucker punched someone when they were taking their coat off or something.....

Dang, I get mad just typing this.......frickin' sissies....
I can see it now "15 yard penalty for not playing like Czar thinks you should"
 

crimsonaudio

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Sep 9, 2002
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It's ironic that simplicity has been used to combat complexity. You're right, with defenses getting more NFL like and complex over the years isn't it ironic simplicity is used to defeat it? LOL!
I don't think that's the case. Again, the defense played well, and they weren't 'out-schemed', imo. The secondary was simply a liability - has really been so much of the year. With some experience and perhaps different personnel, we win last night. They carved us up passing in the first half because we weren't pressuring and the secondary couldn't stop it. In the second half, we slowed them down quite a bit offensively, affected the QB, etc., but the secondary still gave up the big plays.

After mulling it over overnight, I'm convinced that a scheme change is unnecessary - it's all about having the right (experienced) players.
 

imauafan

All-American
Mar 3, 2004
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Huntsville, AL
You're comparing war where there are no rules to a sport where there are rules implemented to create a competitive balance? Come'on Man!!!

Let's be honest. The game of football has been changed to create a competitive advantage for the offense. You've got coaches who admit that (Rich Rod of Arizona). The HUNH does nothing more than tilt the advantage even further. But comparing it to fighting a war is a bit much.
My point was the british thought that war should be fought in an open field with long straight lines and clean uniforms. You fire your musket, they fire their musket, you lose some, they lose some, regroup and repeat. According to them that was the honorable and noble way to fight a war. I compare that to those that think that every football team should ine up and play smashmouth football. Sometimes to win the game you have to hide behind rocks and trees and fire your musket from there. Hope this makes my point more clear.
 

Bama Czar

1st Team
Sep 1, 2010
389
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Woodstock, GA
My point was the british thought that war should be fought in an open field with long straight lines and clean uniforms. You fire your musket, they fire their musket, you lose some, they lose some, regroup and repeat. According to them that was the honorable and noble way to fight a war. I compare that to those that think that every football team should ine up and play smashmouth football. Sometimes to win the game you have to hide behind rocks and trees and fire your musket from there. Hope this makes my point more clear.
No one said that you have to play smash mouth football. Play any style you wish. Just give the opponent the opportunity to set up and compete. That's all.....
 

Bamabuzzard

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My point was the british thought that war should be fought in an open field with long straight lines and clean uniforms. You fire your musket, they fire their musket, you lose some, they lose some, regroup and repeat. According to them that was the honorable and noble way to fight a war. I compare that to those that think that every football team should ine up and play smashmouth football. Sometimes to win the game you have to hide behind rocks and trees and fire your musket from there. Hope this makes my point more clear.
I understand your point but your point has to be taken in context of the fact that a game has rules that are supposed to keep competitive balance. Over the years ANYTIME the rules committee thought the defense had a competitive advantage the following year a rule was changed to eliminate it. But the same principle doesn't go the other way. There hasn't been a rule that I can remember implemented due to the offense having a competitive advantage. I think that's the point of disgust.
 

brutetough

1st Team
Dec 11, 2010
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I don't think that's the case. Again, the defense played well, and they weren't 'out-schemed', imo. The secondary was simply a liability - has really been so much of the year. With some experience and perhaps different personnel, we win last night. They carved us up passing in the first half because we weren't pressuring and the secondary couldn't stop it. In the second half, we slowed them down quite a bit offensively, affected the QB, etc., but the secondary still gave up the big plays.

After mulling it over overnight, I'm convinced that a scheme change is unnecessary - it's all about having the right (experienced) players.
Our scheme is hinged on top notch DB play. Unfortunately, we didn't have that this year.
 

47Wins

New Member
Dec 4, 2006
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No, no penalty.....I just think that running that type O means, you're a pansy that can't compete "straight up". Therefore, you have to sucker punch me. That's all......
I'm pretty sure they said the same thing about the forward pass.....