The case for a progressive foreign policy

CharminTide

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I don't expect many here to hold an overly positive opinion of Bernie Sanders, but he just gave a great talk on foreign policy. Specifically, he reframed the discussion of foreign policy in a manner most politicians are unwilling to do. The video is long, so here's a summary:

At the heart of his speech was the argument that the divide between domestic and foreign policy is not only artificial but also counterproductive. An expansive view of foreign policy—not merely as the idea of what happens over there, but also as part of who we are here at home—challenges us to enlarge our own thinking. Foreign policy, in Sanders’s argument, is not just about whether we go to war or not. It is about our democracy at home; it is about climate change; it is about global oligarchy; and it is about how American leadership can come together and solve the challenges we face through diplomacy.

Sanders rightly connects the dots between an exploding Pentagon budget and Republican attempts to take health care away from tens of millions of Americans in the name of fiscal responsibility. He makes clear that a progressive foreign policy also means that “We cannot convincingly promote democracy abroad if we do not live it vigorously here at home.” And in the way he does so well, Sanders reminds us that no progressive view of the world can tolerate the massive wealth inequality both here and around the world.

He reminds us that hundreds of millions live in poverty, dying of preventable diseases, while arms makers rake in trillions from weapons of war. He reminds us that America’s history of interventions—from Iran to Chile to right now in Yemen—have a habit of having devastating results. And he reminds us that there is a path between endless war and isolationism, that America’s greatest successes came when it helped support not just our allies but also our former enemies, as we did with the Marshall Plan.

To bring this all home, Sanders points to two diametrically opposed visions of American foreign policy that played out in recent years. In reminding us of the horrors of the Iraq War and juxtaposing it with the unbridled success of the Iran nuclear deal, Bernie helps make clear that this is not some esoteric debate.

 

selmaborntidefan

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This country had a choice and Bernie Sanders couldn't even win his own party's nomination so.......it's safe to say the country as a whole disagrees with this.
 

Bodhisattva

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I agree that the default setting on our foreign policy should be non-interventionist. It doesn't follow that we have massive wealth redistribution to fund socialistic domestic policy. Sanders claims big government is destructive abroad but somehow wonderful domestically? You can't ignore half of reality.
 

CharminTide

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This country had a choice and Bernie Sanders couldn't even win his own party's nomination so.......it's safe to say the country as a whole disagrees with this.
You know that's an oversimplification.

His juxtaposition of the GOP handing the Pentagon $700 billion (more money than was requested, mind you) while simultaneously campaigning to eliminate health insurance from millions of Americans in order to finance a giant tax cut for the 1% is a pretty sharp criticism, considering current events. And he's spot on when stating that you can't separate foreign and domestic policies in 2017. Investment in either comes from the same communal pot, and IMO we've been dumping far too much into foreign concerns while ignoring domestic investment. The Iran deal may not be perfect, but I'd suggest it has had a more positive outcome than the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan. It's obviously been far less expensive. Many European countries have very small military budgets, but invest considerably more money to offer free/affordable education and healthcare to its citizens. IMO, investing in people and the future citizenry is typically more effective on a societal level than investing in the monetary black hole that is the F-22 project. Now, I'm not suggesting that we swing as far to the domestic side of the investment spectrum as much of Europe, but we've lived on the far opposite end for a very long time. I think it's a discussion worth having, and I'm glad Bernie is bringing it up both here and in his universal healthcare proposal (which I don't entirely support).

This isn't directed at you, Selma, but I was hoping this thread could focus on the substantive points he brings up rather than rehashing memes from the 2016 primaries.
 

CharminTide

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I agree that the default setting on our foreign policy should be non-interventionist.
Wait, are we agreeing? I don't understand.

It doesn't follow that we have massive wealth redistribution to fund socialistic domestic policy. Sanders claims big government is destructive abroad but somehow wonderful domestically? You can't ignore half of reality.
Honest question: social programs like free or heavily subsidized public education (with the option of personally funded private education) seem to be very popular and effective in other parts of the world. Why don't you believe a similar program could possibly work here as well?
 

Displaced Bama Fan

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CT - I'll agree with you that our military budget is completely out of this world. I've stated several times that our actions in Iraq and Afghanistan should have never occurred. We've lost thousands of lives unnecessarily, tens of thousands more have been scarred physically & emotionally as well as hundreds of thousands more affected dealing with their loved ones. On top of that, we've seen the massive "aid" packages going to these nations to rebuild infrastructure we destroyed, put in infrastructure that hasn't existed before while our internal infrastructure crumbles coupled with the trillions we've spent "waging" these wars.



We continue to pile on more debt for the next generation and we aren't truly doing anything to stop it. We need a clean sweep of all politicians in DC to put an end to the madness.
 

Displaced Bama Fan

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and you think that the people of this country made an informed choice? lol
No, an emotional one. It wasn't the right one, but it was emotional one. We're so starved for some sort of leadership that if one projects some sort of confidence and strength, he'll get elected...and he did.
 

TideEngineer08

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I agree that we should focus our energies and efforts on taking care of our own instead of throwing away trillions on other countries. But, ironically, is that not what Trump's mantra has been from the beginning? Yes I realize the devil is in the details, but the core message is the same.

Also, it is hard to ignore the primaries, Charmin. It's hard to take this man seriously when he was so mocked by everyone on the traditional Left.
 

Bodhisattva

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Wait, are we agreeing? I don't understand.
Being a libertarian, I would think we would agree on things about half the time.

Honest question: social programs like free or heavily subsidized public education (with the option of personally funded private education) seem to be very popular and effective in other parts of the world. Why don't you believe a similar program could possibly work here as well?
In short, my preference is for vouchers so parents can choose the best school for their kids. Public schools are hit and miss. Let parents use market forces to make public schools better.
 

Jon

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Wait, are we agreeing? I don't understand.

Being a libertarian, I would think we would agree on this about half the time.



In short, my preference is for vouchers so parents can choose the best school for their kids. Public schools are hit and miss. Let parents use market forces to make public schools better.
except for the fact that they don't actually do it. Often they use vouchers to send kids to religious indoctrination schools that provide a joke of an education but a faithful and dedicated GOP drone voter so all is well
 

Bodhisattva

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except for the fact that they don't actually do it. Often they use vouchers to send kids to religious indoctrination schools that provide a joke of an education but a faithful and dedicated GOP drone voter so all is well
Unless the parents are harming their children I'll defer to their choices for their kids. My default setting is to let people make their own choices and reap the rewards/detriments of those decisions.
 
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uafanataum

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I would say there was nothing wrong with going to war with Iraq or Afghanistan. Where the problem was created is the execution and continuously moving the goal posts to extend the length of the wars. Also, for some reason military contracting companies ended up with alot of the money, and much of it was profit. We need to direct the money in the military more efficiently, not to cut the military. Also, when we cause 100billion in damage to a country that attacked us or broke international law, do not spend 1trillion rebuilding them. Anyone can do the math and figure out it's profitable to go to war with us.
 

Displaced Bama Fan

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Being a libertarian, I would think we would agree on things about half the time.



In short, my preference is for vouchers so parents can choose the best school for their kids. Public schools are hit and miss. Let parents use market forces to make public schools better.
Where does the money come from for vouchers? State level? In Texas, we have independent school districts. So, now kids from another district can attend a school in our district? Uh, no. Tax rates vary from district to district and let's be honest, I didn't move to the district I'm in and to the neighborhood we did so my kids would go to school with kids from lower socio-economic backgrounds. There, I said it. Too bad others won't but I did. I work two jobs to keep my kids in that house, pay the ridiculous property taxes I do so my kids can attend the schools they do.

So no, I'm not in favor of vouchers. Otherwise I'd move back to our old house and ship my kids to the school they go to and it not cost me a dime more.
 
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Displaced Bama Fan

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I would say there was nothing wrong with going to war with Iraq or Afghanistan. Where the problem was created is the execution and continuously moving the goal posts to extend the length of the wars. Also, for some reason military contracting companies ended up with alot of the money, and much of it was profit. We need to direct the money in the military more efficiently, not to cut the military. Also, when we cause 100billion in damage to a country that attacked us or broke international law, do not spend 1trillion rebuilding them. Anyone can do the math and figure out it's profitable to go to war with us.
I disagree. First of all, the threat in Iraq was never clearly defined and Afghanistan, did we not learn anything from the Soviet attempt to pacify that area? The Russians are still laughing at us.
 

uafanataum

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I disagree. First of all, the threat in Iraq was never clearly defined and Afghanistan, did we not learn anything from the Soviet attempt to pacify that area? The Russians are still laughing at us.
Some terrorists from Afghanistan blew up the world trade center and killed thousands of US citizens. They definitely deserved a good butt kicking. The problem with that war is we spent more time rebuilding them thank kicking their butts. We should have wrecked them and left them.
 

Displaced Bama Fan

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Some terrorists from Afghanistan blew up the world trade center and killed thousands of US citizens. They definitely deserved a good butt kicking. The problem with that war is we spent more time rebuilding them thank kicking their butts. We should have wrecked them and left them.
The terrorists weren't from Afghanistan. The one dude who funded it, was hiding out there but he was Saudi. The terrorists were mostly here on student visas and most were Saudis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijackers_in_the_September_11_attacks
 

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