Paying Players

[rgw]

I don’t think the payments end up being as large as some may think and it may come at the cost of some fringe support structures. It is hard to guess what those may be...I’m guessing the barber shops and such may go the way of the dodo. And lets be clear, those fringe benefits were explicitly started as ways to compensate the players in ways other than cash payment.

 

[CrimsonProf]

I don’t think the payments end up being as large as some may think and it may come at the cost of some fringe support structures. It is hard to guess what those may be...I’m guessing the barber shops and such may go the way of the dodo. And lets be clear, those fringe benefits were explicitly started as ways to compensate the players in ways other than cash payment.

True - I'd like to see the numbers on that, but it's a start. Problem is that most schools don't have a barber shop, so they're left scrounging.

 

[BamaNation]

I don’t have the answers to this but it feels like the value of a generic bachelor’s degree is much less than what it was a few decades ago. Unless you get a degree in specific fields, it doesn’t seem to have the legs it once had for kickstarting a career. Just so happens those specific fields are often not the ones athletes choose because of the time investment. You’ve essentially got to be working on two careers in parallel: STEM + NFL.

So is a bachelor’s degree a good trade in 2020 for the better players in FBS? Almost certainly not. It is likely still worth it from fringe P5 caliber and below though.

You're correct: If you get a generic degree, you're going to get a generic salary. The value of a degree is based on what the market is willing to pay someone with said degree. If you get one of those highly rated Awburn underwater basket weaving degrees, you're probably going to starve. People who spend $50k/year to get a degree in something that nobody is going to pay them enough to pay back their student loans are stupid. Can't view it any other way. People who go to college and spend $50k/year to just "get a degree" and then start looking for a job after they graduate are stupid. No other way to view it. People who complain that "college costs too much and should be free" are stupid. Get.A.Degree.That.Means.Something.

Try not doing so and see what happens.

 

[rgw]

You're correct: If you get a generic degree, you're going to get a generic salary. The value of a degree is based on what the market is willing to pay someone with said degree. If you get one of those highly rated Awburn underwater basket weaving degrees, you're probably going to starve. People who spend $50k/year to get a degree in something that nobody is going to pay them enough to pay back their student loans are stupid. Can't view it any other way. People who go to college and spend $50k/year to just "get a degree" and then start looking for a job after they graduate are stupid. No other way to view it. People who complain that "college costs too much and should be free" are stupid. Get.A.Degree.That.Means.Something.

Try not doing so and see what happens.

I agree with this in abstract but there are plenty of things we need highly educated people to execute so we can be a highly functioning society but the labor market circumstances for whatever reason do not recognize their necessity. The obvious example are educators and entry-level college instructors/professors. In general, the broad survey of that profession's salaries compared to education level required does not match up. We need too many people with these qualifications to say that only those who can afford the economic utility waste of the qualification should do it.

But I am totally with you on "degree mill" programs. They don't serve an academic purpose (advancing human knowledge) nor an economic purpose (providing skills that can be exploited for financial gain).

 

[BamaMoon]

Sorry, posted in wrong thread...

 

[BamaNation]

I agree with this in abstract but there are plenty of things we need highly educated people to execute so we can be a highly functioning society but the labor market circumstances for whatever reason do not recognize their necessity. The obvious example are educators and entry-level college instructors/professors. In general, the broad survey of that profession's salaries compared to education level required does not match up. We need too many people with these qualifications to say that only those who can afford the economic utility waste of the qualification should do it.

But I am totally with you on "degree mill" programs. They don't serve an academic purpose (advancing human knowledge) nor an economic purpose (providing skills that can be exploited for financial gain).

To be clear and given I'm a college professor, I'm not in any way discounting the value of a college degree except to point out some degree programs are useless (or at least don't pay $30-50K/year to get it!).

A degree is a qualifier and not a guarantee of a job. It shows you have the attitude and aptitude for improving your altitude.

 

[Im_on_dsp]

Unless you get a medical degree (either doctor or nurse), or a business degree like Accounting or Finance, or an education degree then college is not a job training ground. If you get a bachelors degree in any of Arts and Sciences, or even some of the business areas you aren't going to find any job in that field. The problem is that so many employers won't even talk to you if you don't have a degree. It can be a degree in something totally unrelated but without it you can't get in the front door. I think that's one of the reasons people are getting worthless degrees.

 

[BamaNation]

Unless you get a medical degree (either doctor or nurse), or a business degree like Accounting or Finance, or an education degree then college is not a job training ground. If you get a bachelors degree in any of Arts and Sciences, or even some of the business areas you aren't going to find any job in that field. The problem is that so many employers won't even talk to you if you don't have a degree. It can be a degree in something totally unrelated but without it you can't get in the front door. I think that's one of the reasons people are getting worthless degrees.

The caveat to my harsh statement above is if you're at an Ivy league or top 25 school, you can major in just about anything and get a good job - if you choose to do so. Investment banks hire Harvard history and art majors because they are probably smart (they got into Harvard somehow), hard working (they did what was necessary to get into and through Harvard), and well connected (they are now Harvard grads). They can train them to crunch numbers, do company valuations, etc.

If you're not at one of these elite schools, good luck using your degree if you choose something where only the Ivy grads get the jobs. But we're not talking about Ivy kids and I'm not at all worried about them. If they don't get the jobs and owe 400K in student loans, too bad. They made their bed and now have to lay in it. The kids at the state schools are the ones who really need to evaluate why they went to college in the first place and do everything they can (internships, studying, connecting, volunteering, etc) to get a good job.

Back to the topic ... Paid players are called professionals. There's a league or three for that.

 

[B1GTide]

Unless you get a medical degree (either doctor or nurse), or a business degree like Accounting or Finance, or an education degree then college is not a job training ground. If you get a bachelors degree in any of Arts and Sciences, or even some of the business areas you aren't going to find any job in that field. The problem is that so many employers won't even talk to you if you don't have a degree. It can be a degree in something totally unrelated but without it you can't get in the front door. I think that's one of the reasons people are getting worthless degrees.

Agree 100% with this statement. Unless you work in a field that requires a specific degree, any degree will open that door. That means that it will get you the interview. From that point it is totally up to the individual. Interpersonal skills and a positive attitude will land you a job with weaker qualifications, including weaker degrees.

I know many, many people making a great living working in fields not even remotely related to their degrees. But you have to have interpersonal skills.

 

[The Ols]

What employer pays for heath care for former employees, as a whole, for six years after they are gone?

Where else do you go to work and get your bell rung daily for 3-5 years?
***Edit: The NFL

 

[DogPatch]

Where else do you go to work and get your bell rung daily for 3-5 years?
***Edit: The NFL

Not daily. Once a week for 18-21 weeks per year.

 

[The Ols]

Not daily. Once a week for 18-21 weeks per year.

You don’t think concussions happen in practice?

 

[Rama Jama]

This has turned into wht is a degree really worth at a state school. It is worth what you choose to do with it. It opens doors, but doesn't guarantee success. College players receive a free education and many end up with masters degrees in their time at a school. They receive tuition room and board (food prepared on demand by a chef no less), a stipend and many receive pell grants on top of those benefits. Now with image and likeness, the best players are going to are going to be schilling for the local car dealer or lumber company(and you know who that is). It is going to create a poor attitude amount some teammates who will get little to no image or likeness compensation . This is professional ball and it will be all about the kids who are stars. The question will be is how the o-line will feel about a an getting possibly 7 figures while they get nothing.

 

[DogPatch]

You don’t think concussions happen in practice?

Didn't say that. Just pointing out they don't have contact every day.

 

[BamaNation]

Agree 100% with this statement. Unless you work in a field that requires a specific degree, any degree will open that door. That means that it will get you the interview. From that point it is totally up to the individual. Interpersonal skills and a positive attitude will land you a job with weaker qualifications, including weaker degrees.

I know many, many people making a great living working in fields not even remotely related to their degrees. But you have to have interpersonal skills.

And you actually have to show up every day and on time and not be first one out the door! I know of so many cases where someone is hired into a pretty good job and after a few weeks decides it's no problem to not come in that day or to come in late or leave at noon, etc. OF course, who knows what will happen in a post-C19 world where people have worked from home for 12 months. You still have to be ready to work when work is happening.

Also, I also ask my students what's important when they're looking for a job. A good many will say "work/life balance." My response is if you tell that to the interviewer you'll get a lot of life and not much work. Work/life balance is earned IMHO ... unless you are independently wealthy or don't care to earn your living or just want to live in a tent (or mamma's basement) and smoke "good ones" all day.

 

[mrusso]

This has turned into wht is a degree really worth at a state school. It is worth what you choose to do with it. It opens doors, but doesn't guarantee success. College players receive a free education and many end up with masters degrees in their time at a school. They receive tuition room and board (food prepared on demand by a chef no less), a stipend and many receive pell grants on top of those benefits. Now with image and likeness, the best players are going to are going to be schilling for the local car dealer or lumber company(and you know who that is). It is going to create a poor attitude amount some teammates who will get little to no image or likeness compensation . This is professional ball and it will be all about the kids who are stars. The question will be is how the o-line will feel about a an getting possibly 7 figures while they get nothing.

You could ask the same question to an NFL team. For the record, I'm against paying players.

 

[NoNC4Tubs]

Not daily. Once a week for 18-21 weeks per year.

Practice has bell ringing. .

 

[4Q Basket Case]

There are three major issues:

1. The disparity between what the stars can get in the open market for NIL, vs. what the average player can get. Tua is seven figures. Pierce Quick.....???? Holds in Tuscaloosa, and is even more clear in lesser programs -- like Nick Fitzpatrick vs. the rest of the MSUs team.

So how do you allow for that? Or do you at all?

2. The extent to which boosters (think Jimmy Rane, Jimmy Haslam, or Phil Knight) would go to make up the difference. These guys are bad enough as it is. Unfettered by the NCAA, they could easily pay a scrub DL six figures for a no-show summer internship conditioned on not transferring to another school.

They have the money, and I think the willingness, to convert the recruiting process into an auction -- that they could lose only because they don't want to win.

3. And I think a lot of people have lost track of Bazza's point on the IRS. Stuff gets real taxable real quick. And if you're a 1099'd professional for purposes of getting an endorsement from YellaWood, which endorsement is obviously derived from your prowess on the football field, how is it that you're not a professional to the extent of the cost of your tuition, room, board, nutritional supplements, books and stipend?

Secondary interesting question: In the new world order, the currently-untaxed scholarship benefits would be almost entirely non-cash income that would nevertheless be taxable...in cash.

In other words, we're all used to being paid in cash, and to paying taxes in cash. We typically get the cash to pay the tax from the income received in cash. But if you have taxable non-cash income, you have to get the cash to pay the tax from somewhere else.....where, exactly, might that be? For the Tuas of the world, it's from the plentiful cash income left over after paying tax on it. What about the less-marketable guys?

And just for the record, under most circumstances, income tax liability isn't dischargeable in bankruptcy. You just have to deal with it.

Unintended consequences abound.

 

[DogPatch]

Practice has bell ringing. .

These days, practice is more like two hand touch.

 

[Padreruf]

There are three major issues:



3. And I think a lot of people have lost track of Bazza's point on the IRS. Stuff gets real taxable real quick. And if you're a 1099'd professional for purposes of getting an endorsement from YellaWood, which endorsement is obviously derived from your prowess on the football field, how is it that you're not a professional to the extent of the cost of your tuition, room, board, nutritional supplements, books and stipend?

Secondary interesting question: In the new world order, the currently-untaxed scholarship benefits would be almost entirely non-cash income that would nevertheless be taxable...in cash.

In other words, we're all used to being paid in cash, and to paying taxes in cash. We typically get the cash to pay the tax from the income received in cash. But if you have taxable non-cash income, you have to get the cash to pay the tax from somewhere else.....where, exactly, might that be? For the Tuas of the world, it's from the plentiful cash income left over after paying tax on it. What about the less-marketable guys?

And just for the record, under most circumstances, income tax liability isn't dischargeable in bankruptcy. You just have to deal with it.

Unintended consequences abound.

This is the main reason players will not be paid...most will not have a source of cash income to pay taxes on all the benefits they receive. Those include medical services, training services, etc. All are a benefit to the player -- and are taxable if the player is an "employee" of the school.