Mass shootings . . . . pt 2.

[TexasBama]

SMH

Uvalde Police Enlist Bikers to Block Reporters Covering Funerals: Report

Members of biker groups reportedly demanded that journalists "stay on the sidewalk" as mourners paid their respects to 10-year-old Eliahana Torres on Thursday.

www.newsweek.com

 

[92tide]

SMH

Uvalde Police Enlist Bikers to Block Reporters Covering Funerals: Report

Members of biker groups reportedly demanded that journalists "stay on the sidewalk" as mourners paid their respects to 10-year-old Eliahana Torres on Thursday.

www.newsweek.com

(cowardly) fascists are going to fascist.

 

[Chukker Veteran]

SMH

Uvalde Police Enlist Bikers to Block Reporters Covering Funerals: Report

Members of biker groups reportedly demanded that journalists "stay on the sidewalk" as mourners paid their respects to 10-year-old Eliahana Torres on Thursday.

www.newsweek.com

Not surprising that a police department too timid to storm one teenager with a gun would turn to a biker gang to keep public order.

They were trying to keep the reporters from interacting with the families. I wonder if the reporters have any idea how many children were shot or bled out while the police dithered at the classroom door.

 

[Huckleberry]

I think some combination of these proposals would have some positive effect:

1) ban the purchase of ammunition magazines that hold more than 10 bullets
2) allow the police and other citizens to seek a court order to temporarily confiscate guns from people who are deemed an immediate threat to themselves or others
3) expand the federal background check law to also apply to gun shows and online sales
4) require that all firearms be kept locked, unloaded, and stored separately from ammunition, as well as make owners who fail to follow the requirement criminally and civilly liable for actions taken (as a result of said failure) by minors and others not allowed by law to posess firearms
5) ban the sale of any firearm to a person under the age of 21
5) ban the sale of "assault weapon" as defined under HR 1808:

The term ‘semiautomatic assault weapon’ means any of the following, regardless of country of manufacture or caliber of ammunition accepted:
“(A) A semiautomatic rifle that—
“(i) has a magazine that is not a fixed magazine; and
“(ii) does have any 1 of the following:
“(I) A pistol grip.
“(II) A forward grip.
“(III) A folding, telescoping, or detachable stock, or is otherwise foldable or adjustable in a manner that operates to reduce the length, size, or any other dimension, or otherwise enhances the concealability, of the weapon.
“(IV) A grenade launcher.
“(V) A barrel shroud.
“(VI) A threaded barrel.
“(B) A semiautomatic rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, except for an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition.
“(C) Any part, combination of parts, component, device, attachment, or accessory that is designed or functions to accelerate the rate of fire of a semiautomatic firearm but not convert the semiautomatic firearm into a machinegun.
“(D) A semiautomatic pistol that—
“(i) has a magazine that is not a fixed magazine; and
“(ii) does have any 1 of the following:
“(I) A threaded barrel.
“(II) A second pistol grip.
“(III) A barrel shroud.
“(IV) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
“(V) A semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm.
“(VI) A manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when unloaded.
“(VII) A stabilizing brace or similar component.
“(E) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
“(F) A semiautomatic shotgun that—
“(i) has the capacity to utilize a magazine that is not a fixed magazine; and
“(ii) does have any 1 of the following:
“(I) A folding, telescoping, or detachable stock.
“(II) A pistol grip or bird's head grip.
“(III) A fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 5 rounds.
“(IV) The ability to accept a detachable magazine.
“(V) A forward grip.
“(VI) A grenade launcher.
“(G) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

 

[Chukker Veteran]

I think some combination of these proposals would have some positive effect:

1) ban the purchase of ammunition magazines that hold more than 10 bullets
2) allow the police and other citizens to seek a court order to temporarily confiscate guns from people who are deemed an immediate threat to themselves or others
3) expand the federal background check law to also apply to gun shows and online sales
4) require that all firearms be kept locked, unloaded, and stored separately from ammunition, as well as make owners who fail to follow the requirement criminally and civilly liable for actions taken (as a result of said failure) by minors and others not allowed by law to posess firearms
5) ban the sale of any firearm to a person under the age of 21
5) ban the sale of "assault weapon" as defined under HR 1808:

The term ‘semiautomatic assault weapon’ means any of the following, regardless of country of manufacture or caliber of ammunition accepted:
“(A) A semiautomatic rifle that—
“(i) has a magazine that is not a fixed magazine; and
“(ii) does have any 1 of the following:
“(I) A pistol grip.
“(II) A forward grip.
“(III) A folding, telescoping, or detachable stock, or is otherwise foldable or adjustable in a manner that operates to reduce the length, size, or any other dimension, or otherwise enhances the concealability, of the weapon.
“(IV) A grenade launcher.
“(V) A barrel shroud.
“(VI) A threaded barrel.
“(B) A semiautomatic rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, except for an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition.
“(C) Any part, combination of parts, component, device, attachment, or accessory that is designed or functions to accelerate the rate of fire of a semiautomatic firearm but not convert the semiautomatic firearm into a machinegun.
“(D) A semiautomatic pistol that—
“(i) has a magazine that is not a fixed magazine; and
“(ii) does have any 1 of the following:
“(I) A threaded barrel.
“(II) A second pistol grip.
“(III) A barrel shroud.
“(IV) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
“(V) A semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm.
“(VI) A manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when unloaded.
“(VII) A stabilizing brace or similar component.
“(E) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
“(F) A semiautomatic shotgun that—
“(i) has the capacity to utilize a magazine that is not a fixed magazine; and
“(ii) does have any 1 of the following:
“(I) A folding, telescoping, or detachable stock.
“(II) A pistol grip or bird's head grip.
“(III) A fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 5 rounds.
“(IV) The ability to accept a detachable magazine.
“(V) A forward grip.
“(VI) A grenade launcher.
“(G) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

Thanks for the detail in addressing what qualifies a weapon being included in the proposed ban.
As I’m not familiar enough with firearms to be specific but I knew there are those that are.

 

[Bamaro]

I'm just going on what was posted here, but the main thrust seems to be this:
"The bullet that comes out of the barrel of an AR-15 style semi-automatic rifle can easily penetrate the target – the intruder or whatever person you are using deadly force to defend yourself or others from.

But it also will go through the wall behind that person, and potentially through that room and into the next wall. That power and accuracy are useful for military purposes, which is obviously what they were designed for. But it’s far more power than should ever be in the hands of the average civilian"

This is true of every hunting rifle caliber sold. The .223/5.56 round is actually smaller and less powerful than most hunting rifles, which is why it's illegal (too small) to be used for hunting deer in some states.

Again, I've no problem discussing restricting some access to these firearms (despite the fact that I own them), but I detest people acting like it's some sort of super-rifle. It's not.

What are my shortcomings, Bamaro? What are Earle's?

Making sweeping attacks like this is an excellent way to look like a fool.

Apparently Earl realized my comment was a tongue in cheek generalization that was not directed at anyone specifically and didn't feel any need to reply. Since I dont know you the remark was not directed at you but it seems to have struck a nerve for some reason so I will drop this conversation.

I still wonder though what is is about these weapons that seems to make them the gun of choice when someone goes off the deep end and decides to commit a mass shooting.

 

[TexasBama]

I think some combination of these proposals would have some positive effect:

1) ban the purchase of ammunition magazines that hold more than 10 bullets
2) allow the police and other citizens to seek a court order to temporarily confiscate guns from people who are deemed an immediate threat to themselves or others
3) expand the federal background check law to also apply to gun shows and online sales
4) require that all firearms be kept locked, unloaded, and stored separately from ammunition, as well as make owners who fail to follow the requirement criminally and civilly liable for actions taken (as a result of said failure) by minors and others not allowed by law to posess firearms
5) ban the sale of any firearm to a person under the age of 21
5) ban the sale of "assault weapon" as defined under HR 1808:

The term ‘semiautomatic assault weapon’ means any of the following, regardless of country of manufacture or caliber of ammunition accepted:
“(A) A semiautomatic rifle that—
“(i) has a magazine that is not a fixed magazine; and
“(ii) does have any 1 of the following:
“(I) A pistol grip.
“(II) A forward grip.
“(III) A folding, telescoping, or detachable stock, or is otherwise foldable or adjustable in a manner that operates to reduce the length, size, or any other dimension, or otherwise enhances the concealability, of the weapon.
“(IV) A grenade launcher.
“(V) A barrel shroud.
“(VI) A threaded barrel.
“(B) A semiautomatic rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, except for an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition.
“(C) Any part, combination of parts, component, device, attachment, or accessory that is designed or functions to accelerate the rate of fire of a semiautomatic firearm but not convert the semiautomatic firearm into a machinegun.
“(D) A semiautomatic pistol that—
“(i) has a magazine that is not a fixed magazine; and
“(ii) does have any 1 of the following:
“(I) A threaded barrel.
“(II) A second pistol grip.
“(III) A barrel shroud.
“(IV) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
“(V) A semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm.
“(VI) A manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when unloaded.
“(VII) A stabilizing brace or similar component.
“(E) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
“(F) A semiautomatic shotgun that—
“(i) has the capacity to utilize a magazine that is not a fixed magazine; and
“(ii) does have any 1 of the following:
“(I) A folding, telescoping, or detachable stock.
“(II) A pistol grip or bird's head grip.
“(III) A fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 5 rounds.
“(IV) The ability to accept a detachable magazine.
“(V) A forward grip.
“(VI) A grenade launcher.
“(G) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

Gun sales by dealers at the shows are registered. I would say any sales or transfers should be registered and checked.

 

[TexasBama]

I'm just going on what was posted here, but the main thrust seems to be this:
"The bullet that comes out of the barrel of an AR-15 style semi-automatic rifle can easily penetrate the target – the intruder or whatever person you are using deadly force to defend yourself or others from.

But it also will go through the wall behind that person, and potentially through that room and into the next wall. That power and accuracy are useful for military purposes, which is obviously what they were designed for. But it’s far more power than should ever be in the hands of the average civilian"

This is true of every hunting rifle caliber sold. The .223/5.56 round is actually smaller and less powerful than most hunting rifles, which is why it's illegal (too small) to be used for hunting deer in some states.

Again, I've no problem discussing restricting some access to these firearms (despite the fact that I own them), but I detest people acting like it's some sort of super-rifle. It's not.

The last time I looked, you could hunt whitetail in Texas with .223. I wouldn’t, unless I had some really good optics. I remember Alabama being minimum .24 (I used to have a Wby .240 magnum). That was BTW a super gun.

 

[DzynKingRTR]

Not surprising that a police department too timid to storm one teenager with a gun would turn to a biker gang to keep public order.

They were trying to keep the reporters from interacting with the families. I wonder if the reporters have any idea how many children were shot or bled out while the police dithered at the classroom door.

I hate reporters for this reason. They need to let these families have a funeral and grieve. Guarantee that one of these parasites wanted to interview a parent anf ask them how they feel.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Apparently Earl realized my comment was a tongue in cheek generalization that was not directed at anyone specifically and didn't feel any need to reply. Since I dont know you the remark was not directed at you but it seems to have struck a nerve for some reason so I will drop this conversation.

I still wonder though what is is about these weapons that seems to make them the gun of choice when someone goes off the deep end and decides to commit a mass shooting.

One factor is the "glamour" copycat aspect, along with the military. The main factor, however, is that they are everywhere, millions of them. They are surprisingly inexpensive and, with minimal skill, you can build one with mail order parts even cheaper...

 

[crimsonaudio]

Apparently Earl realized my comment was a tongue in cheek generalization that was not directed at anyone specifically and didn't feel any need to reply. Since I dont know you the remark was not directed at you but it seems to have struck a nerve for some reason so I will drop this conversation.

I just grow weary of the silliness when we're discussing people's deaths as well as determining the boundaries regarding our individual rights.

I still wonder though what is is about these weapons that seems to make them the gun of choice when someone goes off the deep end and decides to commit a mass shooting.

They're remarkably efficient.

That said, easy to forget but the deadliest school shooting in US history utilized handguns.

IOW, I think we need to look at bigger picture issues here rather than focusing on specific types of firearms here. It's easy to get lost in the weeds and end up with ineffective laws that impact law-abiding firearm owners while not reducing the widespread deadly shootings.

 

[crimsonaudio]

Gun sales by dealers at the shows are registered. I would say any sales or transfers should be registered and checked.

And all internet sales require an FFL (which means a 4473 with background check), even for 'curio and relic' firearms.

 

[Huckleberry]

And all internet sales require an FFL (which means a 4473 with background check), even for 'curio and relic' firearms.

I believe this is true only for sales by registered dealers, though. I could be wrong, of course.

 

[crimsonaudio]

I believe this is true only for sales by registered dealers, though. I could be wrong, of course.

Well, it's a nuanced law. It is possible to buy a firearm from a private seller online if they are in your state and your state allows it.

And for the record I'm fine with passing a law requiring background checks for all firearm sales, though I'd like to see a caveat for family members.

 

[92tide]

An AR-15 designed for children shocks even the most jaded gun-control advocates

The JR-15 recently launched at an annual shooting-sports trade show. Gun safety and reform experts say it’s the most brazen example of marketing guns to kids they’ve ever seen.

www.fastcompany.com

 

[92tide]

Opinion | How guns are marked as a gateway to manliness

Research shows that men whose manhood is undermined are more likely to express a desire to own guns.

www.msnbc.com

 

[92tide]

Lawyers for 10-year-old victim zero in on marketing of gun used in Uvalde school shooting

As Texas lawmakers untangle the law enforcement response to the Uvalde shooting, lawyers have requested marketing information from the manufacturer of the weapon used in the shooting.

www.texastribune.org

 

[92tide]

i remember the slick tacti-cool marketing campaigns for high-powered hunting rifles when i was a kid

 

[TexasBama]

IOW, I think we need to look at bigger picture issues here rather than focusing on specific types of firearms here. It's easy to get lost in the weeds and end up with ineffective laws that impact law-abiding firearm owners while not reducing the widespread deadly shootings.

Yes. Magazine capacity should be the focus, including considering handguns (do you really need a 33 round mag for a Glock?).. It just happens that all the AR types and their knockoffs accept high capacity mags. Heck, I've got several 30 round mags for my mini14, which DIDN'T make the assault ban, and was used in the biggest mass shooting in history (Norway).

 

[92tide]

Yes. Magazine capacity should be the focus, including considering handguns (do you really need a 33 round mag for a Glock?).. It just happens that all the AR types and their knockoffs accept high capacity mags. Heck, I've got several 30 round mags for my mini14, which DIDN'T make the assault ban, and was used in the biggest mass shooting in history (Norway).

the marketing aspect should dealt with as well.