Coaching fit.

[BamaMoon]

i was making the same observations in the last 2-3 years of saban's tenure as well and i stand by it.

This is an uncomfortable truth some aren't willing to admit. It's usually newer posters who probably became Bama fans during CNS's tenure, but it's true.

Somebody said 2023 was the luckiest CNS had at Bama. I've warmed to that thinking too. How that team beat Georgia and won the SEC is beyond me. Some of the same characteristics of this year's OL. That might show up one game and disappear for 5. They showed up against Georgia in the SECCG and that's how we won it. Plain and simple. It was like CNS had one last rabbit to pull out of his coaching hat. Good for him. Left with an SEC trophy that he valued very highly. But the slippage started after the 2020 season and hasn't been corrected yet.

 

[tusks_n_raider]

i was making the same observations in the last 2-3 years of saban's tenure as well and i stand by it.

Give me a break.

Final 3 years

13-2 SEC Champs and NCG runner up (WR1 and WR2 out)

11-2 Won the Sugar Bowl and Bryce had a messed up shoulder most of the year. Two losses by 4 total points.

12-2 SEC Champs and lost in the Semis in OT to the eventual NC

You have to add up CNS’s final FIVE seasons combined to hit 8 losses.

He wasn’t getting routinely embarrassed by anybody.

Worst lost on the scoreboard was to UGA in the NCG but it was a 1 score game until the garbage pick 6.

The CNS slander is unreal on here.

His ‘decline’ years absolutely smoke this new staff.

 

[92tide]

Give me a break.

Final 3 years

13-2 SEC Champs and NCG runner up (WR1 and WR2 out)

11-2 Won the Sugar Bowl and Bryce had a messed up shoulder most of the year. Two losses by 4 total points.

12-2 SEC Champs and lost in the Semis in OT to the eventual NC

You have to add up CNS’s final FIVE seasons combined to hit 8 losses.

He wasn’t getting routinely embarrassed by anybody.

Worst lost on the scoreboard was to UGA in the NCG but it was a 1 score game until the garbage pick 6.

The CNS slander is unreal on here.

His ‘decline’ years absolutely smoke this new staff.

my statement had nothing to do with saban. it is about our fanbase

 

[tusks_n_raider]

my statement had nothing to do with saban. it is about our fanbase

Apologies.

To me it read as you thought we weren’t getting our monies worth.

 

[92tide]

Apologies.

To me it read as you thought we weren’t getting our monies worth.

no worries. roll tide.

honestly, as frustrating as it was at times, 2023 was one of my favorite saban years.

 

[bamaclimber]

No amount of NIL complexity, "football is just different now," inherited culture problems/personnel deficiencies that DeBoer inherited in the transition from Saban (all the excuses I keep hearing), justifies a 3-38 loss in a bowl game two years after said transition. There's no way to make this look like anything but a complete coaching failure.

 

[BamaInCummingGA]

I love how people literally attribute value to wins. Literally nothing else matters to those folks - if you don't win them all, or look awesome in every game, you're a bad hire.

None of these folks look at the team the coach inherited, nor the state of modern CFB recruiting, etc. It's literally all about how dominating you are as a HC - if you're not on all the time, you need to go...

SMH

I agree, in principal, to most of what you're saying.
But, it's not the fact that we lost today. It's how we lost and how ill prepared we looked.
I can handle losing to a better team. I can't handle losing and looking like you didn't even practice for the game.

 

[81usaf92]

Give me a break.

Final 3 years

13-2 SEC Champs and NCG runner up (WR1 and WR2 out)

11-2 Won the Sugar Bowl and Bryce had a messed up shoulder most of the year. Two losses by 4 total points.

12-2 SEC Champs and lost in the Semis in OT to the eventual NC

You have to add up CNS’s final FIVE seasons combined to hit 8 losses.

He wasn’t getting routinely embarrassed by anybody.

Worst lost on the scoreboard was to UGA in the NCG but it was a 1 score game until the garbage pick 6.

The CNS slander is unreal on here.

His ‘decline’ years absolutely smoke this new staff.

Okay where did the Patriots decline begin? Most of your average fans will say when Tom Brady left. But people in the know, former players, and in the organization have consistently said the year they won their last superbowl because they sold their souls for one last roster that could win it and abandoned the Patriot Way. It hurt their cap and roster for many years and they put a lot of faith that Belichick could do a complete reset on what he started in 2001. He couldn’t. The point is declines aren’t cliffs they are great seasons in which alarming compromises are made that go against an organization’s core beliefs.

Saban’s decline probably started the second Tua hit Smitty to beat Georgia. Because since then our coaching staff year in and year out has been nothing but ace recruiters and horrible developmental guys. Yes we won 1 NC, 4 SECCGs, and 4 playoff games in that time period but we were seeing that we weren’t accustomed to seeing from 08-17. We were seeing 30-40 points consistently put on us by elite offenses, we were seeing coaches in and out of the organization quicker than we could learn their names, we were one of the most highly penalized teams in several years, and we were seeing quality start to drop in fundamentals.

Yes I have no doubt we would almost certainly be better than what we are now under Saban, but there were kinks in the armor that would’ve eventually led to a 3-4 loss season down the line. We weren’t great at developing talent in his last 5-6 years and that is indisputable.

 

[BamaInCummingGA]

PSU & LSU wouldn't be happy with taking a 'butt whooping' like we did yesterday. They expect more as should we.

Man, Nobody is happy with taking a beating like that. But if the baby poops you don't throw away the baby. You change it.
Like other posters have said, yes, we have problems but if you fire CKD right now you're no better than little brother across the state.
Force him to make changes on staff? For sure.
S&C needs a big shake up, Oline and Dline coaches need upgrading, etc but if you throw out the head man right now then good luck with regularly enjoying 7 and 8 win seasons for the foreseeable future.

 

[BamaInCummingGA]

DELETED

Man, you can be mad all you want. But don't start personal insults like this. I would say you're better than that but clearly you aren't.

 

[crimsonaudio]

PSU & LSU wouldn't be happy with taking a 'butt whooping' like we did yesterday. They expect more as should we.

LSU was dominated by Alabama in Baton Rouge to the tune of 31-0 in 2002 - Saban's third season - but they didn't immediately want CNS fired. He won them the NC the following season.

 

[crimsonaudio]

I would say he inherited a lot more to work with than coach Cignetti did.

And a lot more issues.

 

[75thru79]

DeBoer had talent when he got here. Yes he lost some but there was still plenty left. I know its too late this year to do anything but if this happens next year he needs to go. Personally im not in his corner. I just dont see him working out hereKiffin dod a great . Cignetti built his team like Saban did. Kiffin did a great job building that Ole Miss team

With all due respect, Cignetti built his team via the transfer portal and NIL. Their offensive lineman are all redshirt seniors. That's FIVE years in college football. I don't care how many stars you have, a 23-year old with that many years in college football is going to whip a true freshman 5-star. Indiana's line is almost like an NFL line. We are not winning the transfer portal battle and until we figure that out we are going to lose to these transfer portal all-star teams like Indiana, Texas Tech, Miami.

 

[CoolBreeze]

I personally am not a KD fan. We git lucky in the South Carolina game. DeBoer is responsible for the whole staff. I dont see us getting any better either. Maybe im wrong but this was embarrassing we even made Fox News geez

Got a pretty good recruiting class coming in. I have seen Coach make adjustments this year and am certain he is capable of making more. I think he can get it done.

 

[92tide]

Man, Nobody is happy with taking a beating like that. But if the baby poops you don't throw away the baby. You change it.

wait, what?!??!!

(runs out to the curb before the garbage truck comes by)

 

[81usaf92]

LSU was dominated by Alabama in Baton Rouge to the tune of 31-0 in 2002 - Saban's third season - but they didn't immediately want CNS fired. He won them the NC the following year

He also lost to UAB in his first year. . And lost to a Ron Zook Florida team in BR on the nc year.

 

[saturdaysarebet]

I think PSU and LSU fans right now would take a butt whooping in the Rose Bowl and looking forward to the 26 season.

PSU game Indiana their toughest game of the year. Indiana barely escaped with a W at Penn State.

 

[crimsonaudio]

He also lost to UAB in his first year. . And lost to a Ron Zook Florida team in BR on the nc year.

Unpossible!

 

[tusks_n_raider]

Okay where did the Patriots decline begin? Most of your average fans will say when Tom Brady left. But people in the know, former players, and in the organization have consistently said the year they won their last superbowl because they sold their souls for one last roster that could win it and abandoned the Patriot Way. It hurt their cap and roster for many years and they put a lot of faith that Belichick could do a complete reset on what he started in 2001. He couldn’t. The point is declines aren’t cliffs they are great seasons in which alarming compromises are made that go against an organization’s core beliefs.

Saban’s decline probably started the second Tua hit Smitty to beat Georgia. Because since then our coaching staff year in and year out has been nothing but ace recruiters and horrible developmental guys. Yes we won 1 NC, 4 SECCGs, and 4 playoff games in that time period but we were seeing that we weren’t accustomed to seeing from 08-17. We were seeing 30-40 points consistently put on us by elite offenses, we were seeing coaches in and out of the organization quicker than we could learn their names, we were one of the most highly penalized teams in several years, and we were seeing quality start to drop in fundamentals.

Yes I have no doubt we would almost certainly be better than what we are now under Saban, but there were kinks in the armor that would’ve eventually led to a 3-4 loss season down the line. We weren’t great at developing talent in his last 5-6 years and that is indisputable.

Again apologies to @92tide because I misinterpreted his response to another member.

It was stated than fans are upset that we aren’t getting $70 million coaching.

I read the response to that as ‘well we weren’t getting it with CNS’s final 2-3 years either’

Which now has been clarified (I think) that 92 meant other fans have been stating that and not him.

At any rate I disagree with that premise.

I’m not meaning to say CNS didn’t experience a decline compared to himself at his peak or prime years.

I’m just saying he still produced results that justified his salary… but also even if he didn’t he earned that right too not that it’s the point.

But even these final 2-3 CNS seasons as I stated absolutely smoke this new staff and it’s not even close.

Was our OL and Running game declining compared to our peak? Yes

Was the position coaching not as great as our peak? Yes

Was development and talent scouting not as good as our peak? Possibly and depending on the position yes.

Was our toughness not as great as our absolute peak? Probably not depending on the position.

But all of those areas were still better than what this new staff is doing.

A 62 year old CNS could navigate this new landscape just like Cignetti and others who are young enough and have enough fire to do so.

The 72 year old CNS didn’t feel he could and like I say fair play.

We were still playing at a higher level than now and we were absolutely not getting pantsed on a routine basis like this new staff.

Some might question our preparation under CNS’s final years but it still wasn’t as bad as the no show no adjustment junk we are dealing with now.

CKD has lost 8 games and 4 were by double digits and 3 were by 3 or more TDs

He’s lost to Vanderbilt.

He’s lost to Four teams with 5 or more losses.

This mess is unacceptable and nothing like this was going on with CNS’s decline years.

Really only two ‘bad’ losses on paper were to UGA on a late Pick 6 with our Top 2 WRs out and a 10 point loss to Texas that also had a Pick 6.

Multiple HCs have made quick improvements the last two years and have done it with a tough attitude and physical play with a somewhat respectable running game and balanced offense.

We are trying to play finesse ball in a league of Heavyweight punchers and getting dunked on repeatedly and not adapting at all.

We need a Tough Coach who knows how to play physical Football and can instill a team wide toughness.

 

[81usaf92]

Again apologies to @92tide because I misinterpreted his response to another member.

It was stated than fans are upset that we aren’t getting $70 million coaching.

I read the response to that as ‘well we weren’t getting it with CNS’s final 2-3 years either’

Which now has been clarified (I think) that 92 meant other fans have been stating that and not him.

At any rate I disagree with that premise.

I’m not meaning to say CNS didn’t experience a decline compared to himself at his peak or prime years.

I’m just saying he still produced results that justified his salary… but also even if he didn’t he earned that right too not that it’s the point.

But even these final 2-3 CNS seasons as I stated absolutely smoke this new staff and it’s not even close.

Was our OL and Running game declining compared to our peak? Yes

Was the position coaching not as great as our peak? Yes

Was development and talent scouting not as good as our peak? Possibly and depending on the position yes.

Was our toughness not as great as our absolute peak? Probably not depending on the position.

But all of those areas were still better than what this new staff is doing.

A 62 year old CNS could navigate this new landscape just like Cignetti and others who are young enough and have enough fire to do so.

The 72 year old CNS didn’t feel he could and like I say fair play.

We were still playing at a higher level than now and we were absolutely not getting pantsed on a routine basis like this new staff.

Some might question our preparation under CNS’s final years but it still wasn’t as bad as the no show no adjustment junk we are dealing with now.

CKD has lost 8 games and 4 were by double digits and 3 were by 3 or more TDs

He’s lost to Vanderbilt.

He’s lost to Four teams with 5 or more losses.

This mess is unacceptable and nothing like this was going on with CNS’s decline years.

Really only two ‘bad’ losses on paper were to UGA on a late Pick 6 with our Top 2 WRs out and a 10 point loss to Texas that also had a Pick 6.

Multiple HCs have made quick improvements the last two years and have done it with a tough attitude and physical play with a somewhat respectable running game and balanced offense.

We are trying to play finesse ball in a league of Heavyweight punchers and getting dunked on repeatedly and not adapting at all.

We need a Tough Coach who knows how to play physical Football and can instill a team wide toughness.

In 23 Tommy and Kevin corrected alot of things on the fly and had to deal with more stuff than most of us could imagine.

Kevin Steele also was allowed a lot more leeway than any other Saban DC since 09. Steele more or less did it as a personal favor and under the expectation that it was both a 1 year and done and Saban wasn’t going to ride him like he did everyone else. So expecting better defensive output past 23 might not be as rosy as we think.

Now Tommy might actually improve years 2 and 3 to the point that we might see him as the next great OC.