Former player Mike Johnson overview on Kalen DeBoer and Bama after two years

[Bamabuzzard]

There's nothing new coming out of that interview. He's just repeating same thing we all have heard from different people in the last few months:
Former players. It's been nothing but former players.

No body is saying anything new. I thought we were turning page on this and get ready for spring practice and see what changes they made?

It's a part of the discussion and people are just going to have to be okay with that. It CAN'T NOT be part of the discussion if we want to logically and objectively discuss the upcoming offseason. You can't talk about spring, offseason work, next season, etc., without discussing last year and how it relates to the work that we think is being done or needs to be done for next year. Also, that's all we have until the season starts. There will literally be NOTHING we get from now until camp starts that will provide new information to discuss. Then, when camp starts, it's not like DeBoer or the other coaches give any useful information to discuss. They've mastered the word salad press conferences. They're about as useless as tits on a boar hog. I've liked the additions of the OL'men we've gotten in the portable. It appears the staff fully recognized the OL performance needed to be fixed. Now that we've gotten the guys in here what are they going to do to fix the clown show we saw last season from the OL? Do fans think it was a player problem, coaching problem, scheme problem or some of all of it? What do the coaches think the problems were? If they don't get rid of any coaches they must obviously think it was just a player problem. Do you agree or disagree with that? Those types of things are on the table to be discussed and will be discussed until we see the next regular season game in September.

It's what I love about this site. It's not a rah-rah, let's not talk about it unless it's unicorns and pop rocks type of site. Things good, bad and indifferent get discussed. When we're playing good, the discussions are all relatively positive. When we're playing bad the discussions are going to be negative. That's a normal course of how discussions work. Relax, it's all going to be okay.

 

[CoolBreeze]

I love former players staying close to the program and offering their assessment. I mean, these guys have all the respect in the world and the fact that they care about the program is really heart warming. I am not sure Coach is listening to all of this but I guarantee that the sentiment is echoing throughout the fanbase when former players of character offer their 2 cents. It gets back to him. So DeBoer knows how to win due to his record which suggests he knows how to adapt. This is year 3. He needs to adapt or suffer the consequences. That said, this is a new era and not even I know whether we can compete in this college football environment being powered by big money boosters and private equity.

 

[editder]

Link

Fast forward to the 52:00 minute mark for his take.

I like that he made the point that the early CNS teams turned things around through physicality BEFORE we became stacked with great recruiting classes. He did it with the players he had rather than waiting until he had perfect players.

Consider Brandon Fanney, for example. He was in the two-deep rotation at OLB in 2007 and a starter in 2008. He left the program before 2009 as a fifth year senior. I believe he had gotten himself in the doghouse, but he was also being passed up in the depth chart by better young players. Point is that he, and a lot of other not-so-talented holdovers from the Shula years, was part of a hard nosed, good team in 2008.

 

[JustNeedMe81]

It's a part of the discussion and people are just going to have to be okay with that. It CAN'T NOT be part of the discussion if we want to logically and objectively discuss the upcoming offseason. You can't talk about spring, offseason work, next season, etc., without discussing last year and how it relates to the work that we think is being done or needs to be done for next year. Also, that's all we have until the season starts. There will literally be NOTHING we get from now until camp starts that will provide new information to discuss. Then, when camp starts, it's not like DeBoer or the other coaches give any useful information to discuss. They've mastered the word salad press conferences. They're about as useless as tits on a boar hog. I've liked the additions of the OL'men we've gotten in the portable. It appears the staff fully recognized the OL performance needed to be fixed. Now that we've gotten the guys in here what are they going to do to fix the clown show we saw last season from the OL? Do fans think it was a player problem, coaching problem, scheme problem or some of all of it? What do the coaches think the problems were? If they don't get rid of any coaches they must obviously think it was just a player problem. Do you agree or disagree with that? Those types of things are on the table to be discussed and will be discussed until we see the next regular season game in September.

It's what I love about this site. It's not a rah-rah, let's not talk about it unless it's unicorns and pop rocks type of site. Things good, bad and indifferent get discussed. When we're playing good, the discussions are all relatively positive. When we're playing bad the discussions are going to be negative. That's a normal course of how discussions work. Relax, it's all going to be okay.

What I said still stand. I don't see anything wrong with you are saying and I see your point.

But we haven't seen the spring practices, summer reports and fall camp to say, "Things are much better" or " issues is still there. "

Im not calling you out. I'm not arguing with you. Trust me I get your perspective and I completely understand where you're coming from, but you have been beating dead horse on coaching changes, OL and CKD for a while nonstop. I don't think I've seen you saying anything really positive from what I can see.

I've been saying for weeks.... Be patient with changes. Let them work it out. I'm antsy about same things you are but I've learned from my life experience to not overreact and let things play out...

 

[tidefan39817]

Yep, DeBoer is going to have to evolve. We are seeing things shifting back to physical pro style football.

This finesse stuff and relying totally on the QB will not get you to the top. It'll win games but it will not win championships.

If DeBoer is serious.......he's going to have to get his teams more physical and less finesse.

So, what you are saying is that "The same things win that always won. you just have a bunch of different excuses when you lose." Coach Bryant

 

[KrAzY3]

What I said still stand. I don't see anything wrong with you are saying and I see your point.

But we haven't seen the spring practices, summer reports and fall camp to say, "Things are much better" or " issues is still there. "

Im not calling you out. I'm not arguing with you. Trust me I get your perspective and I completely understand where you're coming from, but you have been beating dead horse on coaching changes, OL and CKD for a while nonstop. I don't think I've seen you saying anything really positive from what I can see.

I've been saying for weeks.... Be patient with changes. Let them work it out. I'm antsy about same things you are but I've learned from my life experience to not overreact and let things play out...

I know you're not responding to me specifically, but you are responding to similar sentiment. Here's where I'm at though. Anyone who is familiar with me probably know I'm "critical". I point out flaws and potential problems and the like. It isn't that I'm never supportive of coaches or players, I'll go down with the ship if I truly believe in them, but I do tend to point out issues more than I celebrate success.

The problem is when I was basically saying look things have to change, and there needs to be some changes with coaches, you were pretty quick to assure me to just be patient and they will happen. It sounded like you had reason to believe beyond the rational that it's screwed up so clearly will be fixed.

Now though, you're talking about spring practices, summer reports, and fall camp (mostly glowing last year by the way, then they got manhandled by FSU). That's not coaching changes! If they make it that far without addressing the core issues, we're basically moved on to window dressing. It's like an alcoholic skipping out on rehab but promising they'll stop drinking.

Either this is a big priority and they make meaningful changes, or we're getting Washington 2.0. If you still think the coaching changes are coming, great, I hope they are. If not though, there's no reason to believe they sincerely want to change or are even capable. This is a systemic issue.

 

[CB4]

Question: is there a place on EBay where I can sell my unicorns, pixie dust, and pop rocks at a discount?

 

[RollTide_HTTR]

It's pretty clear this is a big year for DeBoer. The offense has to look better or he may be in trouble regardless of our record. We can't be carried by our defense when we have an offensive minded HC. He gets a QB he handpicked this year in either Russell or Mack, no more Saban holdover at the most important position. And we've now cleared out our OL room and will basically have an entirely new OL from players he has recruited.

It's especially big when you have guys like Curt Cignetti turning around a school like Indiana year 1. I don't expect a National Title but I need to see an improved offense and another playoff birth, hopefully one where we aren't on the bubble again. The schedule we have is pretty favorable. We have a slow start until the game 6 vs UGA (and we better be 5-0 going into that game). He probably needs to go 2-2 vs UGA, Tennessee, A&M and LSU. If we have more than 2 regular season losses he may be in trouble.

 

[JustNeedMe81]

I know you're not responding to me specifically, but you are responding to similar sentiment. Here's where I'm at though. Anyone who is familiar with me probably know I'm "critical". I point out flaws and potential problems and the like. It isn't that I'm never supportive of coaches or players, I'll go down with the ship if I truly believe in them, but I do tend to point out issues more than I celebrate success.

The problem is when I was basically saying look things have to change, and there needs to be some changes with coaches, you were pretty quick to assure me to just be patient and they will happen. It sounded like you had reason to believe beyond the rational that it's screwed up so clearly will be fixed.

Now though, you're talking about spring practices, summer reports, and fall camp (mostly glowing last year by the way, then they got manhandled by FSU). That's not coaching changes! If they make it that far without addressing the core issues, we're basically moved on to window dressing. It's like an alcoholic skipping out on rehab but promising they'll stop drinking.

Either this is a big priority and they make meaningful changes, or we're getting Washington 2.0. If you still think the coaching changes are coming, great, I hope they are. If not though, there's no reason to believe they sincerely want to change or are even capable. This is a systemic issue.

To be fair.... I'm pretty sure what we heard last spring and fall.. two different things. One played role in both. Fall camp was filled with injuries.

My basic point was if anyone going to be pessimistic about the coaching changes and OL....and think nothing will change ... What good would it do to continue to beat on same topic, discussing same thing, hearing same opinions from same people over and over.

What if there is a coaching changes? Will that change some of the posters attitude ? What if spring camp was real good? Will it change the tone within the posters? Fall camp was successful. Same question. Bama win 5 games in a row to start season .. will it change?

There will always be those type of people who's never gonna be happy no matter what CKD does with his offense and defense as a whole because they're will always measure that to coach Saban's success.

If CKD is let go.. then who's the better coach? Let me warn everyone this... Be careful of what you wish for.... We will end up in same situation as Auburn as far as their issues with coaches.

CKD got all of his guys in for this season. Let's see what happens with that. That's all I'm saying though. Nobody is right or wrong in this case. It's just matter of how we see things.

 

[KrAzY3]

What if there is a coaching changes? Will that change some of the posters attitude ? What if spring camp was real good? Will it change the tone within the posters? Fall camp was successful. Same question. Bama win 5 games in a row to start season .. will it change?

.....If CKD is let go.. then who's the better coach? Let me warn everyone this... Be careful of what you wish for.... We will end up in same situation as Auburn as far as their issues with coaches.

I think if there are coaching changes this actually buys him more time.

I'd give an example of a more finesse style fight moving up a weight class. If he got his butt kicked by a bigger, stronger, fighter who physically dominated him, he could do one of two things. He could go well I should have just dodged him a few more times and I could have won. Or he goes, alright I need to bulk up, add some strength and next time I fight someone like that I'm not going to be manhandled. Well I guess the third would be I need to lose even more weight, I'm not finesse enough but that would be insane, right?

There are growing pains if you do try to change. So if you are trying to adjust, but it just takes some time people will be more patient. If you don't look like you are trying to change at all? If the fighter is like, it was closer than it looked, I just can't ever let the other guy hit me, alright sure buddy, worked great last time you tried didn't it?

I think some of us are just looking for that meaningful attempt, proof that he is willing to adapt. As far as firing him, I haven't really talked about that, and I would agree finding a good replacement and the costs and all that are a tough proposition. However, if he's not going to change at all then something else will need to.

As far as winning 5 games in a row and that sort of a thing. After the South Carolina game I was here saying the running game was bad (after nearly a year of explaining why I thought it would be bad) and it would cost Alabama. At that point I got a few dismissive comments, hey it's working, times have changed you don't need to run the ball, etc...

Since then Alabama was 3-3 against FBS opponents for a combined score of 112-132. It wasn't championship caliber football, even when they were winning. Mind you, that was a tough schedule, but Alabama got blown out 3 times, and won 4 games by a single score. They were closer to being downright mediocre than winning a championship.

I hope, I really really really hope there is change. But I think you can at least understand why I'm looking at it this way. It's not because I don't want DeBoer to succeed, it's not because I'm not hopeful, I always get dragged back in and hope, but because I logically know I need to have more than just hope to believe in.

 

[Jack Bourbon]

What if there is a coaching changes? Will that change some of the posters attitude ? What if spring camp was real good? Will it change the tone within the posters? Fall camp was successful. Same question. Bama win 5 games in a row to start season .. will it change?

There will always be those type of people who's never gonna be happy no matter what CKD does with his offense and defense as a whole because they're will always measure that to coach Saban's success.

I think most people want to see toughness, discipline, and physical football. Not relying on finesse because finesse cant be relied upon consistently. Run the ball decently, stop the run decently. Be sound at the point of attack. I think most ppl here, and former players as well, understand that the saban stacked personnel days are over, and are willing to accept losses here and there, and that championship runs will he much rarer. Ie we get that there’s not another saban era forthcoming.

But it’s also ok to expect improvement. Particularly from a guy making $10M a year.

The board is here to pick apart the issues, voice concerns, analyze, etc, because it’s interesting to football fans

 

[jashleyren2]

Physical, tough play like Indiana used this year, won this year. Great.

Is that how Ohio State won last year? They didn't have a potent passing attack which also utilized a mobile QB?

Is that how Michigan won in 2023? Besides the obvious, illegal practices they employed to get to their title?

How about UGA in 2021 and 2022? How did they win?

My point is, it's still going to come down to getting the right guys to execute, and consistently. Cignetti captured that lightning in a bottle this year, building off of what he did last year. Does anyone expect Bloomington to become the recruiting hotbed of college football? I don't. I DO expect that they enjoy enough bankroll to buy all the players that Ohio State and Michigan can't buy. Or even Texas, for that matter.

Mike Johnson: the game has changed. The fundamental need to get the right guys, and have them executing at a high level, consistently, has not changed. But all of that begins in a very different place than it did when you played college football. It's not starting with 17-18 year olds who develop over 3-4 seasons anymore. Now, you buy the team that wins. See, the NFL, NBA, and MLB.

 

[Jack Bourbon]

Physical, tough play like Indiana used this year, won this year. Great.

Is that how Ohio State won last year? They didn't have a potent passing attack which also utilized a mobile QB?

Is that how Michigan won in 2023? Besides the obvious, illegal practices they employed to get to their title?

How about UGA in 2021 and 2022? How did they win?

My point is, it's still going to come down to getting the right guys to execute, and consistently. Cignetti captured that lightning in a bottle this year, building off of what he did last year. Does anyone expect Bloomington to become the recruiting hotbed of college football? I don't. I DO expect that they enjoy enough bankroll to buy all the players that Ohio State and Michigan can't buy. Or even Texas, for that matter.

Mike Johnson: the game has changed. The fundamental need to get the right guys, and have them executing at a high level, consistently, has not changed. But all of that begins in a very different place than it did when you played college football. It's not starting with 17-18 year olds who develop over 3-4 seasons anymore. Now, you buy the team that wins. See, the NFL, NBA, and MLB.

Id argue that all of those teams, osu, Michigan, uga, won playing stout at the point of attack. Not necessarily barry alvarez wisconsin rushing method, but yes tough and physical and solid run game.

 

[KrAzY3]

Id argue that all of those teams, osu, Michigan, uga, won playing stout at the point of attack. Not necessarily barry alvarez wisconsin rushing method, but yes tough and physical and solid run game.

Yeah those were all physical teams with strong lines and good running attacks. Ohio State's championship team had two 1,000 yard rushers! Michigan famously barely passed sometimes and they ran all over Washington (303 vs 46 rushing yards).

I'm a stats guy so I naturally check them, but not sure how some people get their ideas about this stuff...

 

[CB4]

I hope, I really really really hope there is change. But I think you can at least understand why I'm looking at it this way. It's not because I don't want DeBoer to succeed, it's not because I'm not hopeful, I always get dragged back in and hope, but because I logically know I need to have more than just hope to believe in.

I believe the position by you and others here (myself included) does not come a position of cynicism. It is well reasoned and quite objective. Let’s face the fact that the last two years have given many us significant concerns about the direction of the program. Once again, let me restate this: the fact of 8 losses over past two years isn’t as troubling to many as it was the WAY we performed in some of those losses. Those are legitimate concerns. Are there reasons for hope going into 2026? Yes without question. Solid high school recruiting the past years is one area. However, does what we’ve seen the past two years give many us a tremendous amount of confidence we have the correct people in place to develop them? And for me, that is a huge question.

There is nothing you or others have posted here that I see as “beating a dead horse”. It is a discussion board. And we have great mods here that, if someone is out of line or “over the top”, will very quickly and succinctly put them back in line. If people just come here to “agree to agree”, it isn’t a discussion board. It becomes an echo chamber.

I personally appreciate your posts. And while I’m not always in lockstep with your opinions or positions, it does offer a different perspective for consideration.

Just because we are fans doesn’t mean we can’t at times divorce ourselves from our sometimes overt fandom and be objective (but fair) in terms of concerns and criticism of the status of the program. I mean we DO have a good, bad and ugly post game thread, right? Should we do a “Good” thread and ignore the rest?

 

[Oregon Tide]

It's pretty clear this is a big year for DeBoer. The offense has to look better or he may be in trouble regardless of our record. We can't be carried by our defense when we have an offensive minded HC. He gets a QB he handpicked this year in either Russell or Mack, no more Saban holdover at the most important position. And we've now cleared out our OL room and will basically have an entirely new OL from players he has recruited.

Well said and this is where the reason for concern are stemming. Would anyone have thought we would be carried by the defense two years in a row when DeBoer came in? Every article was about offense, offense, offense and that has yet to materialize in a consistent way - not a good look.

We can only compare Years 1 and 2 for DeBoer but when you see the same issues around physicality, consistency, lack of preparation and failure to adjust YoY, then couple that with the lack of an explosive offense, the trepidation going into Year 3 is very real.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

What I said still stand. I don't see anything wrong with you are saying and I see your point.

But we haven't seen the spring practices, summer reports and fall camp to say, "Things are much better" or " issues is still there. "

Im not calling you out. I'm not arguing with you. Trust me I get your perspective and I completely understand where you're coming from, but you have been beating dead horse on coaching changes, OL and CKD for a while nonstop. I don't think I've seen you saying anything really positive from what I can see.

I've been saying for weeks.... Be patient with changes. Let them work it out. I'm antsy about same things you are but I've learned from my life experience to not overreact and let things play out...

I've made more than several comments about how I like what they've done with the OL in the transfer portal. I made comments about how I liked the big DL'man that we got from Oregon in the portal. I made positive comments about the WR from NC State we got in the portal. I think you're fixating on what you want to fixate on and not seeing other things. For some reason the OL coaching change strikes a nerve with you, even though A TON of Bama fans across the fan base (not just on Tidefans) are discussing it. So it apparently is a hot topic and hot topics, whether negative or positive, are going to be talked about a lot. But for some reason that one bothers you so much that you've gone around the board "correcting" anyone who brings it up. No big deal, we're cool. I have no issue with you. You're just going to have to understand that with a message board with as many members as Tidefans, people are going to talk about things that have already been talked about and people are going to talk about things that you're not interested in talking about. So you have to find your circle of conversations you're interested in and have them. Not go around telling other people what they need to stop talking about. We all repeat ourselves. You do realize you repeat yourself all the time? You fixate on topics and beat a dead horse into glue just like anyone else.

But either way, we're good man. The best thing is to find your niche of conversations on the board and discuss them. If a conversation or comment isn't for you, just scroll right by it. That tends to allow people to discuss what they want with others who want to discuss that same topic.

 

[KrAzY3]

There's always going to be limitations of discussing things on such an impersonal format as a message board. I can come off as cold and impersonal, because I become fixated on the subject and I kind of forget the fact that I might be talking to someone that's always been polite and friendly towards me and failing to display the same deference.

I just try to understand that no matter where someone falls in an issue, that they are likely being genuine and honest and it's not just alright if we don't see eye to eye, but the entire point of discussions.

To get back more directly on topic, I think in some ways 2019 LSU kind of "broke" how people saw things in terms of what it takes to win a championship. If you go back from there you'd need to go back nearly 20 years to find a team without a strong running game winning a championship. If you go forward, you also won't see any team like that either. Yet there sits 2019 LSU with the 60th ranked running offense and some people kind of held that up as proof of the game changing and not really needing a running game.

Two things people might have overlooked.

A: That team had Joe Burrow throwing to Justin Jefferson and Ja'Marr Chase. That's a QB with HOF potential throwing to two guys on track to make the Hall of Fame. So sure, if you have those 3 guys and they're healthy (11 Pro Bowls between them), may be you don't have to run.

B: The team still could run though. They averaged 4.9 per rush, that's not exactly bad.

They were the exception though, but the exception every pass happy offensive mind needed I guess to justify what they were doing. So to anyone out there, if you can get the reincarnation of those three disregard everything I said, go for it, be pass happy.

 

[JDCrimson]

I'm seeing a shift back to power football in the teams that have been successful the last five years. What do UGA (21/22), Michigan '23, Ohio St '24 and Indiana '25 have in common? All four ran their offense out of a power football base, supplemented with very good, physical defenses. If we're not moving closer toward that model, we're not winning a NC anytime soon. The style offense we currently run is too easy to stifle for physical style defenses. They push our OL around, smother our running game and don't give our QB hardly any time to throw the ball. Not a great recipe for championship football.

That's what happened to DeBoer's UW team in the national title game against Michigan. DeBoer's offense (offensive line) couldn't physically hold up against the physicality of the Michigan defense. We've seen the same signs here for two years.

There are a bunch of dudes that if you had to fight them in a phone booth they would be downright intimidating. But if in the open they are vulnerable. I just believe there more guys who cant play in space than there are guys who can. And now that NIL has spread the talent, you cant put enough space players on your team to make space play as effective. Then when you play in close quarters the space players get mauled.

 

[tusks_n_raider]

There's always going to be limitations of discussing things on such an impersonal format as a message board. I can come off as cold and impersonal, because I become fixated on the subject and I kind of forget the fact that I might be talking to someone that's always been polite and friendly towards me and failing to display the same deference.

I just try to understand that no matter where someone falls in an issue, that they are likely being genuine and honest and it's not just alright if we don't see eye to eye, but the entire point of discussions.

To get back more directly on topic, I think in some ways 2019 LSU kind of "broke" how people saw things in terms of what it takes to win a championship. If you go back from there you'd need to go back nearly 20 years to find a team without a strong running game winning a championship. If you go forward, you also won't see any team like that either. Yet there sits 2019 LSU with the 60th ranked running offense and some people kind of held that up as proof of the game changing and not really needing a running game.

Two things people might have overlooked.

A: That team had Joe Burrow throwing to Justin Jefferson and Ja'Marr Chase. That's a QB with HOF potential throwing to two guys on track to make the Hall of Fame. So sure, if you have those 3 guys and they're healthy (11 Pro Bowls between them), may be you don't have to run.

B: The team still could run though. They averaged 4.9 per rush, that's not exactly bad.

They were the exception though, but the exception every pass happy offensive mind needed I guess to justify what they were doing. So to anyone out there, if you can get the reincarnation of those three disregard everything I said, go for it, be pass happy.

Yeah they for sure could still run the ball.

Edwards-Helaire ran for 1,400+ yards and 16 TDs at 6.6 YPC

Every other RB who got a respectable amount of touches averaged from 4.6 to 5.0 YPC

Burrow ran for over 300 yards too at 3.2 YPC though tbf that has to include negative yards from sacks because he was very effective as a runner.

But yes even as great as that Offense was it still wasn’t an All or Nothing finesse attack.