Yes, he is right on track, right on track for mediocrity. The writing is on the wall. Look what Pearl did in his 4th year. Look what Barnes is doing. Look what Howland is doing. Hell, look what Davis is doing in his first season. If you are happy with struggling to have a winning record every year and perhaps getting to the NCAA tournament once every five or six years, Avery is your man. But, like you said, the SEC is much tougher now. So, we need a coach that can compete. Our coach does not hold his players accountable for effort. You mention playing his son too much this past Saturday like it was a one-time thing. He routinely plays his son too much. Junior should play five minutes a game tops. Where is the improvement from year one to year four?
I now feel the exact same way I did three years before Gottfried was removed.
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First, you've been a member since August but have only posted in this thread that you started? That's suspect.
Second, which coach inherited a better situation - Davis or Avery? You know the answer.
Third, you ask for improvement from year one to year four and try to bring up the conference being tougher. The fact Avery has 12 wins against ranked opponents shows some improvement. The average RPI under Grant was 79.8. Through this morning, the average RPI of Avery's tenure is 62.3. RealTimeRPI ranks Alabama's SOS #33 in the nation.
Do you know what Alabama's SOS schedule has been under Avery?
2016 - 40
2017 - 72
2018 - 12
If you think things are staying the same as they were under Grant and the later Gottfriend years, what do you think those teams would be doing against the current SEC? And be sure to consider Grant wouldn't currently be getting the talent Avery is getting.
Listen, I get there are problems and reason for frustration. There have been plenty of times I've doubted the way things are going. But if you want to make an argument about it, at least make an informed one.
I have never said Avery isn't a better coach than Grant or Gottfried. I hated Gottfried. But, I just think in year four we should be showing better improvement. Oh, and my number of posts is totally irrelevant. I have been a huge basketball fan since 1981. Maybe that is part of my issue. I saw it when things were significantly better. Again, look at the product on the floor. Does he hold his players accountable for effort? Does he allow carelessness with the basketball? Routinely. What is our strategy on defense? What is our strategy on offense? What are we known for? You bring up Davis. Great, he inherited a better situation. What about Pearl? Auburn was consistently the worst program in the SEC for thirty years. SOS is great. I commend him for creating difficult schedules. He is better against top competition than Grant. Big deal. Grant is not and should not be the standard. What about the other losses? What about blowing a twenty point lead to freaking Georgia State? You can get all the talent you want, if you do not develop it, what good is it? Is Herb Jones better today than last year? Absolutely not. He has regressed offensively. Is Petty better? What about Ingram? LOL! Reese appears to have improved some so has Hall when we bother to get him involved in the offense. Smith showed promise at the end of last season, where is he this year?
Pearl had the added benefit of having a new facility. Brand new. Barnes also has better facilities than we do. Tn. recently built a new practice facility. Howland is in his fourth year. He made the NIT last year which was year 3. Avery made it to the tournament year 3 and won a game. They are both in year 4 so lets wait a few weeks before crowning Howland. Davis has a Brand new Arena. You seeing a pattern here. Much like Oregon in football their turn around started when Phil Knight started pouring money in to their facilities. Just ask yourself this and be honest. Would you trade Howlands record for Avery's? Howland is a good coach but if you are looking at resumes from day one till today Avery's is just flat out better against a harder out of conference schedule to boot.
Also if he keeps this up at a minimum we are looking at the tournament every 3 years. :wink: on TideFans.com
If you are happy with 17-20 wins per year, max. Enjoy. Stop making excuses. Yes, a new arena would be great. Does that magically make a coach coach better? Does that magically make a coach hold his players accountable? Does that magically make a coach demand players take care of the ball? We want to commend Avery for the great recruiting, but here you are saying he is handcuffed bc of facilities. Which is it? Nobody is answering my questions. Where would you rank Avery as a bball coach in the SEC right now? 1-5, 6-10, or 11-14? If it is in the 11-14 category, a change is needed. 6-10, a change should be considered if he is on the lower side. Which coaches would you rank below Avery right now?
I didn't say you said they were better. You said this is continuing the mediocrity of Alabama basketball. I simply pointed out Avery's record is against better competition, so imagine how they would do. If Avery's continuing the mediocrity they had against weaker competition but doing it against better competition, logic says they would be worse.
There's a reason Alabama went dancing last year at 19-15 and Anthony Grant didn't in 2011 after winning 21 games.
Missing the point. You joined months ago and decided to start a negative thread after two losses and haven't posted anything else? Didn't care to post about the wins over Arizona or Kentucky?
This is more of what I'm talking about in regards to an argument. Those questions are worth discussing and asking because they are legitimate concerns.
He is certainly with out question in the top 8 just based on us getting 8 teams in the dance last year. We got past the first round which probably puts him in that top 5 category. Only two of our teams made it to the sweet 16 Texas A&M and Kentucky. You were quick to point out how Howland is a better coach but when I asked you which coach's resume is better, crickets. My point about the arena is he is doing this with sub-par facilities. Our facilities are going to improve. The University has started to show a commitment to Basketball. This team has some flaws no doubt. Many of them can be fixed. He lost one game in SEC play that he should have won. The sky is not falling. It is the height of naivety to think that any coach we bring in won't have some hiccups. If you were the AD would you fire Avery now? Fire a coach who just went to the second round of the dance in his 3rd year before getting to the heart of SEC play in his 4th year. That terrible Ga State team you mentioned will be in the dance again this year. We should have won the game but they are a good team. I think time will show that A&M is a better team than they showed early.
:biggrin:LOL! Top 5? I would not fire him now, I would be putting names together and making back channel contacts to gauge interest. If you think Avery is a better coach than Howland, then there really isn't much to say. He only took Pitt to two Sweet 16s and UCLA to three straight Final Fours. Again, answer some of my questions. What is our offensive strategy? What is our identity? What are we trying to do defensively? Does our coach hold players accountable for effort? For carelessness? The victories in the SEC tourney last year and the first round of the NCAA were great, but let's not kid ourselves, we limped into the tournament by the skin of our teeth. I just want better for our program and think we could do much better. 18 wins, 19 wins and 20 wins with losing conference records in two of the three seasons thus far, likely three of four. We were once easily the second best basketball program in the conference. It is long past time we start demanding more.
If you are not advocation to fire him now than I am not sure what we disagree on. Just for clarity what is your ranking of SEC coaches?
Based on coaching ability I would have the following clearly ahead of Avery: Cal, White, Barnes, Howland, Pearl, Drew, Martin, and Kennedy. These coaches would be close - Mike Anderson, Cuanzo Martin, and Will Wade (I am probably being generous to Avery here). Too soon to be evaluated: Crean and Davis (although Davis is off to a wonderful start). I haven't given it much thought as far as actually ranking them 1-14, but these are the three buckets I would place the coaches in. Again, I think I have been generous to Avery in giving him the benefit of the doubt equaling him with Wade, Martin and Anderson.
Slow your roll, Fred. Goodness.
Until this season has passed there isn't much use in calling for anyone to be fired.
While Alabama basketball can be insanely frustrating, if you can't see improvement from year one I question your ability to see.
I'm with RTR91 regarding the nature of your posts. It's odd you come out of nowhere blasting the board about firing Avery and hiring Holberg.
I would love to see a more firm commitment from Alabama toward basketball. I know they are planning upgrades, but something should have been done 20 years or more ago.
Traditionally, until the SEC expanded Alabama was #2 behind KY then began to fall further and further behind. There is some catching up to do.
And while I don't subscribe to endless patience, building up a program that had fallen as far as Alabama had fallen and doing it the right way takes time.
How about we wait and see how the season plays out and go from there?
Fair enough. But, I have to say, # of posts is irrelevant. I have been an avid basketball fan since 1981. I watched Alabama beat UCLA the week Coach Bryant died. I watched them beat Patrick Ewing and Georgetown. I watched them beat UK in Lexington in the SEC tournament. I watched Alabama turn the SEC tournament into the Wimp Sanderson Invitational throughout the 1980s. I watched Alabama turn into one of those programs nobody, including the blue bloods, wanted to see in the NCAA tournament. Just ask Bobby Knight. Ask the 1982 UNC national champs. Have there been improvements since Avery took over? Yes. But, there are also fundamental flaws I have yet to see corrected. I would love to be 100% wrong. I just do not see how we get to the next level with the coaching we get, especially when you factor in how difficult the SEC is. It is as challenging as it was during the Hobbs era.
# of posts is not irrelevant to me when someone comes out of the gate calling for the HC to be fired. You keep saying that as if it's true for this board when it isn't. May not matter to you, but it matters to me because I don't know you and you walk in loud and boisterous. When that happens I raise an eyebrow. Maybe you are right, maybe you are wrong (on the coach and the solution); but you might consider spending more time building trust and rapport with your audience next time. Those things are not irrelevant to a persuasive argument.
Wimp walked into a great situation when CM Newton left. It took CM Newton 4 years to turn the Tide and about 6 just to make the tourney. Yes, the tourney was different then, but Riley had left a dumpster fire and it took time to turn around. Wimp benefitted from over a decade of CMN having Alabama on the right track and even with a host of future NBA players only managed to get as far as the Sweet 16. Ever. That seems to have been his ceiling. I haven't seen evidence yet that CAJ has hit a ceiling. We shall see.
Considering we have only played the second weekend of the NCAA tournament once since Wimp resigned, I would welcome with open arms a Sweet 16 ceiling. I am so sorry I didn't pump fake sunshine before posting what I truly feel. Funny thing though, nobody has addressed my questions. So I will ask again. Does Avery hold his players accountable for effort? Does he hold his players accountable for carelessness? What is our defensive strategy? What is our offensive strategy? It may simply be on-ball screen at the top of the key. That may be it. What is our identity? We are in year four and do not know the answers to those questions. Why is that? Why has it taken Avery so long to figure out what he wants to do?
There is a difference between sunshine pumping and building rapport, your hyperbole aside. If you can't see the difference between discussing the problems and calling for the HC to be fired and equate that to fake sunshine pumping then you have a bit to learn yourself. You are doing yourself no favors in the earning trust and respect department with this nonsense.
Whatever. Continue to ignore the questions. Why won't you address them? Those are valid questions that continue to be unanswered in year four. How long should a coach be given to demonstrate some of this?
my own opinion is that this team (2018-2019) would beat any of Coach Grant's teams that I can remember, even the one that went undefeated at home including the NIT win over Stanford. That tells me that Coach Johnson is a better recruiter and has them playing fairly well. You don't have a top fifty rpi without playing pretty well, and though the wins are going to be tougher to come by, I would imagine there are 250 other schools playing right now that wish they had our rpi.
The deal is that the league is much tougher now. The SEC hiring this basketball czar from the Big East has paid dividends in the quality of coaches, players, venues, etc. The SEC understands now that men's hoops can make big money, and has taken steps to get a big piece of that pie. Avery has had to learn to coach college players at the same time this improvement has taken place, and that can't have been that easy. Having Pelphrey there has no doubt helped. So it is really hard to tell if CAJ is the guy to take us to a higher level, or if he already HAS taken us there. Right?
Think about it and try to be fair when doing so.
rtr
The deal is that the league is much tougher now. The SEC hiring this basketball czar from the Big East has paid dividends in the quality of coaches, players, venues, etc. The SEC understands now that men's hoops can make big money, and has taken steps to get a big piece of that pie. Avery has had to learn to coach college players at the same time this improvement has taken place, and that can't have been that easy. Having Pelphrey there has no doubt helped. So it is really hard to tell if CAJ is the guy to take us to a higher level, or if he already HAS taken us there. Right?
Think about it and try to be fair when doing so.
rtr
Considering none of us are in practice or in team meetings, hard to answer these two. But since there's no concrete answer, you're right, correct?
This is the first year under Avery the defense has been an issue. You honestly can't argue otherwise.
Who says it has? If anything, I would say this is the first year there's not a dominant player to run the offense through. In his first year, the offense went through Levi. Second year was Retin. Last year was Sexton. This year? Kira? Petty? Hall? Mack? To me, the offense is better without the obvious guy for the defense to stifle.
Want to address something you asked yesterday about the players.
Are you talking about the Herbert Jones that is shooting 42.7% this year compared to 40.8% last year and is up to 7.1 points per game after scoring 4.2 last year? Or are you talking about the one that is averaging 4.4 rebounds a game this year (3.5 last) and 2.3 assists a game (1.4 last)?
If anything, Herbert's defense has weakened because he's getting called for more fouls this year.
Do you honestly not see improvement in Petty's game? He's still not great handling the ball, but he's better than he was last year.
Who do you expect Galin to play over this year since Mack is in the lineup? He averages 13.7 minutes a game, which is a minute more than he averaged last year. Between Mack and Riley playing and Reese's minutes increasing, Galin's not going to get into the rotation drastically more this year.
BTW, you want some crow for your dogging of AJ in this thread after last night?
Good post. I have no doubt Grant would be 8-10/7-11 yearly in the current state of the SEC.
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