Kirby Smart's Success Leading to Further Attrition

TheBeasKnees

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EDIT: This main point of this post is not about Kirby Smart, but rather about the coaching turnover Bama seems to have yearly now and about how Saban will approach that.

I think it's pretty obvious that what Kirby has built in Athens is/will be a thorn in Saban's side for years to come. But I think his success has also hurt Saban in a less obvious way and it was evident in the national championship game.

Saban will have to replace his Offensive Coordinator for the fourth season in a row (Lane Kiffin, Brian Daboll, and now Mike Locksley), and has had to replace Defensive Coordinators for three of the last four years going into this season (Kirby Smart, Jeremy Pruitt, and Tosh Lupoi). And every time a coordinator leaves a substantial amount of their staff usually leaves with them.

Out of the names listed above, Kirby Smart's loss had the biggest impact because of the amount of experience he had with the program and because of how much of the defensive staff he took with him. But Kirby's success at UGA (IMO) continues to hurt Bama now even more than his original departure. It seems like the coaching attrition Saban has had to deal with over the years has drastically accelerated in the past three years directly coinciding with Kirby Smart's success at UGA.

QUESTION: Will Saban attempt to make any cultural changes around the program to promote the retention of staff after the outcome of this national championship game? Or do you think that Saban will stick to his business-like approach to coaches and just accept the coaching turnover each year?
 
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bamaga

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I don’t see a correlation. Kirby’s success and Nick losing coaches have nothing to do with one another. If you see something, perhaps you should explain further. And I dare say Pruitt was a bigger loss than Smart! And LUPOI has not been replaced, not that I am aware of, anyway.
 
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CrimsonForce

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Actually, UT bungling their head coaching search probably cost us the NC this year. Had UT hired Schiano, or one of the ten coaches before/after him, Pruitt would have most likely stayed on board with us one more year. Basically a guarantee that the defense would've improved more over the season and played better against Clemson. So yea, UT's inept athletic department really hurt our chances this past season..
 

81usaf92

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I think it's pretty obvious that what Kirby has built in Athens is/will be a thorn in Saban's side for years to come. But I think his success has also hurt Saban in a less obvious way and it was evident in the national championship game.

Saban will have to replace his Offensive Coordinator for the fourth season in a row (Lane Kiffin, Brian Daboll, and now Mike Locksley), and has had to replace Defensive Coordinators for three of the last four years going into this season (Kirby Smart, Jeremy Pruitt, and Tosh Lupoi). And every time a coordinator leaves a substantial amount of their staff usually leaves with them.

Out of the names listed above, Kirby Smart's loss had the biggest impact because of the amount of experience he had with the program and because of how much of the defensive staff he took with him. But Kirby's success at UGA (IMO) continues to hurt Bama now even more than his original departure. It seems like the coaching attrition Saban has had to deal with over the years has drastically accelerated in the past three years directly coinciding with Kirby Smart's success at UGA.

My question is, will Saban attempt to make any cultural changes around the program to promote the retention of staff after the outcome of this national championship game? Or do you think that Saban will stick to his business-like approach to coaches and just accept the coaching turnover each year?
Kirby's defense was doing us no favors from 2013-2015. I think we may have held on to Kirby a year or two too long. Probably the biggest departure from the defense in the past few years is actually Pruitt. Its kinda odd that from 2013-2015 Kirby's defenses were lacking but the two years after they were some of the strongest. In otherwords its kinda funny that we started to regress the 4 years Pruitt wasn't on staff (2013-15), improved the 2 years he came back, and dropped off the year he left again.

But before we anoint Kirby as a thorn in Saban's side we really need to see if he can recover from a massive hit like he just got (losing a ridiculous amount of starters to the draft, losing both coordinators, and losing 2 top recruited qbs 2 years in a row).
 

TheBeasKnees

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I don’t see a correlation. Kirby’s success and Nick losing coaches have nothing to do with one another. If you see something, perhaps you should explain further. And I dare say Pruitt was a bigger loss than Smart! And LUPOI has not been replaced, not that I am aware of, anyway.
I don't really think the correlation is debatable. Just compare the rate at which coaches were getting snatched up before Smart left and the rate at which they're leaving now (which is almost every year). Also, Lupoi hasn't been replaced to my knowledge either. That's why I said "has had to replace Defensive Coordinators" because I'm speaking about the past four years; not this year.
 

TheBeasKnees

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Kirby's defense was doing us no favors from 2013-2015. I think we may have held on to Kirby a year or two too long. Probably the biggest departure from the defense in the past few years is actually Pruitt. Its kinda odd that from 2013-2015 Kirby's defenses were lacking but the two years after they were some of the strongest. In otherwords its kinda funny that we started to regress the 4 years Pruitt wasn't on staff (2013-15), improved the 2 years he came back, and dropped off the year he left again.

But before we anoint Kirby as a thorn in Saban's side we really need to see if he can recover from a massive hit like he just got (losing a ridiculous amount of starters to the draft, losing both coordinators, and losing 2 top recruited qbs 2 years in a row).
Absolutely agree, and just to clarify (because I think a lot of people are assuming this) I really don't think Smart is Saban's equal or some all-time great coach. I do believe, though, that his success over the past two years as a head coach has only made other schools want Saban assistants more.
 

81usaf92

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I agree completely. I'm talking about the effect of Smart's success as a head coach, though, not really the effect of losing him on our staff.
I think having Marc Richt success in a weak east is nothing new to UGA or the SEC. Lets see how he does with competition and unexpected turnover like he is going to face this year before we really categorize him as a real thorn in CNS's side. He may be a real problem or he may be another dumdum that gives us more things to laugh at UGA about. I'm right now leaning towards the latter .
 

TheBeasKnees

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I think having Marc Richt success in a weak east is nothing new to UGA or the SEC. Lets see how he does with competition and unexpected turnover like he is going to face this year before we really categorize him as a real thorn in CNS's side. He may be a real problem or he may be another dumdum that gives us more things to laugh at UGA about. I'm right now leaning towards the latter .
Sure. That's fair. Just keep in mind that UGA is about 30 combined seconds from being 2-0 against Bama in our last two meetings. It's not like we have just had our way with them.
 

TitleWave

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I think it's pretty obvious that what Kirby has built in Athens is/will be a thorn in Saban's side for years to come. But I think his success has also hurt Saban in a less obvious way and it was evident in the national championship game.

Saban will have to replace his Offensive Coordinator for the fourth season in a row (Lane Kiffin, Brian Daboll, and now Mike Locksley), and has had to replace Defensive Coordinators for three of the last four years going into this season (Kirby Smart, Jeremy Pruitt, and Tosh Lupoi). And every time a coordinator leaves a substantial amount of their staff usually leaves with them.

Out of the names listed above, Kirby Smart's loss had the biggest impact because of the amount of experience he had with the program and because of how much of the defensive staff he took with him. But Kirby's success at UGA (IMO) continues to hurt Bama now even more than his original departure. It seems like the coaching attrition Saban has had to deal with over the years has drastically accelerated in the past three years directly coinciding with Kirby Smart's success at UGA.

My question is, will Saban attempt to make any cultural changes around the program to promote the retention of staff after the outcome of this national championship game? Or do you think that Saban will stick to his business-like approach to coaches and just accept the coaching turnover each year?


Just a hunch, but I don't think special teams coach "Banksy" is in any danger of getting promoted upward and onward any time soon. Unless "Little Giants Jr.: The Special Teams Sequel" goes into production this year, of course...
 

jashleyren2

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Actually, UT bungling their head coaching search probably cost us the NC this year. Had UT hired Schiano, or one of the ten coaches before/after him, Pruitt would have most likely stayed on board with us one more year. Basically a guarantee that the defense would've improved more over the season and played better against Clemson. So yea, UT's inept athletic department really hurt our chances this past season..
tennessee is like herpes. It lies in wait, but it's always there to ruin the day. Thanks for nothing competitive on the field at all, for a decade.
 

TheBeasKnees

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Just a hunch, but I don't think special teams coach "Banksy" is in any danger of getting promoted upward and onward any time soon. Unless "Little Giants Jr.: The Special Teams Sequel" goes into production this year, of course...
I am so glad you mentioned this. Believe it or not, Jeff Banks actually won an award for Special Teams Coordinator of the year. How is this possible? I have no earthly idea. But it happened. AL.com did an article on it stating that he was named Football Scoop's Special Teams Coordinator of the Year back on Dec. 20, 2018.
 

81usaf92

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Sure. That's fair. Just keep in mind that UGA is about 30 combined seconds from being 2-0 against Bama in our last two meetings. It's not like we have just had our way with them.
Oh I keep that in mind, but also keep in mind the amount of talent Kirby inherited, the state of the SECE, and the fact that Kirby's coaching props directly lead to him losing two games vs Alabama. I think its far too soon to just give Kirby that amount of credit just yet. Its like when everyone was going crazy about Mac winning the east two years in a row, and was totally shocked when the cupboard of talent went bare in year 3 of how much of a mediocre coach he really was without talent. Am I saying Kirby is equal to Mac in terms of coaching and recruiting? No, but I am saying we wont know where he is as a coach until he faces true competition for his division, and a year with massive turnover. This year will tell a lot about Kirby.
 

TheBeasKnees

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Oh I keep that in mind, but also keep in mind the amount of talent Kirby inherited, the state of the SECE, and the fact that Kirby's coaching props directly lead to him losing two games vs Alabama. I think its far too soon to just give Kirby that amount of credit just yet. Its like when everyone was going crazy about Mac winning the east two years in a row, and was totally shocked when the cupboard of talent went bare in year 3 of how much of a mediocre coach he really was without talent. Am I saying Kirby is equal to Mac in terms of coaching and recruiting? No, but I am saying we wont know where he is as a coach until he faces true competition for his division, and a year with massive turnover. This year will tell a lot about Kirby.
Yeah I don't think it's fair to mention Mac and Kirby in the same sentence. What were the scores when we played Mac's Florida teams? And Kirby inherited a lot but he's also about to have a top 2 rated recruiting class for the second straight year. I get what you're saying about it still being early, but I think Kirby (with 1 SEC Championship and 1 CFP berth and a chance at both again this year) has already achieved a lot more Mac.
 

bamaga

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I don't really think the correlation is debatable. Just compare the rate at which coaches were getting snatched up before Smart left and the rate at which they're leaving now (which is almost every year). Also, Lupoi hasn't been replaced to my knowledge either. That's why I said "has had to replace Defensive Coordinators" because I'm speaking about the past four years; not this year.
The correlation is debatable , because Kirby having success is not causing Alabama to lose coaches. Nick Saban is causing Alabama to lose coaches with his success. They aren’t hiring Alabama coaches because of Kirby.
 

AlexanderFan

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Sure. That's fair. Just keep in mind that UGA is about 30 combined seconds from being 2-0 against Bama in our last two meetings. It's not like we have just had our way with them.
And Alabama is one offensive pass interference call from having three of the last four national titles.

Can you even name any coaches who left before Smart?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

81usaf92

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Yeah I don't think it's fair to mention Mac and Kirby in the same sentence. What were the scores when we played Mac's Florida teams? And Kirby inherited a lot but he's also about to have a top 2 rated recruiting class for the second straight year. I get what you're saying about it still being early, but I think Kirby (with 1 SEC Championship and 1 CFP berth and a chance at both again this year) has already achieved a lot more Mac.
Mark Richt (1st 3 years): 32-8 (18-6 SEC) 1 SECC
Kirby Smart: 32-10 (18-6 SEC) 1SECC

I think its hard to argue that Richt didn't inherit nearly the amount of talent from Jim Donnan as KS did from Richt. Its also hard to argue that KS has faced as stiff competition in the East as Richt did either. At some point you have to ask "what has changed?" The answer is "Nothing except KS is just more motivated than Mark Richt was in his final years at UGA, and on par with Mark Richt in his first 3 years."

FWIW I think Kirby is a GOOD coach, maybe a snake in the grass and a pouty man baby that I hope nothing but the worst for, but its hard to argue that he isn't one of the top 15 (maybe top 10) active coaches in college football. But a clear and present danger to Alabama.... I'm just not sold because he has had everything going for him but still couldn't finish the job. It is possible Kirby proves me wrong but in the meantime I just think him and UGA are just him and UGA and nothing more.
 
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TheBeasKnees

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The correlation is debatable , because Kirby having success is not causing Alabama to lose coaches. Nick Saban is causing Alabama to lose coaches with his success. They aren’t hiring Alabama coaches because of Kirby.
That's causation. And sure you can debate whether or not Kirby's success has had an effect on how many Bama assistants have been hired since his departure. Correlation is the direct relationship between two variables. Those variables are the point in time when Kirby left and the increased rate at which assistants have been hired away from Bama since. The correlation between those two variables can't be debated.
 
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