Alabama, Oklahoma announce future home-and-home

selmaborntidefan

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Leverage at its finest. Doesn’t change the fact that they ran Nebraska and A&M out. Texas will always be a cancer.
That's because they can afford to be.


A buxom skinny woman with money has her pick of men.
Trailer park trash takes what it can get.


That's just reality.
 

81usaf92

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Leverage at its finest. Doesn’t change the fact that they ran Nebraska and A&M out. Texas will always be a cancer.
and I'm thanking the good lord everyday that they exposed the stupidity of Nebraska. :biggrin:

But on a more serious note, the Big 8 would've never survived in the modern era without a merger with Texas or the Big 10. Missouri was the only one with lucrative markets. So it would've folded like the Big East once someone started slipping checks to the bigger market teams.


On a side note, I'm kinda curious of why everyone has this sympathy for Nebraska but not Missouri. Missouri ACTUALLY STARTED the defection from Texas, and actually had a deal with the Big 10 until Nebraska undercut them. Missouri and Colorado in truth were the most affected by the LHN, not Nebraska or aTm.
 
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selmaborntidefan

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and I'm thanking the good lord everyday that they exposed the stupidity of Nebraska. :biggrin:

But on a more serious note, the Big 8 would've never survived in the modern era without a merger with Texas or the Big 10. Missouri was the only one with lucrative markets. So it would've folded like the Big East once someone started slipping checks to the bigger market teams.


On a side note, I'm kinda curious of why everyone has this sympathy for Nebraska but not Missouri. Missouri ACTUALLY STARTED the defection from Texas, and actually had a deal with the Big 10 until Nebraska undercut them. Missouri and Colorado in truth were the most affected by the LHN, not Nebraska or aTm.
The Big 12 itself was an arranged marriage. The SWC was dying because: a) corruption; b) Arkansas left, making it "The Texas Conference," no teams outside the borders of the Lone Star State.

Their merger AT THE TIME was the right move. And the Big 8 was never more than the Big 3 AT MOST and that depended upon Colorado being a good team, which they were post-1984 for awhile but not always.
 

BamaJama17

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and I'm thanking the good lord everyday that they exposed the stupidity of Nebraska. :biggrin:

But on a more serious note, the Big 8 would've never survived in the modern era without a merger with Texas or the Big 10. Missouri was the only one with lucrative markets. So it would've folded like the Big East once someone started slipping checks to the bigger market teams.
The Big 8 was doing just “fine” (Yes I know the Big 2-Little 6) before the Big 12 merger. It was the SWC that was in free fall. However I get that they eventually would of had to expand and the only place to go was into Texas. Did anyone ever really think though that Colorado, Nebraska, Missouri, and A&M would leave the Big 12? I certainly did not.
 

81usaf92

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Their merger AT THE TIME was the right move. And the Big 8 was never more than the Big 3 AT MOST and that depended upon Colorado being a good team, which they were post-1984 for awhile but not always.
I think it might be more than a coincidence that the downfall of Nebraska as a true power started to happen once they had to join a conference with more than 1 team to play, and Oklahoma suddenly goes on a pretty much a 20 year run of dominating the BIG XII. All the Big XII did was strengthen Texas and Oklahoma's recruiting bases and weaken everyone else. I think the only teams to benefit from the merger were Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas.
 

81usaf92

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The Big 8 was doing just “fine” (Yes I know the Big 2-Little 6) before the Big 12 merger..
The Big East was doing just "fine" as well until the ACC started slipping Miami and VT money. The problem with the Big 8 is that it was living off the KC and St Louis markets, and whoever got Missouri would've crippled the Big 8. The Big XII was an effort to keep everyone together, and be able to survive if Missouri was gobbled up by some other conference. Keep in mind that TV markets were becoming more and more important so power conferences were starting to base membership off of that in the 90's.

Did anyone ever really think though that Colorado, Nebraska, Missouri, and A&M would leave the Big 12? I certainly did not.
Yes especially Missouri and Colorado. The Cornshuckers are the dumbest of the dumb for bolting to the Big 10 given their situation, and to be honest the LHN and TEXAS had little to no effect on their situation. Colorado and Missouri are fertile recruiting grounds in the Midwest, and Texas airing HS games for top recruits really affects Missouri and Colorado a hell of a lot more than Nebraska. Point is Nebraska had no business whatsoever in leaving the Big XII, but Colorado and Missouri did.

As for aTm, its really tricky. I think Stallings being on the BOT really made it an inevitable depending on the mood at the time, and ultimately that was the case. But aTm usually just flirted around to get Texas to give them a better cut, so it was always a 50/50 kinda thing of staying and going.
 
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BamaJama17

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The Big 12 itself was an arranged marriage. The SWC was dying because: a) corruption; b) Arkansas left, making it "The Texas Conference," no teams outside the borders of the Lone Star State.

Their merger AT THE TIME was the right move. And the Big 8 was never more than the Big 3 AT MOST and that depended upon Colorado being a good team, which they were post-1984 for awhile but not always.
The SWC was already a corpse for 4 seasons after Arkansas left and was finally buried in 1996. Had there been Internet and social media I’m sure a lot more teams due to corruption would’ve been given the death penalty other than SMU.
 

TideEngineer08

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If the egos could have been managed, the Big 12 would have been a long lasting success. They needed to have split Texas and Oklahoma into separate divisions, and made the RRS an annual crossover game (like Alabama vs. Tennessee). This would have accomplished two things: separate the two richest and most influential programs to balance the league, and protect one of the biggest rivalries in college football, Nebraska vs. Oklahoma. When times are lean, at least in college football, you fall back on tradition. That's your anchor. When you destroy tradition and the inevitable hard times come, it's much easier to bail.

Granted this is all so easy to say in hindsight. At the time, in 1996, Oklahoma was trash and was getting destroyed by 70 points against Nebraska each year. I'm sure they wanted no part of that game on an annual basis if they could avoid it. Nebraska was probably more than happy to have Oklahoma and Texas on the other side of the league, figuring they'd always run roughshod over the weaker North division. I know things seemed balanced in those days because Colorado was a tough team that was giving Nebraska far more competition than Oklahoma. Missouri was decent. Bill Snyder had built up Kansas State. The North was seen as the stronger division, actually, but most of that was because of Nebraska being in the midst of its historic run.

The problem with the Big 12 was the members always thought about and desired what was best in the moment, and not what would ensure a strong future. They were the quintessential spoiled rich kid that spent all of his dad's inheritance instead of investing in the stock market. In the end, it was doomed from the beginning. But I'm a child of the 1990s, so there's a lot of nostalgia there for me. I wish they could have held it together.
 

BamaJama17

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The Big East was doing just "fine" as well until the ACC started slipping Miami and VT money. The problem with the Big 8 is that it was living off the KC and St Louis markets, and whoever got Missouri would've crippled the Big 8. The Big XII was an effort to keep everyone together, and be able to survive if Missouri was gobbled up by some other conference. Keep in mind that TV markets were becoming more and more important so power conferences were starting to base membership off of that in the 90's.


Yes especially Missouri and Colorado. The Cornshuckers are the dumbest of the dumb for bolting to the Big 10 given their situation, and to be honest the LHN and TEXAS had little to no effect on their situation. Colorado and Missouri are fertile recruiting grounds in the Midwest, and Texas airing HS games for top recruits really affects Missouri and Colorado a hell of a lot more than Nebraska. Point is Nebraska had no business whatsoever in leaving the Big XII, but Colorado and Missouri did.

As for aTm, its really tricky. I think Stallings being on the BOT really made it an inevitable depending on the mood at the time, and ultimately that was the case. But aTm usually just flirted around to get Texas to give them a better cut, so it was always a 50/50 kinda thing of staying and going.
Well Miami and Virginia Tech were great fits for the ACC. IMO the ACC has always been better that the Big East. Now before everyone was on TV the game was much more regionalized, that I can acknowledge. I highly doubt the SEC was looking to take Missouri in the early 90’s though. I just hate that the old rivalry games from the Big 8 and SWC are now gone.
 

BamaJama17

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If the egos could have been managed, the Big 12 would have been a long lasting success. They needed to have split Texas and Oklahoma into separate divisions, and made the RRS an annual crossover game (like Alabama vs. Tennessee). This would have accomplished two things: separate the two richest and most influential programs to balance the league, and protect one of the biggest rivalries in college football, Nebraska vs. Oklahoma. When times are lean, at least in college football, you fall back on tradition. That's your anchor. When you destroy tradition and the inevitable hard times come, it's much easier to bail.

Granted this is all so easy to say in hindsight. At the time, in 1996, Oklahoma was trash and was getting destroyed by 70 points against Nebraska each year. I'm sure they wanted no part of that game on an annual basis if they could avoid it. Nebraska was probably more than happy to have Oklahoma and Texas on the other side of the league, figuring they'd always run roughshod over the weaker North division. I know things seemed balanced in those days because Colorado was a tough team that was giving Nebraska far more competition than Oklahoma. Missouri was decent. Bill Snyder had built up Kansas State. The North was seen as the stronger division, actually, but most of that was because of Nebraska being in the midst of its historic run.

The problem with the Big 12 was the members always thought about and desired what was best in the moment, and not what would ensure a strong future. They were the quintessential spoiled rich kid that spent all of his dad's inheritance instead of investing in the stock market. In the end, it was doomed from the beginning. But I'm a child of the 1990s, so there's a lot of nostalgia there for me. I wish they could have held it together.
The only problem was that the Oklahoma schools were the furthest south in the newly formed Big 12. One way or another the annual rivalries were going to be stopped no matter who was placed in the south region. IIRC they did not do a permanent cross division rival. Big mistake.
 

selmaborntidefan

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The SWC was already a corpse for 4 seasons after Arkansas left and was finally buried in 1996. Had there been Internet and social media I’m sure a lot more teams due to corruption would’ve been given the death penalty other than SMU.
Four seasons passed, but the merger was already in the works in February 1994.

And what brought about the merger? Why ABC Sports, of course.

They offered both conferences a TV deal - and then offered to sweeten the pot if they merged. Furthermore, that's also what helped destroy the WAC, which was already NOT a major conference.

The Big 12 even held out the carrot for BYU, which was the only "real" name in the WAC back in 1994. And the Big 8 WAS, in fact, more lucrative nationally than the SWC for a rather obvious reason: the entire SWC was in Texas.

Oh btw - in typical Texas fashion, the head of the SWC at the time strenuously DENIED any merger was going to happen.....and five days later the merger was announced.
 

TideEngineer08

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The only problem was that the Oklahoma schools were the furthest south in the newly formed Big 12. One way or another the annual rivalries were going to be stopped no matter who was placed in the south region. IIRC they did not do a permanent cross division rival. Big mistake.
Yeah, they would have had to ignore geography. But as I've thought through it, you are right, there was no way every rivalry could have been saved, unless they had 2 protected crossover games each year. Which is exactly what the SEC did in the beginning. If you'll recall, we had Tennessee and Vanderbilt every year for several years before we dropped Vandy as an annual opponent.

Anyway, I thought it was a great league back in the day. It was never going to last with every ounce of power concentrated in one division though.
 

DzynKingRTR

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Yeah, they would have had to ignore geography. But as I've thought through it, you are right, there was no way every rivalry could have been saved, unless they had 2 protected crossover games each year. Which is exactly what the SEC did in the beginning. If you'll recall, we had Tennessee and Vanderbilt every year for several years before we dropped Vandy as an annual opponent.

Anyway, I thought it was a great league back in the day. It was never going to last with every ounce of power concentrated in one division though.
It is a good thing the B1G hasn't done that....oh wait.
 

BamaJama17

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Yeah, they would have had to ignore geography. But as I've thought through it, you are right, there was no way every rivalry could have been saved, unless they had 2 protected crossover games each year. Which is exactly what the SEC did in the beginning. If you'll recall, we had Tennessee and Vanderbilt every year for several years before we dropped Vandy as an annual opponent.

Anyway, I thought it was a great league back in the day. It was never going to last with every ounce of power concentrated in one division though.
Such an easy fix for a permanent cross division game they simply ignored.

Yes Texas and OU for sure made it top heavy but I highly doubt anyone foresaw just how far Nebraska would fall let alone the fact they would eventually leave the conference for the Big Ten. 7 out of Nebraska’s first 8 seasons in the Big 12 (minus 2002) ranged from National Champions to at the very least respectable. After that they became like an Ole Miss. Mediocre to very bad. Looking back on things, I’ve always felt like Texas was the main girlfriend for Oklahoma while Nebraska was more like a very good looking side chick but would never get the ring.
 

TideEngineer08

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It is a good thing the B1G hasn't done that....oh wait.
You're right. But my counterpoint on that would be at least those institutions have nearly a century of history to hold them together. The West has a ton of history together and several rivalries. Yes, the core of the historical power base is in the East with Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State. Even Michigan State probably has as much or more historical power than say, Wisconsin. But they were still splitting up a conference than had been together since the 1900s. Whereas the Big 12 was a shotgun marriage of two conferences. The Big 12 needed to have preserved a lot more history than they did.
 

81usaf92

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You're right. But my counterpoint on that would be at least those institutions have nearly a century of history to hold them together. The West has a ton of history together and several rivalries. Yes, the core of the historical power base is in the East with Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State. Even Michigan State probably has as much or more historical power than say, Wisconsin. But they were still splitting up a conference than had been together since the 1900s. Whereas the Big 12 was a shotgun marriage of two conferences. The Big 12 needed to have preserved a lot more history than they did.
The big 10 actually fixed the conference from the original Leaders-Legends setup. Could you imagine back to back weeks of Michigan-Ohio St? They just didn’t take into account about how horrible Nebraska would become without Missouri.... but otherwise the East-West thing works perfectly.
 

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