News Article: Mueller Delivers Report on Russia Investigation to Attorney General

twofbyc said:

Or imagine Clinton never going under oath.


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Or the orange one going under oath:eek2:

81usaf92 said:

Wishful thinking, but not reality. There are too few Teapartiers left in the Senate to go along with the “abolish and then think about a replacement” to ever let him get away with it. But I do think that maybe the only thing that can turn his base on him.

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They are putting this in the judiciary’s hands, not Congress.
Remember all the claptrap from conservatives about “activist judges”? Look at all of Trumps’s judiciary appointments carefully, and tell me with a straight face you think they are all strict constitutionalists with no propensity or desire for activism.
Trump is going around Congress - or trying to.



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twofbyc said:

They are putting this in the judiciary’s hands, not Congress.
Remember all the claptrap from conservatives about “activist judges”? Look at all of Trumps’s judiciary appointments carefully, and tell me with a straight face you think they are all strict constitutionalists with no propensity or desire for activism.
Trump is going around Congress - or trying to.



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Even so you are also talking about years and years of having a conservative sitting SCOTUS that hasn't been able to: " Overturn Roe v Wade, ruled in favor of flag burners, and ruled in favor of Westboro Baptist Church and forced the sueing dead veteran's father to pay all the legal fees". I'm going to say even the judicial route is foggy at best. So yes still wishful thinking imo

Also, You already know its 4-4 going into this thing with Roberts being the decider. Roberts has already sided on the ACA's side once, and has been the victim of criticism by Trump over it all through his campaign. So you are basically basing your fears on the possibility that Roberts flips. Also worth noting Kennedy and Scalia was a dissenting figure on the issue so Kavy and Gorsuch create no real difference here.

crimsonaudio said:

Nice drive by but we've been through this before. The VA is a shining example of how bad single-payer can be, and yah, while it's 'available for all', people who can afford better health care would prefer to keep that better healthcare, even at a greater cost.

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Yeah I found out Tri Care is only good when you can find people who take Tri Care, and its usually weeks and months before they can see you.

81usaf92 said:

Even so you are also talking about years and years of having a conservative sitting SCOTUS that hasn't been able to: " Overturn Roe v Wade, ruled in favor of flag burners, and ruled in favor of Westboro Baptist Church and forced the sueing dead veteran's father to pay all the legal fees". I'm going to say even the judicial route is foggy at best. So yes still wishful thinking imo

Also, You already know its 4-4 going into this thing with Roberts being the decider. Roberts has already sided on the ACA's side once, and has been the victim of criticism by Trump over it all through his campaign. So you are basically basing your fears on the possibility that Roberts flips. Also worth noting Kennedy and Scalia was a dissenting figure on the issue so Kavy and Gorsuch create no real difference here.

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Roberts changed his vote twice on ACA. He’s an enigma wrapped inside a mystery, but he’s still a conservative.
I’m not saying or never did say, as you seem to imply, that Trumps’s play would be successful. Actually, via several articles I linked, this is a disaster for him and Republicans. If they persist, it will take forever to wind through the court system - most likely not resolved by even the next election. And I’m glad he’s doing it, because it will mean Medicare for all sooner rather than later.


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crimsonaudio said:

Nice drive by but we've been through this before. The VA is a shining example of how bad single-payer can be, and yah, while it's 'available for all', people who can afford better health care would prefer to keep that better healthcare, even at a greater cost.

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No reason they couldn’t, that I know of; what I gathered from what I saw of the structure of the different models, at least one kept that option.
Nice try though.


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crimsonaudio said:

Nice drive by but we've been through this before. The VA is a shining example of how bad single-payer can be, and yah, while it's 'available for all', people who can afford better health care would prefer to keep that better healthcare, even at a greater cost.

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And I’m on Medicare - find anyone else who is and let them tell you how much they hate it.
I would say I’d wait, but I don’t think I’d live that long.


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twofbyc said:

Roberts changed his vote twice on ACA. He’s an enigma wrapped inside a mystery, but he’s still a conservative.

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And so was Kennedy.... The point is that he will most likely side with the side of common sense instead of play politics since now he is the swing vote.

twofbyc said:

I’m not saying or never did say, as you seem to imply, that Trumps’s play would be successful. Actually, via several articles I linked, this is a disaster for him and Republicans. If they persist, it will take forever to wind through the court system - most likely not resolved by even the next election. And I’m glad he’s doing it, because it will mean Medicare for all sooner rather than later.


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Don't get your hopes up. I heard the "death of the republican party" all from 2012- present, but the Democrats still haven't done it under Trump.

As for Trump, its actually a smarter play than what you think. If he fails its another "The Democrats have been unreasonable and blocked OUR revolution" and if he succeeds Its another Win for him. If the Democrats are banking on this then they still haven't figured out that the only two policies that matter in a presidential election are the economy and national defense. The democrats need to gear up around a candidate that is strong on those two things, and that isn't stupid enough to get in the mud with the Teflon Don.

TIDE-HSV said:

I think healthcare was the driving force in the Democrats taking back the house and I think it will be again in 2020. He's not only after the ACA, he's after Medicare as well, just Rand Cliffnotes Paul Ryan was...

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I just have my doubts that it will matter in a national election. If it did then we wouldn’t have trump in the first place because Hillary would’ve been the obvious winner based on the “repeal and replace” and blasting John Roberts constantly throughout Trump’s campaign.

Healthcare is an issue like abortion, gun control, and education in that they are important in a local election but nowhere near as important as the economy and national defense in the National.

Another problem is none of the Democratic candidates can agree on what type of healthcare they want, and that is just as troubling for democratic chances in 2020 if they are truly banking on this issue.

81usaf92 said:

I just have my doubts that it will matter in a national election. If it did then we wouldn’t have trump in the first place because Hillary would’ve been the obvious winner based on the “repeal and replace” and blasting John Roberts constantly throughout Trump’s campaign.

Healthcare is an issue like abortion, gun control, and education in that they are important in a local election but nowhere near as important as the economy and national defense in the National.

Another problem is none of the Democratic candidates can agree on what type of healthcare they want, and that is just as troubling for democratic chances in 2020 if they are truly banking on this issue.

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well, in 2016, the media weren't talking about issues, they were talking about emails. hopefully that won't happen again, but our electorate loves some shiny objects.

92tide said:

well, in 2016, the media weren't talking about issues, they were talking about emails. hopefully that won't happen again, but our electorate loves some shiny objects.

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Well then let’s use a different example:

2010 the Republicans rode into control of Congress largely due to their opposition to ACA and the stimulus.

2012 the Republicans lost to the Democrats in the presidential by a large margin.

If the National mood about smaller issues from the midterms mattered then Obama would’ve never gotten re-elected. My point is I don’t see last year’s midterms as being any different from any other midterm in relation to determining the next presidential election. It’s going to be won or lost on the same two things it always has been won and lost on.

81usaf92 said:

Well then let’s use a different example:

2010 the Republicans rode into control of Congress largely due to their opposition to ACA and the stimulus.

2012 the Republicans lost to the Democrats in the presidential by a large margin.

If the National mood about smaller issues from the midterms mattered then Obama would’ve never gotten re-elected. My point is I don’t see last year’s midterms as being any different from any other midterm in relation to determining the next presidential election. It’s going to be won or lost on the same two things it always has been won and lost on.

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i think by 2012 the national mood about those issues had changed and the economy was actually doing better. the "mood" that was affecting 2010 was in large part from the "grassroots" tea party express nonsense which was basically fox news campaigning non-stop against obama and the democrats and pretending they were practicing journalism.

i hope the gop does try to make it about healthcare and other issues, because they have nothing of substance to offer on anything except spite and resentment. it's taking a lot longer than i thought it should, but some folks are starting to wake up to this.

92tide said:

i think by 2012 the national mood about those issues had changed and the economy was actually doing better. the "mood" that was affecting 2010 was in large part from the "grassroots" tea party express nonsense which was basically fox news campaigning non-stop against obama and the democrats and pretending they were practicing journalism.

i hope the gop does try to make it about healthcare and other issues, because they have nothing of substance to offer on anything except spite and resentment. it's taking a lot longer than i thought it should, but some folks are starting to wake up to this.

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I would argue that the economy and the death of Bin Laden ( National defense issue) was what pushed Obama over Romney more than anything else. I’m just having a hard time finding a single issue other than ND and the economy costing a sitting president from the 20th and 21st centuries the seat other than maybe Ford and Taft

HW- the economy
Carter- National defense
Ford- the Nixon administration
Hoover- the economy
Taft- splitting the vote with Teddy

81usaf92 said:

I would argue that the economy and the death of Bin Laden ( National defense issue) was what pushed Obama over Romney more than anything else. I’m just having a hard time finding a single issue other than ND and the economy costing a sitting president from the 20th and 21st centuries the seat other than maybe Ford and Taft

HW- the economy
Carter- National defense
Ford- the Nixon administration
Hoover- the economy
Taft- splitting the vote with Teddy

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well, that and romney 3.0 making john kerry and al gore seem charismatic by comparison.

i don't think the economy will be in great shape by the time the election rolls around. that might be the only thing that shakes some of his supporters, because they seem perfectly ok with all of the other crap.

https://www.businessinsider.com/wil...ning-white-house-counsel-office-report-2019-2

I did not see this posted anywhere. Does anyone know if it actually happened? If so, he and his father need to be fired on the spot.

GrayTide said:

https://www.businessinsider.com/wil...ning-white-house-counsel-office-report-2019-2

I did not see this posted anywhere. Does anyone know if it actually happened? If so, he and his father need to be fired on the spot.

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iokiyar

this pales in comparison to slick willie's 30 minute meeting on the tarmac with a.g. lynch, they are the ones who need to be locked up