Offseason Question: When Saban Retires.....Who?

pigsinspace

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I think it was a part of the Evil Lord Saban's plan.

"Let's call this play here. When they intercept it - instead of let it drop - we take out Colt McCoy on the fifth play. Pure. Evil. Genius.

Obviously I don't believe that but anyway........
Why don't we think about that Texas coach(whichever Brown it was). Just think of how many NC's he would have won if Colt hadn't got hurt. My phone doesn't do blue font.
 

TomFromBama

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I agree with Bill, I always figured Steve Sloan would return to Alabama as HC. He won at Vanderbilt and Texas Tech which is hard to figure, but bombed at Ole Miss. Sloan was always one of Coach Bryant's favorites and had all the qualities you would want in a HC; if he had won at Ole Miss I am sure he would have been the HC at Alabama at some point, but that is pure speculation.
No offense to anyone, but I've never been a fan of Steve Sloan. I was an undergrad back when Sloan was "Coaching" (I use that term loosely) at Ole Mrs. Back in those days, long before "ESPiN" and widespread cable, we used to watch all the Mississippi Coaches shows - they ran one after another on Sunday evening.

Y'all think Stan White is tough to listen to? Stan's got NOTHIN' on Steve!

MOST weeks Sloan was making excuses for a loss, but to hear him narrate the highlights, you'd have thought Old Mrs won the game. EVERY play was a "near touchdown" - IF the RB had just broken that one tackle behind the LOS, or the QB just had a few more second to make that throw, or IF the WR had just been in position to catch that pass, yada, yada, yada - same story every week. Every play was the right call, but ONLY failed due to a lucky break for the other team....... :rolleyes:

Then, as our AD, his "signature" achievement was bowing down to pat dye and waving the white flag of surrender, ending the REAL "Iron Bowl" forever.

Say what you want -
Army and Navy play every year on a neutral field in front of a split crowd. Neither school gets Diaper Rash over it!
UGa travels TO FLORIDA every year to play UF in front of a split crowd in Jacksonville (at UF's version of "Legion Field", no less). (and its SO "unfair" that UGa still leads the series)
OU travels TO TEXAS every year to play UT in front of a split crowd in Dallas. (and its SO "unfair" that OU still leads the series in games played Since the end of WW-II).

But SOMEHOW, it was just "Too unfair" to ask the boogs to travel 100 miles up the interstate from West Opelika, GA to Birmingham, AL (a city FULL of aub fans) to play a traditional Rivalry game in front of a split crowd, and maintain a ~40 year Tradition.

Mind you! I am NOT suggesting that we should move the game back to Legion Field!!!! Eventually the change would have been inevitable. That's Beyond Dispute!
My beef is Merely that the MANNER in which the game was moved was SHAMEFUL, and amounted to nothing less than a COWERING CAPITULATION on the part of The University.

So, that's why I'm not a Sloan fan. Nothing against his character, I'm sure he's kind to children and small animals, etc...... ;)

 

selmaborntidefan

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No offense to anyone, but I've never been a fan of Steve Sloan. I was an undergrad back when Sloan was "Coaching" (I use that term loosely) at Ole Mrs. Back in those days, long before "ESPiN" and widespread cable, we used to watch all the Mississippi Coaches shows - they ran one after another on Sunday evening.

Y'all think Stan White is tough to listen to? Stan's got NOTHIN' on Steve!

MOST weeks Sloan was making excuses for a loss, but to hear him narrate the highlights, you'd have thought Old Mrs won the game. EVERY play was a "near touchdown" - IF the RB had just broken that one tackle behind the LOS, or the QB just had a few more second to make that throw, or IF the WR had just been in position to catch that pass, yada, yada, yada - same story every week. Every play was the right call, but ONLY failed due to a lucky break for the other team....... :rolleyes:

Then, as our AD, his "signature" achievement was bowing down to pat dye and waving the white flag of surrender, ending the REAL "Iron Bowl" forever.

Say what you want -
Army and Navy play every year on a neutral field in front of a split crowd. Neither school gets Diaper Rash over it!
UGa travels TO FLORIDA every year to play UF in front of a split crowd in Jacksonville (at UF's version of "Legion Field", no less). (and its SO "unfair" that UGa still leads the series)
OU travels TO TEXAS every year to play UT in front of a split crowd in Dallas. (and its SO "unfair" that OU still leads the series in games played Since the end of WW-II).

But SOMEHOW, it was just "Too unfair" to ask the boogs to travel 100 miles up the interstate from West Opelika, GA to Birmingham, AL (a city FULL of aub fans) to play a traditional Rivalry game in front of a split crowd, and maintain a ~40 year Tradition.

Mind you! I am NOT suggesting that we should move the game back to Legion Field!!!! Eventually the change would have been inevitable. That's Beyond Dispute!
My beef is Merely that the MANNER in which the game was moved was SHAMEFUL, and amounted to nothing less than a COWERING CAPITULATION on the part of The University.

So, that's why I'm not a Sloan fan. Nothing against his character, I'm sure he's kind to children and small animals, etc...... ;)


I hate to break it to you, but blaming Steve Sloan for what was going to happen anyway borders on the absurd. In 1979, somewhere around the time the last Iron Bowl contract was signed, JHS seated 61,000 fans. Once they expanded to 85,000 in 1987, there was no way the game was going to stay an all-Legion Field affair, especially when they needed money for those skyboxes.

Keep in mind that the examples you cite consist of BOTH TEAMS agreeing on what is going to happen. OU comes to Dallas because it gives them a footprint to recruit in the Dallas area and Texas, without which they'd be, well, Oklahoma State.

And not even Alabama wants to play in Legion Field today. Getting mad at a guy because he happened to be handed the bomb that went off FOR the bomb going off is ludicrous.
 

NationalTitles18

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I hate to break it to you, but blaming Steve Sloan for what was going to happen anyway borders on the absurd. In 1979, somewhere around the time the last Iron Bowl contract was signed, JHS seated 61,000 fans. Once they expanded to 85,000 in 1987, there was no way the game was going to stay an all-Legion Field affair, especially when they needed money for those skyboxes.

Keep in mind that the examples you cite consist of BOTH TEAMS agreeing on what is going to happen. OU comes to Dallas because it gives them a footprint to recruit in the Dallas area and Texas, without which they'd be, well, Oklahoma State.

And not even Alabama wants to play in Legion Field today. Getting mad at a guy because he happened to be handed the bomb that went off FOR the bomb going off is ludicrous.
Not only that, it can be argued that the move turned out better for Alabama than for Auburn.
 

81usaf92

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Not only that, it can be argued that the move turned out better for Alabama than for Auburn.
Let’s see.... would I rather park at a home in Ensley or park at a shuttle parking lot in Auburn??? I would take Auburn 7 days a week and twice on Sunday. The funny thing is I think 90% here would too.
 

BamaInBham

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The point is that Bama and Sloan had no real choice. When the contract expired AU had the right to play their home game at the place of their choosing. It had nothing to do with Steve Sloan or anyone else at Bama. Bama's only option was to discontinue the series, if that was an option (see state legislature).
 

TomFromBama

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Ok - RESPECTFULLY: No Flames, No Offense intended, Ok? - but, once again - As per usual, pretty much everyone missed THE POINT. :(

So - being the "Cockeyed Optimist" that I am, I'll take one more "swing at the pinata" (so to speak), and I'll REPEAT the key part of my prior post, in the vain hope it might register...

I quote (with added emphasis):
"Mind you! I am NOT suggesting that we should move the game back to Legion Field!!!! Eventually the change would have been inevitable. That's Beyond Dispute!
My beef is Merely that the MANNER in which the game was moved was SHAMEFUL, and amounted to nothing less than a COWERING CAPITULATION on the part of The University."

So here we go in summary form:
The ISSUE is not THAT it happened, but HOW it happened.

There's really no question that when B-D expanded above 80K in 1998, as L-F continued to decay due to the malicious Neglect of the City of Birmingham, at that point (if not earlier) it no longer made ANY sense for UA to play ANY Alabama game at L-F.
Had the game been moved/abrogated at THAT time, or even earlier, due to MUTUAL desire, that would have been a completely DIFFERENT proposition, and in no way shameful or regrettable.

That was my whole point.

AND, as a related, But ever so Slightly DIFFERENT point, It is also my contention that the former "Iron Bowl" was a special game, in a SPECIFIC way that it's NOT "special" today.
It's Still a great rivalry - I'm NOT saying otherwise.
I'm Simply noting the Fact that it's no longer what it once was - and what that was, was a "Bowl-like" atmosphere now seen Only in a small handful of mature rivalries shared by rational and "grown up" institutions, that don't behave like spoiled children.

No flames, just trying to clarify the point.



What a "Bowl game atmosphere" looks like in a college rivalry game, for those too young to remember the real "Iron Bowl"......

UF-UGa "Cocktail party"
 

selmaborntidefan

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Ok - RESPECTFULLY: No Flames, No Offense intended, Ok? - but, once again - As per usual, pretty much everyone missed THE POINT. :(

So - being the "Cockeyed Optimist" that I am, I'll take one more "swing at the pinata" (so to speak), and I'll REPEAT the key part of my prior post, in the vain hope it might register...

I quote (with added emphasis):
"Mind you! I am NOT suggesting that we should move the game back to Legion Field!!!! Eventually the change would have been inevitable. That's Beyond Dispute!
My beef is Merely that the MANNER in which the game was moved was SHAMEFUL, and amounted to nothing less than a COWERING CAPITULATION on the part of The University."
Pat Dye said, "The contract ends in 1988, and we want to play our home games at Auburn."

Ray Perkins said, "I'm willing to negotiate."

What else was there?

So here we go in summary form:
The ISSUE is not THAT it happened, but HOW it happened.
The contract was up. It was dated April 27, 1972, and it ran through 1987. Bryant and then Auburn AD Lee Hayley had an exchange of letters in 1980 that basically extended the agreed to date through 1991. Since Alabama was the home team in 1988, the Iron Bowl was going to be played in Legion Field no matter what that year. Auburn President James Martin and Coach Pat Dye made the point that we did NOT have a SIGNED contract from anyone with Auburn agreeing to the 1991 deal.

This snowball began rolling downhill in June 1985, when Pat Dye signaled his intent in the state newspapers (while disingenuously claiming that these things shouldn't be settled in......the newspaper) to move the game to JHS. Steve Sloan was not the AD in 1985, Ray Perkins was. He first took the rigid stand that "It won't happen" and then he said it was up for negotiation.




There's really no question that when B-D expanded above 80K in 1998, as L-F continued to decay due to the malicious Neglect of the City of Birmingham, at that point (if not earlier) it no longer made ANY sense for UA to play ANY Alabama game at L-F.
Had the game been moved/abrogated at THAT time, or even earlier, due to MUTUAL desire, that would have been a completely DIFFERENT proposition, and in no way shameful or regrettable.
But this is laughable on its face. What you're basically saying - without coming right out and saying - is, "Auburn should have only been able to move the Iron Bowl IF WE agreed to it." Well, in the technical sense we did - we didn't have any choice in the matter. But this appears to be saying "agree" as in, "By golly, we can't WAIT to go down to Auburn." That was never gonna happen, and everyone reading this knows that.

Steve Sloan made a financial decision. Here were his choices:
a) make the best deal you can with Auburn and move the Iron Bowl
b) wind up paying a bunch of lawyers a bunch of money we don't have to eventually move the Iron Bowl

He managed to get, "Okay, we'll play as the home team in Legion Field again in 1991," which was more than we probably deserved.

This very issue irks me just as it did over thirty years ago because even as a 16-year old Tide fan I'm thinking, "If I was Auburn, I'd say the exact same thing." And while we can get the warm little fuzzies looking back nostalgically at a time long gone, college football will go on. It has survived the loss of the annual Oklahoma-Nebraska game - hell, those two aren't even in the same conference anymore, New Year's Day bowl games have gone from glorified exhibitions to games to determine the national champion to not very glorious exhibitions unless you get the sole game on in which the winner will get to play for the national championship; we no longer have the flying wedge, all white teams, or (at Alabama) a kicker capable of making a game-winning 52-yard field goal to beat Auburn.

Incidentally, President Joab Thomas came up with a truly genius solution that he threw at Auburn: "why not have the Iron Bowl ONLY on a rotating basis"? This was a truly stupid idea coming at a time when Alabama athletics were deep in a hole (in the red, er, crimson if you will). Nobody in the 10-team SEC wanted to replace Vandy on their schedule with Alabama or Auburn, so you can imagine how that suggestion went over. The thing wound up in a lawsuit filed by the city of Birmingham and Mayor Richard Arrogance. The Iron Bowl provided the city of Bham with about $20 million of revenue (1988 dollars), so it's easy to see what his interest was. And if you believe Nutbag Auburn Tin Foil Hat Mouth Breathers, the entire Eric Ramsey scandal was caused by Alabama's desire to get even with Auburn for moving the Iron Bowl.

(In this black helicopter scenario, Alabama gets former Homewood native Ramsey to tape record conversations and the tapes are spliced together to incriminate Auburn. After all, Ramsey's attorney was Arrington's attorney (Donald Watkins), Ramsey was from Birmingham area, and the drip drip drip way they kept releasing more incriminating tapes (even better than Wikileaks!) was proof Alabama pulled it off. This, of course, led to Auburn actually hiring Gene Jelks to do the same. In an amusing coincidence, Ramsey tackled Jelks on the second half kickoff for the 1989 Iron Bowl and no doubt they concocted the whole thing right there in front of the JHS audience).

How Alabama was behind Bobby Lowder's bank giving an illegal benefit loan to Ramsey is something these buffoons never can explain. But I think I've dove down this Andy Dufresne level sewer far enough.

The bottom line is that the Iron Bowl was moving, Sloan just happened to be sitting in the office when that brick was coming through the window (wink wink), and he cut the best deal he could get. Saying he just capitulated is historical revisionism of the worst sort.

A blessed day to you, sir.
 

TomFromBama

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But again where has a Bama coach’s endorsement let alone a Saban coaching endorsement ever worked? Keep in mind Saban recommended Houston Nutt for LSU. I think the AD who hired Miles had a better recommendation of Saban’s replacement than Saban.
A couple things here -

FIRST off, I don't know that it's a "Gospel fact" that Saban wanted Nutt - maybe he did, maybe he didn't. Just because people repeat it on internet message boards doesn't make it a fact.

Sure, hindsight is 20-20..... or as pat dye famously said - "50-50". ;) BUT Who's to say Nutt wouldn't have done about as well maintaining Saban's Machine at LSu as Les Miles did? Have you ever compared Miles' pre-LSu record to what Nutt had done up to 2004? You MIGHT be surprised.....

SECOND POINT -

I know you said "Alabama" coaches recommendations - but let's talk a bit more generally about Coaches endorsements that worked out (or could have).

Bryant rather famously implored pat dye to NOT take the aubarn job, and instead wait just a couple years for the Alabama job - I'd call that a "Recommendation". (Maybe it's "sacrilege" to say it - But-) Can you IMAGINE what Dye would have accomplished at UA?????? :eek:

Wimp Sanderson was an assistant on CM Newton's UA Basketball teams. I can say for certain whether Newton recommended Sanderson, but I think it's likely. Maybe others can clarify? Sanderson ended poorly, but otherwise had a pretty decent run by UA Basketball standards.

In 1966, Rip Engle retired as Penn State's Football HC and recommended an assistant as his successor - Joe Paterno. This also ended poorly, but only after 40+ years of pretty good results.....

In 1972, Legendary Coach Bob Devaney retired at Nebraska's HC. He recommended his OC to succeed him.... You may have heard of the guy - Tom Osborne!
Osborne (whatever we may think about how he ran his program), by then a legend far eclipsing Devaney, retired after the 1997 season. He was also one of Nebraska's AD's at the time and he HIRED his RB coach to take over.
Frank Solich was considered a "Bust" by Knebraska fans, because on "Only" won 75.3% of his games - but that's a mark that has not been matched since Solich was fired.
So in hindsight......

When College Basketball Legend Dean Smith retired from UNC he forced the school to hire his long-time assistant Bill Guthridge (himself an elderly man at that time).
Guthridge only made the Final Four in Two of his Three seasons as UNC HC.

Similarly, "Big Game Bob" Stoops forced OU to hire his chosen successor, Lincoln Riley. So far that's worked out reasonably well.

At the same time -
AD's hired all the Nebraska coaches that followed Solich - Callahan, Pellini, and Riley. (We have yet to see what Frost will do in the B1G).
AD's at PSU hired Tom Bradley and Bill O'Brien.
AD's at Notre Dame hired Gerry Faust, Bob Davie, George O'Leary, Tyrone Whittingham and Charlie Weiss.
AD's at USCw hired Ted Tollner, Larry Smith, Paul Hackett, Pete Carroll, Lane Kiffin and Steve Sarkesian. 1 out of Six?
Alabama AD's hired Ears Whitworth, Denise Fraudchionne, Mike Price, Mike Shula, David Hobbs, Stephany Smith, Wendell Hudson. Mitch Gaspard, Greg Goff, and Brad Bohannon.

just sayin'..... ;)

Roll Tide!!!!
 

81usaf92

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A couple things here -

FIRST off, I don't know that it's a "Gospel fact" that Saban wanted Nutt - maybe he did, maybe he didn't. Just because people repeat it on internet message boards doesn't make it a fact.

Sure, hindsight is 20-20..... or as pat dye famously said - "50-50". ;) BUT Who's to say Nutt wouldn't have done about as well maintaining Saban's Machine at LSu as Les Miles did? Have you ever compared Miles' pre-LSu record to what Nutt had done up to 2004? You MIGHT be surprised.....

SECOND POINT -

I know you said "Alabama" coaches recommendations - but let's talk a bit more generally about Coaches endorsements that worked out (or could have).

Bryant rather famously implored pat dye to NOT take the aubarn job, and instead wait just a couple years for the Alabama job - I'd call that a "Recommendation". (Maybe it's "sacrilege" to say it - But-) Can you IMAGINE what Dye would have accomplished at UA?????? :eek:

Wimp Sanderson was an assistant on CM Newton's UA Basketball teams. I can say for certain whether Newton recommended Sanderson, but I think it's likely. Maybe others can clarify? Sanderson ended poorly, but otherwise had a pretty decent run by UA Basketball standards.

In 1966, Rip Engle retired as Penn State's Football HC and recommended an assistant as his successor - Joe Paterno. This also ended poorly, but only after 40+ years of pretty good results.....

In 1972, Legendary Coach Bob Devaney retired at Nebraska's HC. He recommended his OC to succeed him.... You may have heard of the guy - Tom Osborne!
Osborne (whatever we may think about how he ran his program), by then a legend far eclipsing Devaney, retired after the 1997 season. He was also one of Nebraska's AD's at the time and he HIRED his RB coach to take over.
Frank Solich was considered a "Bust" by Knebraska fans, because on "Only" won 75.3% of his games - but that's a mark that has not been matched since Solich was fired.
So in hindsight......

When College Basketball Legend Dean Smith retired from UNC he forced the school to hire his long-time assistant Bill Guthridge (himself an elderly man at that time).
Guthridge only made the Final Four in Two of his Three seasons as UNC HC.

Similarly, "Big Game Bob" Stoops forced OU to hire his chosen successor, Lincoln Riley. So far that's worked out reasonably well.

At the same time -
AD's hired all the Nebraska coaches that followed Solich - Callahan, Pellini, and Riley. (We have yet to see what Frost will do in the B1G).
AD's at PSU hired Tom Bradley and Bill O'Brien.
AD's at Notre Dame hired Gerry Faust, Bob Davie, George O'Leary, Tyrone Whittingham and Charlie Weiss.
AD's at USCw hired Ted Tollner, Larry Smith, Paul Hackett, Pete Carroll, Lane Kiffin and Steve Sarkesian. 1 out of Six?
Alabama AD's hired Ears Whitworth, Denise Fraudchionne, Mike Price, Mike Shula, David Hobbs, Stephany Smith, Wendell Hudson. Mitch Gaspard, Greg Goff, and Brad Bohannon.

just sayin'..... ;)

Roll Tide!!!!
Meh. But an AD hired CNS, Dabo, Meyer, and Jimbo. Very rarely do coach endorsements work. But there a are a few things about your list.

Pelini was not that bad. What made him bad to everyone outside of the state of Nebraska is ignorance or the lack of care that people have for the state. Point is the nation got Nebraska’s side of it, and not pelini’s. I lived in Nebraska for 6 years and was shocked at the level of access that the average fan has in the program. Pelini never had less than 9 wins in a season.

Frost will be gone in 5 years imo

O’Brien wasn’t a bad hire at all.

CLK wasn’t a bad hire either. USCW was under Alabama like sanctions. He did a pretty decent job all considering. He had an idiot for an AD that caved to fan outrage over lofty expectations. I don’t know if he would’ve been great post sanctions but to judge him sanctions period is a bit unfair. And before you say “ well what about Shula”. Kiffin is worlds better of an offensive mind than Shula, and it’s not even debatable. Kiffin made Crompton a competent qb, Shula had one of the most nfl ready QBs at Alabama but the end zone was effectively a lava pit.

Tom Osborne’s success was due to Nebraska’s scholarship loophole. He was an average at best coach. Yeah you can say 3 out of 4 years a NC, but when you have 91 extra scholarships for instate athletes added with 25 national scholarships it’s kinda easy to win. The real crime is he didn’t win more with that obvious advantage.
 
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TomFromBama

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Meh. there are a few things

Pelini was not that bad. What made him bad to everyone outside of the state of Nebraska is ignorance or the lack of care that people have for the state. Point is the nation got Nebraska’s side of it, and not pelini’s. I lived in Nebraska for 6 years and was shocked at the level of access that the average fan has in the program. Pelini never had less than 9 wins in a season.

Frost will be gone in 5 years imo

O’Brien wasn’t a bad hire at all.

CLK wasn’t a bad hire either. USCW was under Alabama like sanctions. He did a pretty decent job all considering. He had an idiot for an AD that caved to fan outrage over lofty expectations. I don’t know if he would’ve been great post sanctions but to judge him sanctions period is a bit unfair. And before you say “ well what about Shula”. Kiffin is worlds better of an offensive mind than Shula, and it’s not even debatable. Kiffin made Crompton a competent qb, Shula had one of the most nfl ready QBs at Alabama but the end zone was effectively a lava pit.

Tom Osborne’s success was due to Nebraska’s scholarship loophole. He was an average at best coach. Yeah you can say 3 out of 4 years a NC, but when you have 91 extra scholarships for instate athletes added with 25 national scholarships it’s kinda easy to win. The real crime is he didn’t win more with that obvious advantage.
Oh LORD is this funny!!!

Pelini wasn't that "Bad"? Ok, I mostly agree - he'd have been a "Rock Star" at Kansas or Texas Tech. But the fact is Pelini didn't match the record of Solich, a guy the Knebraska fans called a bust and demanded they fire.... So "it is what it is"......

Yea, never won less than nine games... NOR won more than 10, and never LOST fewer than 4 games in any season he finished at Nebr.!! ;)

I don't really have a strong opinion either way on Frost. I'm no fan of Knebraska, but "IMO" CFB would be more interesting if another Blue Blood could return to the national stage.

I'll give you O'Brien - but at the same time, would you accept an Alabama coach - even in a bad situation - who won less than 63% of his games?
yea, I didn't think so! ;)

USCw's 2009 sanctions were actually Worse than our 2002 sanctions - the thing is, USCw didn't AMPLIFY their sanctions the way Alabama did, by
(A) effectively losing almost a full year of recruiting by allowing Dumbose to hang on in 2000 when he lost the team,
then
(B) hiring a guy unable and/or unwilling to recruit and (for the most part) losing another two classes,
then
(C) replacing the second guy with an alcoholic who stayed at Washington St until January, barely recruited at all for UA, then flamed out before he'd been on campus 4 months - in effect costing us a FOURTH consecutive recruiting class.
According to 24/7 sports, we didn't have a Top-20 class from 2000 (the first year they rank) until 2005 - and some of those classes didn't make the Top-FORTY!! :eek:

USCw's "investigation" never seriously affected their recruiting (#2 class in 2009, #3 in 2010 and again in 2011). So Lane took over a NC Contender quality team, with NC Contender Depth - and pretty much had that level of talent on the field his whole time there. AND maybe that's why their "idiot" AD (Hall-of-Fame'er Pat Haden) wasn't too happy with 7-6 in 2012, and a 0-2 Conference start in 2013.

We can debate which of Shula's Alabama teams was the least crippled by sanctions - but it's beyond dispute that Lane's WORST USCw roster was still VASTLY better than Shula's BEST Alabama roster. (and yes, some of that IS Shula's fault).

IMO It's pretty doubtful that Lane Kiffin, for all his great offensive prowess, could have gotten to 10-0 and a #2 national ranking in November, even in the weak PAC-12, with the paper-thin roster Shula had in 2005.

We could debate whether Brodie Croyle was as "NFL ready" (whatever that means) as Matt Barkley. Barkley was drafted #98, Brodie #85 - I'm not sure the NFL saw either of them as significantly better than the other?

The supposed "Scholarship Loophole" at Knebraska is and was almost completely a MYTH, spread by jealous haters. - The same kind of toads who have cried for the past 50+ years that Bryant "Cheated" by __________ (fill in your favorite myth).

AND even if it WAS a real thing - how many Div-1 players come out of NEBRASKA every year???? I mean, I could buy the story if we were talking about LA, or GA, or FL, or CA - but Nebraska?
Yea - not so much.
In fact, there are fewer NFL players from Nebraska than from Minnesota OR Colorado! - People argue that Tennessee can never win big again due to lack of local talent, right? The state of TN puts almost THREE TIMES as many guys into the NFL as the State of Nebraska!!! :eek:

But riddle me this? If it's such a big advantage, then why have all subsequent Nebr. coaches failed to win NC's with that BIG advantage? Why didn't Pelini win at least a couple? Or even see an 11 win season...... even once?
(Spoiler - it's really no advantage at all.)

Osborne's career Winning percentage of 0.836 would put him in the TOP-5 among active coaches today - and ahead of a certain guy we all know and love. :eek: ...... Frankly, any school that doesn't have Nick Saban as coach would be pretty happy to have a guy as "average" at Tom Osborne!!!!! LOL!!!!! :biggrin:

But, hey! Thanks for playing, all the same!!!! :)
 

81usaf92

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Oh LORD is this funny!!!

Pelini wasn't that "Bad"? Ok, I mostly agree - he'd have been a "Rock Star" at Kansas or Texas Tech. But the fact is Pelini didn't match the record of Solich, a guy the Knebraska fans called a bust and demanded they fire.... So "it is what it is"......

Yea, never won less than nine games... NOR won more than 10, and never LOST fewer than 4 games in any season he finished at Nebr.!! ;)

I don't really have a strong opinion either way on Frost. I'm no fan of Knebraska, but "IMO" CFB would be more interesting if another Blue Blood could return to the national stage.

I'll give you O'Brien - but at the same time, would you accept an Alabama coach - even in a bad situation - who won less than 63% of his games?
yea, I didn't think so! ;)

USCw's 2009 sanctions were actually Worse than our 2002 sanctions - the thing is, USCw didn't AMPLIFY their sanctions the way Alabama did, by
(A) effectively losing almost a full year of recruiting by allowing Dumbose to hang on in 2000 when he lost the team,
then
(B) hiring a guy unable and/or unwilling to recruit and (for the most part) losing another two classes,
then
(C) replacing the second guy with an alcoholic who stayed at Washington St until January, barely recruited at all for UA, then flamed out before he'd been on campus 4 months - in effect costing us a FOURTH consecutive recruiting class.
According to 24/7 sports, we didn't have a Top-20 class from 2000 (the first year they rank) until 2005 - and some of those classes didn't make the Top-FORTY!! :eek:

USCw's "investigation" never seriously affected their recruiting (#2 class in 2009, #3 in 2010 and again in 2011). So Lane took over a NC Contender quality team, with NC Contender Depth - and pretty much had that level of talent on the field his whole time there. AND maybe that's why their "idiot" AD (Hall-of-Fame'er Pat Haden) wasn't too happy with 7-6 in 2012, and a 0-2 Conference start in 2013.

We can debate which of Shula's Alabama teams was the least crippled by sanctions - but it's beyond dispute that Lane's WORST USCw roster was still VASTLY better than Shula's BEST Alabama roster. (and yes, some of that IS Shula's fault).

IMO It's pretty doubtful that Lane Kiffin, for all his great offensive prowess, could have gotten to 10-0 and a #2 national ranking in November, even in the weak PAC-12, with the paper-thin roster Shula had in 2005.

We could debate whether Brodie Croyle was as "NFL ready" (whatever that means) as Matt Barkley. Barkley was drafted #98, Brodie #85 - I'm not sure the NFL saw either of them as significantly better than the other?

The supposed "Scholarship Loophole" at Knebraska is and was almost completely a MYTH, spread by jealous haters. - The same kind of toads who have cried for the past 50+ years that Bryant "Cheated" by __________ (fill in your favorite myth).

AND even if it WAS a real thing - how many Div-1 players come out of NEBRASKA every year???? I mean, I could buy the story if we were talking about LA, or GA, or FL, or CA - but Nebraska?
Yea - not so much.
In fact, there are fewer NFL players from Nebraska than from Minnesota OR Colorado! - People argue that Tennessee can never win big again due to lack of local talent, right? The state of TN puts almost THREE TIMES as many guys into the NFL as the State of Nebraska!!! :eek:

But riddle me this? If it's such a big advantage, then why have all subsequent Nebr. coaches failed to win NC's with that BIG advantage? Why didn't Pelini win at least a couple? Or even see an 11 win season...... even once?
(Spoiler - it's really no advantage at all.)

Osborne's career Winning percentage of 0.836 would put him in the TOP-5 among active coaches today - and ahead of a certain guy we all know and love. :eek: ...... Frankly, any school that doesn't have Nick Saban as coach would be pretty happy to have a guy as "average" at Tom Osborne!!!!! LOL!!!!! :biggrin:

But, hey! Thanks for playing, all the same!!!! :)
Nebraska had a ridiculous recruiting advantage until the NCAA finally stopped it. They had a policy statewide that each county could provide an athletic scholarship to UNL and UNO. That is 93 athletic scholarships. The theory was each county would have a player play at a sport for UNL and UNO. But here is the beef.... Omaha and Lincoln account for 80% of the population of Nebraska and are within a 45 minute radius of one another. Osbourne finally got wise to the idea that after 1983 the game had changed and corn fed bows weren’t going to beat Florida finesse players. So he started to use all of those 93 Nebraska scholarships on Omaha and Lincoln players, and would hide that the vast majority of them were football players by signing them as baseball, basketball, and etc players. All the while using the 25 NCAA allotted to get Texas, Missouri, and Florida players. He was basically doing what LSU baseball does with lottery scholarships. It’s no coincidence that Nebraska started hitting mediocrity after the NCAA basically said that the practice is unethical and against the rules.

Nebraska now has to use their 25 scholarships on Instate AND National recruits. They can’t just use them on National because they can lose the few instate recruits that they desperately need. Tennessee and Nebraska will probably never see a good run in the next 40 years and 9-10 wins are probably the best they can hope for in low talent per capita states.
 
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