Heisman projection

FriendlyIrish

3rd Team
Nov 22, 2012
217
0
0
Manti Te'o is not even the best LB in the country. Jarvis Jones is. So if wins don't matter for anyone but the QB, the Heisman should go to Jones or Clowney. I can seriously name 10 players in the country I would rather have over Te'o on my team. You plug CJ Mosely into Te'os role on ND, they are just as good, if not better than what they are now. MLB just do not change a teams game plan. Jarvis Jones is a game plan changer, Clowney is a game plan changer, Dee Milliner is a game plan changer. Te'o is just a hey if they tip the ball he might catch it player. He makes tackles, but not enough for the hype he has received.

Luke Kuechly had 191 tackles his senior year, 3 INTs, and a TD, didn't go to NYC for the Heisman. Explain what Te'o has done that is special other than be a good leader for ND?
Then why did Kiffin, Shaw, Hoke AND Stoops say Te'o was the only defensive guy all year that they specifically schemed around?!? Are they lying? Why did they say they specifically isolated him, put an extra blocker on him, and made checks at the line for a play AWAY from him every time?

I'm not saying Jones or Clowney aren't amazing. Clowney will be better in the NFL. But 7 picks is absurd.
 

crmsntd91

1st Team
Sep 30, 2010
471
0
0
Not trying to be rude or anything of that sort, because it is a tragedy. But the bottom of your post is more of the reason for the hype than the top.

Charles Woodson
- 42 tackles (4 for losses)
- 1 sack
- 8 INT's
- 11 REC/283 Yds/2 TD's
- 3 Rush/15 YDS/ 1 TD
- 11-0 Team Record

Manti Teo
- 103 Tackles (5.5 for losses)
- 1.5 Sacks
- 7 INT's
- 2 Fumble Recoveries, 2 Forced Fumbles
- 12-0 Team Record, number one scoring defense

Other things to note:

Manti had at least 3 hurries on a QB that actually resulted in interceptions.
Our defense has been on the field almost less than any other team in the nation (can't find the stat but it does exist).
On the night his grandmother and girlfriend died on the same day, he had 11 tackles, 1 sack, and a recovered fumble at MSU.
On the night his grandmother and girlfriend were buried, he had 10 tackles, .5 sack, one cause fumble and two interceptions.
 

crmsntd91

1st Team
Sep 30, 2010
471
0
0
When a person from the media ask you about a talented player what is the coach supposed to say? Nah, we didn't gameplan for him, he sucks big time. NO. I didn't say you don't make note of him on the field, but he doesn't alter your style of play. Jarvis Jones and Clowney do. We had an extra blocker on Jarvis every single play. People have to do the same with Clowney. Te'o just doesn't demand that respect, sorry.

Then why did Kiffin, Shaw, Hoke AND Stoops say Te'o was the only defensive guy all year that they specifically schemed around?!? Are they lying? Why did they say they specifically isolated him, put an extra blocker on him, and made checks at the line for a play AWAY from him every time?

I'm not saying Jones or Clowney aren't amazing. Clowney will be better in the NFL. But 7 picks is absurd.
 

FriendlyIrish

3rd Team
Nov 22, 2012
217
0
0
Not trying to be rude or anything of that sort, because it is a tragedy. But the bottom of your post is more of the reason for the hype than the top.
Charles Woodson
- 42 tackles (4 for losses)
- 1 sack
- 8 INT's
- 11 REC/283 Yds/2 TD's
- 3 Rush/15 YDS/ 1 TD
- 11-0 Team Record

Manti Teo
- 103 Tackles (5.5 for losses)
- 1.5 Sacks
- 7 INT's
- 2 Fumble Recoveries, 2 Forced Fumbles
- 12-0 Team Record, number one scoring defense

Other things to note:

Manti had at least 3 hurries on a QB that actually resulted in interceptions.
Our defense has been on the field almost less than any other team in the nation (can't find the stat but it does exist).
Fixed it for you :cool2:
 

crmsntd91

1st Team
Sep 30, 2010
471
0
0
Haha nice!

I didn't think that Charles Woodson deserved it that year either. I thought both Ricky Williams and Peyton Manning were better players than Charles Woodson.

To fix your stats though, Charles Woodson did have a punt return for a TD that season as well.

Fixed it for you :cool2:
 

FriendlyIrish

3rd Team
Nov 22, 2012
217
0
0
Haha nice!

I didn't think that Charles Woodson deserved it that year either. I thought both Ricky Williams and Peyton Manning were better players than Charles Woodson.

To fix your stats though, Charles Woodson did have a punt return for a TD that season as well.
LOL, well if you say you don't think Charles Woodson should have won that defeats my argument!!! Dam you!
 

FriendlyIrish

3rd Team
Nov 22, 2012
217
0
0
When a person from the media ask you about a talented player what is the coach supposed to say? Nah, we didn't gameplan for him, he sucks big time. NO. I didn't say you don't make note of him on the field, but he doesn't alter your style of play. Jarvis Jones and Clowney do. We had an extra blocker on Jarvis every single play. People have to do the same with Clowney. Te'o just doesn't demand that respect, sorry.
Of course. But Shaw said (even with his great defense), something along the lines of "it is rare that your entire offense has to scheme around one player."

When people say that Manti is good, not great, I immediately think that they are completely stupid. Why? Because I think that NFL draft scouts and NFL GM's are smart. Would they draft a kid in the top ten simply because he is good, plays for Notre Dame, and has a good story (jokes aside about ND)? No. They wouldn't.
 

RedStar

Hall of Fame
Jan 28, 2005
9,628
0
0
39
The Shoals, AL
Manti Te'o - ND LB: 101 tackles, 1.5 sacks, 7 INT's, 4 PD's
Phillip Steward - Houston LB: 127 tackles, 11.0 sacks, 3 INT's, 3 PD's

One of these will finish 2nd in the Heisman race. The other you've never heard of.

Te'o is a good player, but the only stat that pops out is his INT's. His tackles are average, his sacks are well below average, his PD's are average. He has a fun name to say and he plays for the #1 team in the country.

Case closed.
 

BillDee

3rd Team
Sep 7, 2010
236
0
0
Athens, GA
www.BillDunston.com
OK, so the young man's grandmother and girlfriend died and were buried. That's tragic and makes a great story, but just stop already. I'm sure other college football players lost family members and/or girlfriends, but I don't see their losses trotted out ad nauseum every time their names are mentioned.
 

FriendlyIrish

3rd Team
Nov 22, 2012
217
0
0
Manti Te'o - ND LB: 101 tackles, 1.5 sacks, 7 INT's, 4 PD's
Phillip Steward - Houston LB: 127 tackles, 11.0 sacks, 3 INT's, 3 PD's

One of these will finish 2nd in the Heisman race. The other you've never heard of.

Te'o is a good player, but the only stat that pops out is his INT's. His tackles are average, his sacks are well below average, his PD's are average. He has a fun name to say and he plays for the #1 team in the country.

Case closed.
Hahahahahahahha @ case closed.

Johnny Manziel Stats: 273 Completions, 68.3 completion %, 3419 yards, 24 TDs, 8 Interceptions
Case Keenum Stats: 428 completions, 71.0 completion %, 5631 yards, 48 touchdowns, 5 interceptions.

One of these players is going to win the heisman. The other didn't get an invite.
 

RedStar

Hall of Fame
Jan 28, 2005
9,628
0
0
39
The Shoals, AL
Of course. But Shaw said (even with his great defense), something along the lines of "it is rare that your entire offense has to scheme around one player."

When people say that Manti is good, not great, I immediately think that they are completely stupid. Why? Because I think that NFL draft scouts and NFL GM's are smart. Would they draft a kid in the top ten simply because he is good, plays for Notre Dame, and has a good story (jokes aside about ND)? No. They wouldn't.
Defensive players I'd take above Te'o in the NFL draft:

Jarvis Jones
Jadaveon Clowney
Dee Milliner
Kevin Minter
Eric Reid
Barkavious Mingo
Sam Montgomery
Johnthan Banks
CJ Moseley

... and that's just off the top of my head. No one's saying he's a bad player. He's just not as good as the hype he's getting.

He's won 6 postseason awards this season, more than any player in CFB history. Unless you think he's the best defender to ever play the game, then there's no other conclusion to jump to other than the fact that he's over-hyped. He doesn't deserve to be the single most decorated player in CFB history. That's a fact.
 

harleyspoon

BamaNation Citizen
Nov 12, 2012
34
0
0
Would Manti have even been invited to New York if Notre Dame had two losses like the Aggies? If a person honestly thinks the answer to that question is "yes"..then I can respect that persons thinking he deserves the Heisman. If their answer to that question is "no"...then I cannot understand how that person would think he deserves the Heisman.

Friendly Irish: Might want to also include the rushing stats in your comparison. I think that same year Keenum scored three TD's on 57 rushes for a total of 35 yards.
 
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crmsntd91

1st Team
Sep 30, 2010
471
0
0
I am also not a fan of the Heisman period, or at least what it has become.

It has become a hype award. Not Manti's fault, he is deserving, of some, of the awards he has received. To me though, the most outstanding players I have watched all season is Jarvis Jones and Clowney. They are simply the most dominating players in CFB. Due to their teams not being in the NC they aren't receiving the love they should.

Johnny Manziel is the most exciting player to watch and that is why he is in NYC. Colin Klein because he led the underdog KSt to the brink of a National Championship game. Te'o because he is simply the best player on the best team. I actually think Tuitt is a better player but whatever.

At the end of the day I just don't think any of the guys in NYC should win the Heisman, but if one does it should be Manziel for what he has done as a Freshman in the SEC.

LOL, well if you say you don't think Charles Woodson should have won that defeats my argument!!! Dam you!
 

crmsntd91

1st Team
Sep 30, 2010
471
0
0
You act like they haven't been wrong thousands of times before. He may be great, but he isn't putting up "great" numbers.

Of course. But Shaw said (even with his great defense), something along the lines of "it is rare that your entire offense has to scheme around one player."

When people say that Manti is good, not great, I immediately think that they are completely stupid. Why? Because I think that NFL draft scouts and NFL GM's are smart. Would they draft a kid in the top ten simply because he is good, plays for Notre Dame, and has a good story (jokes aside about ND)? No. They wouldn't.
 

FriendlyIrish

3rd Team
Nov 22, 2012
217
0
0
Defensive players I'd take above Te'o in the NFL draft:

Jarvis Jones
Jadaveon Clowney
Dee Milliner
Kevin Minter
Eric Reid
Barkavious Mingo
Sam Montgomery
Johnthan Banks
CJ Moseley

... and that's just off the top of my head. No one's saying he's a bad player. He's just not as good as the hype he's getting.
Dude, you should take this stuff to NFL Gm's. Seriously.
 

RedStar

Hall of Fame
Jan 28, 2005
9,628
0
0
39
The Shoals, AL
Hahahahahahahha @ case closed.

Johnny Manziel Stats: 273 Completions, 68.3 completion %, 3419 yards, 24 TDs, 8 Interceptions
Case Keenum Stats: 428 completions, 71.0 completion %, 5631 yards, 48 touchdowns, 5 interceptions.

One of these players is going to win the heisman. The other didn't get an invite.
Believe it or not, you're backing up my point. The hype machine is greater than any single player. I don't think Keenum necessarily deserved to win last year, but he definitely deserved to be a finalist.

FWIW, it's also a down year for Heisman finalists. I don't think any of this years finalists would have been invited to last years ceremony.
 

FriendlyIrish

3rd Team
Nov 22, 2012
217
0
0
I am also not a fan of the Heisman period, or at least what it has become.

It has become a hype award. Not Manti's fault, he is deserving, of some, of the awards he has received. To me though, the most outstanding players I have watched all season is Jarvis Jones and Clowney. They are simply the most dominating players in CFB. Due to their teams not being in the NC they aren't receiving the love they should.

Johnny Manziel is the most exciting player to watch and that is why he is in NYC. Colin Klein because he led the underdog KSt to the brink of a National Championship game. Te'o because he is simply the best player on the best team. I actually think Tuitt is a better player but whatever.

At the end of the day I just don't think any of the guys in NYC should win the Heisman, but if one does it should be Manziel for what he has done as a Freshman in the SEC.
And I completely agree with you. It is a hype award. In my heart of hearts, I honestly would not be upset at all if Manziel won it. I would not say he was overrated, and I would not say he didn't deserve it. I think he definitely deserves it.

I just don't think Manti is just a "good" player.
 

RedStar

Hall of Fame
Jan 28, 2005
9,628
0
0
39
The Shoals, AL
Dude, you should take this stuff to NFL Gm's. Seriously.
You skipped over this, so I'll ask again:

He's won 6 postseason awards this season, more than any player in CFB history. Unless you think he's the best defender to ever play the game, then there's no other conclusion to jump to other than the fact that he's over-hyped. He doesn't deserve to be the single most decorated player in CFB history. That's a fact.

Is he over-hyped, or does he deserve to be the single most decorated player in CFB history?
 

FriendlyIrish

3rd Team
Nov 22, 2012
217
0
0
Believe it or not, you're backing up my point. The hype machine is greater than any single player. I don't think Keenum necessarily deserved to win last year, but he definitely deserved to be a finalist.

FWIW, it's also a down year for Heisman finalists. I don't think any of this years finalists would have been invited to last years ceremon
And I agree. I said this in another post.
 

FriendlyIrish

3rd Team
Nov 22, 2012
217
0
0
You skipped over this, so I'll ask again:

He's won 6 postseason awards this season, more than any player in CFB history. Unless you think he's the best defender to ever play the game, then there's no other conclusion to jump to other than the fact that he's over-hyped. He doesn't deserve to be the single most decorated player in CFB history. That's a fact.

Is he over-hyped, or does he deserve to be the single most decorated player in CFB history?
I am not arguing at whether or not he is over-hyped. I never once said he "deserved the attention he was getting."

My point is that he is not just a "good" player. My point is also that NFL GM's are smarter than any of us, and the fact he is going to be a top ten is proof enough he is one of the best defensive players in college football.

There are intangibles within that team me, you, or any other casual observer cannot possibly imagine. Tuitt is sick, and because we have Louis Nix in the mix it has helped people realize how good Tuitt is also.
 

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