What's your top 10 list of active college football coaches?
- Thread starter saturdaysarebet
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Once again we have what I call "the Alabama vision problem." Too many Alabama fans thinking, "Well, if he hasn't won X hundred championships, he ain't no good."
What did Nick Saban win at Michigan St? And why did he leave there? Oh yeah - his own words - because even he couldn't win a national championship in East Lansing (so goes the tell of Saban and Mark Emmert both).
So I'm forced to consider scenarios like: "If I take coach X and put him on team Y, does he improve that team's standing?"
There are a few coaches it's too soon to evaluate. Lincoln Riley might well be the next Steve Spurrier - but he's just as likely at this point to be the next Dennis Erickson, a guy who could do a bunch with Jimmy Johnson's players and couldn't do diddly anywhere else. Same goes for Tom Herman. FTR - I think both are going to do just fine.
So.....the top ten.
1) Nick Saban
2) Dabo Swinney
Followed by a Grand Canyon of distance.....
3) Dan Mullen - it's very simple: how many other coaches in CFB could take MISSISSIPPI STATE to the top spot and keep them there for a month? Keep in mind he's the #2 program in the state and doesn't get the superstar recruits (oh yeah.....and he pulled this while Ole Miss was bankrolling Mo Greene to send them every burner receiver they could afford). He couldn't beat Saban - but he beat pretty much everyone else multiple times and with a talent gap I expect to narrow in Florida.
4) Jimbo - we'll wait and see if his title was a fluke or if he's the real deal.
The next four you could flip around in almost any order.
5) Paul Chryst - almost the Gene Stallings of Big Ten football with a lesser defense. He's not Urban Meyer, but the guy just flat out wins to the tune of .663. His team is not flashy just steady but consider that in recent years he's turned in a solid performance losing to Alabama and beaten Les Miles's LSU (2016). He coached the Pitt team that took Notre Dame to three overtimes in 2012, and he's won two division titles, lost 2 B1G titles to substantially better teams by one score each time, and he's 4-0 in bowls, including a thumping of Mark Richt's #11 Miami team.
6) Chris Peterson - he's not likely to win a national title unless he gets a little bit of luck......say goes unbeaten, draws the easy game in the early round, and the two behemoths take it out of each other and enable him to beat a weakened foe. But he's a very good and solid coach.
7) Kirby Smart - question is still whether he's capable of making in-game decisions that don't involve using that 8 ball with water and following it's advice when it tells him to do something incredibly stupid.
8) Mark Dantonio - I guess one could argue he's better than Chryst as his winning pct is higher. On the other hand, he's the Don Nehlen of CFB, the guy who can't put together two solid seasons in a row. Sure, he did in 2010 and 2011......when Ohio St was in the midst of scandal and Michigan was in the midst of Rich Rodriguez to Brady Hoke. It was more of a case of other teams imploding than any excellence Mark did. Still, he's a solid coach. Dantonio vs Chryst? Well, they've played once and Chryst's team won, 30-6.
9) David Shaw - the problem with Shaw is that while he manages to put together a solid team that was able to slow down Oregon a time or two, he also manages to blow 1-2 games per year where he has the greater talent. He will move up this list if he can rectify that.
10) James Franklin - jury is still out, but he seems to be a decent enough coach.
Best up and comers
Mario Cristobal
Lincoln Riley
Tom Herman
Jeremy Pruitt
Clay Helton
Overrated - Kevin Sumlin, Mike Gundy, Mark Stoops
David Shaw has only beaten 1 Top 10, and 3 ranked opponents in the last 3 years. I think it’s pretty obvious that after Harbaugh’s recruits left Shaw has been playing with borrowed time in a weak division waiting for someone like Peterson to take control.
1. Saban, of course
2. Peterson
3. Dabo
4. Shaw
5. Patterson
6. Jimbo
7. Jeff Monken
8. L. Riley
9. B. Harsen
10. F. Solich
2. Peterson
3. Dabo
4. Shaw
5. Patterson
6. Jimbo
7. Jeff Monken
8. L. Riley
9. B. Harsen
10. F. Solich
LSU fired him for losing to Alabama. Orgeron will also get fired for losing to Saban, no matter how many other games he wins.
What Peterson does with his level of talent. Kudos to Dabo for his recruiting, though. It is very close in my opinion, and I almost took the cop-out and made then 2A and 2B. Bottom line, if Saban announced his retirement today, I'd rather have Peterson. Just a personal choice though.
Shaw took over in 2011, meaning we can use the "but he had the other guy's players for 11, 12, and 13.
Since then, he's gone 48-19 (.716)
In 2015 (four years ago), he went 5-0 against ranked teams and 3-0 against the top ten teams. In fact, he had a substantially easier time with Iowa than did Mark Dantonio.
Yes, he's 10-12 against ranked teams.
But there's another variable: Stanford's academic standards are substantially more than most schools, which automatically puts him at a disadvantage.
Not to sound like I'm beating a dead horse here, but...
Gus Malzahn 2014-2018: 41-26, 0 SEC titles, 1 division title, 11-17 vs ranked teams
David Shaw 2014-2018: 48-19, 1 Pac 10 title, 2 division titles, 10-12 vs ranked teams
Now.....put Malzahn and his style of high school garbage at Stanford with the limitations Shaw has......and put Shaw at Auburn......and tell me who has the better record and is the better football coach?
Yes, I've excluded 2013 for two reasons. First, to set aside the "but Harbaugh" argument but then again Malzahn's 2013 team as seniors won a national title as freshmen, so who exactly inherited the better squad? Secondly, the distance isn't so far as BOTH Shaw AND Malzahn were both OCs on what was basically the team they inherited.
So if we include 2013.....
Malzahn is 53-27, Shaw is 59-22 and each adds a conference title and a bowl game loss (although Malzahn gets credit for a national title appearance).
I'm not as averse as a lot of Tide fans to Gus, I like his enthusiasm. I also think he's another Lincoln Riley type coach (at least so far) who coaches "defense optional."
you're correct, but so is B1G. The 2016 loss to Auburn was "really" about the 2015 loss to Alabama....and 2014......and 2013......and 2012........and 2011........
Miles was by the seat of his pants, true, and he'd already blown a few with that nonsense (he blew 09 Ole Miss and got a reprieve against the Vols in 10 only because his chaos led to too many men on the field for Tennessee).
Yes but here is the kicker. Malzahn plays in a conference and subdivision that is far more challenging than Stanford. Stanford only has to win one hard game to get into the PAC 12 championship but that game is nowhere near the two games that await Gus at the end of the year even if you reduce it to one. Yes Shaw has ND but that game doesn’t really matter.
But the second kicker is that Shaw’s protege is already showing that his style probably doesn’t translate well in the SEC. He is practically a mirror image of a shaw team without California talent going against PAC 12 talent. Vandy is under the same limitations as Stanford but is scratching for wins. Franklin was there for 3 years and won 9 games back to back years.
Point is Patterson and Shaw are probably way overvalued based off their early success against a weakened subdivision or conference. Gus is facing monsters every week. Losing to a LSU and Miss st is a lot different than losing a game to Cal.
Far more challenging, I doubt. More challenging? Indisputable.
But again NONE of those schools have the academic admissions requirements that Stanford does. Some in his own league have similar ones (insert USC Lori Loughlin scandal joke here).
But Shaw pulling off what he has done is just a step below if the Air Force Academy was in the hunt.
The problem is Gus has to win those but - for the most part - he doesn't. If the argument is "Malzahn has to play X and lose to them," I'm sure Shaw could lose to both UGA and Alabama as well.
Could he beat them? Probably if given time.
Most of Nick Saban's proteges have flopped as well. It doesn't prove much of anything.
Yes, and he also had the good fortune to be in the SEC East when he got to replace a West team with Missouri (one win), Urban Meyer left (one win), Derek Dooley and Butch Jones were at Tennessee (two wins), caught Auburn in the 3-9 down draft of 2012 (who replaced Alabama on their schedule that year) for another win, and caught UGA in Richt's twilight.
I'm not saying he's not a good coach, but Franklin damn near lost to App State this last year with a team that was supposed to be a national title contender.
A few posts ago the argument was "But Harbaugh's players." Now that that argument has been shown to be less than 100% accurate it's "but Stanford doesn't play anybody."
I don't disagree with the fact that the SEC is a tougher conference year-in and year-out than the Pac 12.
But that's not the REAL question.
Could David Shaw come to Auburn and win eight games a year like Malzahn does?
Yup. Could Malzahn go and win 9 or 10 in the Pac 12 like Shaw does WITHE THE LIMITATIONS? I don't think so.
Uh, Cal hasn't beaten Stanford in football since 2009 when Jim Harbaugh's players lost to them.
Top 10 Right Now (How Great they are Currently)
1A. Nick Saban
1B. Dabo Swinney
3. Lincoln Riley
4. Kirby Smart
5. Jimbo Fisher
6. Chris Peterson
7. Chip Kelly
8. Gary Patterson
9. Dan Mullen
10.David Shaw
1A. Nick Saban
1B. Dabo Swinney
3. Lincoln Riley
4. Kirby Smart
5. Jimbo Fisher
6. Chris Peterson
7. Chip Kelly
8. Gary Patterson
9. Dan Mullen
10.David Shaw
Actually it’s both “ he is living off Harbaugh” and “plays in a weak subdivision”.
For the 1st: it’s indisputable that his first 3 years are his best. He went 3 straight big Bowls and had two PAC 12 championships. Since then 1 PAC 12 championships and 1 Rose Bowl appearance.
Weak subdivision: In the past three years Peterson has achieved 3 straight NY6 bowl appearances without tapping into Sarks recruits. I mean Washington is about just a little better than The Mississippis I guess but they are pretty much dominating the PAC 12. I mean you really don’t have USC, UCLA, and Oregon to worry about at the same time anymore. It’s now beat Washington and you are in very good shape as long as you don’t find away to blow a game against USC.
But here is another thing, Auburn and Stanford had a common opponent last year... even if you want to make the argument that it’s 1st game vs late season it still doesn’t answer why the three weeks prior to playoffs them that both Cal and Oregon beat Washington but David Shaw couldn’t.
As for losing to Cal... fine I got Washington mixed up with Stanford, but I’ll replace it with something better. “ losing to either SAN DIEGO ST or Utah isn’t the same as losing to Arkansas or Tennessee”. Gus’s 2 worst losses are 2015 vs Arkansas and 2018 vs Tennessee, I don’t think either of them would lose to 2014 Utah or 2017 SDSU. Even if you try to say UCF, UCF was light years better than that team that beat Shaw in San Diego.
Look - we don't see eye to eye on this and that's fine.
I'm not gonna argue who's the tenth best coach in CFB...
:O
Outside the top 5 it’s really a load of average to slightly above coaches. So I guess it really doesn’t matter as long as you get 4 out of 5 of the top 5 right.
1) Nick Saban
- The man is truly one of, if not the greatest coach in college football. I base this a lot on the fact that he doesn't lean on the coaches around him, but he builds the coaches around him. How many different offensive and defensive coordinators has Saban had??? It seems that it does not matter what coaches are on his staff or how many players went to the draft the previous year... the team is just as deadly if not more deadly the next year. Could Dabo say the same?
2) Dabo
- I give him this primarily due to accomplishments (national titles and conference titles). However, Clemson plays in a very weak conference and Dabo has a staff that does not have much change from year to year. Put Dabo in the SEC with the revolving coaching door that Saban has had and I don't think he would look nearly as impressive
3) Kirby
- Yes, I am biased here. Kirby beat Lincoln Riley. Kirby also only has 3 seasons of head coaching experience. What other coaches have been as successful as Kirby in their first 3 years? We will gauge more this year by seeing how he does with a new DC and new OC. In my opinion it is too early to tell, but its hard to say that Kirby isn't somewhere on the top 10 list at this time.
4) Lincoln Riley
-extremely impressive for his age and his number of years as a head coach. If he can get a defense figured out, they will be dangerous.
5) Jimbo Fisher
- Time will tell if he was a one hit wonder or not. He surely left FSU in shambles, but for a while there FSU was a pretty good team. He gets bumped up the board for the national championship
6) Tom Herman
-Texas was 6-7, 5-7, and 5-7 before Herman arrived and went 7-6 and then 10-4. Wins over Oklahoma and Georgia in a second year at Texas are impressive
7) Chris Peterson
- sure, he does a great job with what he has... but he also plays against PAC 12 schools and has a bowl record of 6-6
8) Chip Kelly
- how quickly and if he can turn around UCLA will tell us a lot
9) David Shaw
10) Scott Frost
You could make arguments for any of them. Saban and Dabo are surely at the top, but I still insist that Dabo would not be nearly as successful in the SEC with a revolving coaching door like Saban has had.
- The man is truly one of, if not the greatest coach in college football. I base this a lot on the fact that he doesn't lean on the coaches around him, but he builds the coaches around him. How many different offensive and defensive coordinators has Saban had??? It seems that it does not matter what coaches are on his staff or how many players went to the draft the previous year... the team is just as deadly if not more deadly the next year. Could Dabo say the same?
2) Dabo
- I give him this primarily due to accomplishments (national titles and conference titles). However, Clemson plays in a very weak conference and Dabo has a staff that does not have much change from year to year. Put Dabo in the SEC with the revolving coaching door that Saban has had and I don't think he would look nearly as impressive
3) Kirby
- Yes, I am biased here. Kirby beat Lincoln Riley. Kirby also only has 3 seasons of head coaching experience. What other coaches have been as successful as Kirby in their first 3 years? We will gauge more this year by seeing how he does with a new DC and new OC. In my opinion it is too early to tell, but its hard to say that Kirby isn't somewhere on the top 10 list at this time.
4) Lincoln Riley
-extremely impressive for his age and his number of years as a head coach. If he can get a defense figured out, they will be dangerous.
5) Jimbo Fisher
- Time will tell if he was a one hit wonder or not. He surely left FSU in shambles, but for a while there FSU was a pretty good team. He gets bumped up the board for the national championship
6) Tom Herman
-Texas was 6-7, 5-7, and 5-7 before Herman arrived and went 7-6 and then 10-4. Wins over Oklahoma and Georgia in a second year at Texas are impressive
7) Chris Peterson
- sure, he does a great job with what he has... but he also plays against PAC 12 schools and has a bowl record of 6-6
8) Chip Kelly
- how quickly and if he can turn around UCLA will tell us a lot
9) David Shaw
10) Scott Frost
You could make arguments for any of them. Saban and Dabo are surely at the top, but I still insist that Dabo would not be nearly as successful in the SEC with a revolving coaching door like Saban has had.
- Nick Saban
- Dabo Swinney
- Chris Peterson
- Jimbo Fisher
- Bryan Harsin
- Pat Fitzgerald
- Dan Mullen
- David Shaw
- Mark D'antonio
- Troy Calhoun
1. Saban
2. Dabo
3. Lincoln Riley
4. Chris Petersen
5. Jimbo Fisher
6. Tom Herman
7. Kirby Smart
8. James Franklin
9. Dan Mullen
10. Gary Patterson
2. Dabo
3. Lincoln Riley
4. Chris Petersen
5. Jimbo Fisher
6. Tom Herman
7. Kirby Smart
8. James Franklin
9. Dan Mullen
10. Gary Patterson
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