Examining Saban’s 9-7 Record Against the Barn

selmaborntidefan

TideFans Legend
Mar 31, 2000
36,432
29,735
287
54
I'd argue that we got extremely lucky in how the BSC broke for us after the TAMU loss in Nov. of 2012. Extremely lucky with teams losing the next week (OK. State IIRC).

And then this year, we got lucky again with that stupid loss to the Barn.
I don't disagree.

However......someone needs to explain to me how that's ANY different than......


1965 - we were #4 going into the bowl game. #1 Michigan St loses a rematch to UCLA and #2 Arky loses to LSU.

Without that luck that we had no control over, there's no national title.

1978 - without Arizona St beating USC, we don't win the national title.


Any national title for a team that has any loss involves at least some degree of luck - since you're then dependent on other teams losing.
 

Nolan

Hall of Fame
Jul 4, 2006
5,591
679
137
Oahu
Really?

Seven (7) pages and no one has said it?

Well, fine, I guess I will..

SNASS!!

:p
 

BamaInBham

All-American
Feb 14, 2007
4,465
2,110
187
I'd argue that we got extremely lucky in how the BSC broke for us after the TAMU loss in Nov. of 2012. Extremely lucky with teams losing the next week (OK. State IIRC).

And then this year, we got lucky again with that stupid loss to the Barn.
True, almost anyone who wins has a certain amount of good fortune, even undefeated teams.

Bama has had other years of good fortune: 1964, 1965, 1973, 1978. Bama has also had as much bad fortune. In fact, like most programs probably more bad fortune than good.

Bama had one of its greatest teams in 1945, being undefeated, outscoring its opp 43-8, its closest game being 25-7 vs UT, destroying USC in the last open Rose Bowl in a game much worse than the 34-14 score - USC's first Rose Bowl loss in 10 tries. But Army, boosted by world conditions, was also undefeated and likely better, so Bama finished number 2.

In 1962 Bama's only loss was to GT by 1. Bama scored very late and fell inches short on a 2 point conversion attempt. Then recovered an onsides kick and moved within easy FG for Tim Davis only to throw an int. Probably would have finished 2 behind USC as Bama almost always had to wait for the other P5 teams except the ACC, often the SWC and East Coast to lose. But certainly a case could have been made for a NC.

Everyone knows the 1966 scenario: Bama was the only unblemished team in the nation and the 2 time defending NCs, destroyed number 6 Neb 35-6 in the Sugar Bowl. Finished number 2.

In 1974 Bama's only loss was 13-11 to ND. Bama was driving late, already close or in FG position, but threw an unnecessary int. Would have likely won the Coaches Poll won by 10-1-1 USC since OU, the AP winner, was on probation. A case could have been made for them anyway, but the SEC did not have the respect it does now.

1977 finished 11-1, its only loss 31-24, a 5 int game at #6 Neb, the last int in Neb's endzone. Badly beat a relatively disinterested OSU team 35-6 in the Sugar Bowl. At number 3 was jumped by 5 ND. IMO, a legit case could be made for ND, but so could one be by Bama.

2013 the weird AU loss.

2016 the last second Clemson loss with a crippled O staff.

Frankly many programs can make such claims. And again, most have more bad fortune than good, as is the case with Bama.

Bottom line: no apologies need be made for any good fortune Bama has. You know the rules, try to get in the chase and accept the outcome.
 

deliveryman35

Hall of Fame
Jul 26, 2003
12,998
1,194
287
55
Gadsden, AL
Yep. And it's why I've said for YEARS that we should move this game to September. Open SEC play with aub every year. It will still be a "big deal" - but it will end this phenomenon where the game's importance is blown out of proportion, by giving the boogs (in effect) almost a VETO on our post season expectations.

Say what you want - we only got "IN" last year due to three VERY LUCKY BREAKS.
(1) Aub already had TWO losses when we placed;
(2) Aub loses in the SECC game;
AND - (perhaps the BIGGEST BREAK OF ALL):
(3) there was NO OTHER ONE LOSS P-5 Champion (or even a 2 loss ND) out there.

Take away ANY One of those, and we MIGHT have watched the whole thing on TV, due to the TIMING of our loss.

BUT - if we played the boogs in September, they no longer have that (near) Veto power. "IMO"

I agree with this 100%. It’s the TIMING of this game more than anything else that I believe gives the barn a built-in advantage. Move it to Sept or even Oct and I think it would be much better for us.
 

CrimsonProf

Hall of Fame
Dec 30, 2006
5,716
69
67
Birmingham, Alabama
Someone mentioned the effect of the MSU game on us. This is a key point, and national pundits always miss this when discussing the SEC schedule.

Even when State is 6-6, there's always 4-6 guys on each side of the ball who could be in our two deep, and often there's as many as 3 or 4 who could start for us. Their problem has been depth and at times, bad coaching, even from Mullen. That is normally a tough, hard nosed team that gives as good as they get, and Starkville people want to beat us bad. That plays into the game, especially when it's at their place.
 

BamaMoon

Hall of Fame
Apr 1, 2004
20,932
15,935
282
Boone, NC
I don't disagree.

However......someone needs to explain to me how that's ANY different than......


1965 - we were #4 going into the bowl game. #1 Michigan St loses a rematch to UCLA and #2 Arky loses to LSU.

Without that luck that we had no control over, there's no national title.

1978 - without Arizona St beating USC, we don't win the national title.


Any national title for a team that has any loss involves at least some degree of luck - since you're then dependent on other teams losing.
I'm not arguing it's "different" now than in the past. I just think it would be better for us especially and in many ways better for both programs.

Just looking at our November schedule and we play 3 really tough games each year in November. Auburn plays us and Georgia then.

I also think it would be easier on both programs when they lose to "move on" and this would help the vileness in the fanbases as well. At least there would be something else to focus on instead of it being one of the last memories of the year that you take into the off season.

And since Auburn is one of, if not our toughest game each year, a loss in September would just be easier to work back from as opposed to the last game of the year. Since it's the game right before/around Thanksgiving, just play a decent OOC game then, but one that's pretty much guaranteed a W.
 

TomFromBama

Suspended
May 14, 2003
1,142
0
0
Lower Alabama
I agree with this 100%. It’s the TIMING of this game more than anything else that I believe gives the barn a built-in advantage. Move it to Sept or even Oct and I think it would be much better for us.
Thank you. With all due respect to Selma - I really don't see what could possibly be difficult to understand in this proposition. Easy to Disagree, but NOT really that difficult to grasp. No offense, just sayin'.....

My WHOLE point is, why give them even a SHOT at a VETO?
 

selmaborntidefan

TideFans Legend
Mar 31, 2000
36,432
29,735
287
54
I think one of the flaws in everyone's reasoning here is that y'all are ASSUMING that if Auburn had beaten Georgia.......we would not have made the playoff.

The selection of two teams from the same conference should have overturned all these assumptions.

A second UGA loss probably does put two-loss Auburn in the game......but we still probably make it.
 

selmaborntidefan

TideFans Legend
Mar 31, 2000
36,432
29,735
287
54
Thank you. With all due respect to Selma - I really don't see what could possibly be difficult to understand in this proposition. Easy to Disagree, but NOT really that difficult to grasp. No offense, just sayin'.....

My WHOLE point is, why give them even a SHOT at a VETO?
I don't even understand this.

I mean this is basically saying - without coming out and saying - "I'm afraid we might lose to Auburn so let's move the game earlier to the year because...something something, we have a better chance at beating them."
 

81usaf92

TideFans Legend
Apr 26, 2008
35,306
31,375
187
South Alabama
I think one of the flaws in everyone's reasoning here is that y'all are ASSUMING that if Auburn had beaten Georgia.......we would not have made the playoff.

The selection of two teams from the same conference should have overturned all these assumptions.

A second UGA loss probably does put two-loss Auburn in the game......but we still probably make it.
I think if that happened they would've bumped Auburn to #1 and forced us to play them in NOLA and kick Clemson and Oklahoma out west. I think Wisconsin losing pretty much made it inevitable that we were getting in and playing in NOLA. I believe the committee sent a message by putting tOSU at 8 and TCU at 15(?) that Alabama was getting in with a Wisconsin or Oklahoma loss
 

RollTide_HTTR

Hall of Fame
Feb 22, 2017
8,768
6,532
187
I like the Iron Bowl where it is personally. I don't really understand the argument for moving it. It seems like people are overthinking this or something.
 

BamaJama17

Hall of Fame
Sep 17, 2006
16,365
8
47
34
Hoover, AL
I'd argue that we got extremely lucky in how the BSC broke for us after the TAMU loss in Nov. of 2012. Extremely lucky with teams losing the next week (OK. State IIRC).

And then this year, we got lucky again with that stupid loss to the Barn.
No that was K-State.
 

deliveryman35

Hall of Fame
Jul 26, 2003
12,998
1,194
287
55
Gadsden, AL
MY prediction—neither the conference or the schools will approve changing the timing of the game, mostly for financial reasons and wealthy
alumni that don’t want it moved. And the result? Things will pretty much stay the same going forward like they have the last 35 years or so—as long as we have the superior coach we will continue to lead the series, but only by a slightly better that .500 record. We will never again overwhelmingly dominate it like we did in the 70s as the barn will —at the very least—sneak in a win every 2-3 years.
 

Bamabuzzard

FB Moderator
Staff member
Aug 15, 2004
30,562
18,322
237
48
Where ever there's BBQ, Bourbon & Football
The game where it is currently played isn't a big deal for me. It just seems (and this is just my perception from my recliner) like we're either beat up from playing the LSU and MSU games back to back or we're healthy and are playing on cruise control until we get popped in the mouth a few times by Auburn and we realize we're in a football game.

Again, I don't mind the game being the last regular season game of the year. However, I wouldn't cry if it were switched out with possibly a game in the middle part of our schedule. I think we're more focused around the middle of the year and Gus and the band are still trying to figure things out.
 

techster79

All-American
Oct 20, 2014
2,409
515
137
Deatsville, Al
No matter when it is, to Auburn it will be their superbowl and to us it will just be next up. Hopefully, we learned some reasons not to lose to Auburn and get superior depth for late in the year.
 

TomFromBama

Suspended
May 14, 2003
1,142
0
0
Lower Alabama
MY prediction—neither the conference or the schools will approve changing the timing of the game, mostly for financial reasons and wealthy
alumni that don’t want it moved. And the result? Things will pretty much stay the same going forward like they have the last 35 years or so—as long as we have the superior coach we will continue to lead the series, but only by a slightly better that .500 record. We will never again overwhelmingly dominate it like we did in the 70s as the barn will —at the very least—sneak in a win every 2-3 years.
Oh, I agree completely. CFB is ALL about the money these days - not that it ever really wasn't, but today that's really ALL that drives the game. So we'll never see the boog game moved.

And honestly, aub figured out back in the 1980's that anything they ... ahem... "Invest" in coaches, facilities OR Players, will always be a good investment, and always pay big dividends, so I don't expect THAT aspect of the rivalry to change either.


 

NoNC4Tubs

Hall of Fame
Nov 13, 2010
8,142
3,851
187
Oh, I agree completely. CFB is ALL about the money these days - not that it ever really wasn't, but today that's really ALL that drives the game. So we'll never see the boog game moved.

And honestly, aub figured out back in the 1980's that anything they ... ahem... "Invest" in coaches, facilities OR Players, will always be a good investment, and always pay big dividends, so I don't expect THAT aspect of the rivalry to change either.


Being a part of the "Fambly" means "Keeping it down home, Cuz"....
 

Latest threads

TideFans.shop : 2024 Madness!

TideFans.shop - Get YOUR Bama Gear HERE!”></a>
<br />

<!--/ END TideFans.shop & item link \-->
<p style= Purchases made through our TideFans.shop and Amazon.com links may result in a commission being paid to TideFans.