Link: CNN reporting Flynn resignation...

CrimsonNagus

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Nah, they only invoke Clinton's name so they don't have to discuss the actual issues here. It's the meekest form of deflection.

So Flynn resigned. We know that Sally Yates warned Trump over a month ago that Flynn may have been compromised. In the context of everything else we know about Trump's ties to Russia, why was that warning dismissed, and did it play into her firing in any way? When did Trump and his top staff first know about Flynn's involvement with Russia? Would he still be on staff if this hadn't been made public?
I can answer the last question... Yes, yes he would. Politicians never do anything wrong until it is made public.
 

Intl.Aperture

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"but hillary/bill clinton..." has long been a crutch

since the early 90's, people have been telling me (with associated pearl clutching and hair on fire) that i have to be very concerned with the nefarious clintons and their wrong doings. i stopped taking those folks seriously long ago.
I think automatic dismissal of folks like that is risky. I think we can look at the White House and see why it's risky. I didn't believe or listen to my own fanatical family on the matter and they got the guy they voted for elected. A lot of people have been referring to a passage from Dietrich Bonhoeffer's "Letters And Papers From Prison" where he talks about how stupidity is more dangerous than malice. I won't post it here because I'm not yet ready to throw every Trump voter under the bus of stupidity but I think there was a medley of elements that got Trump elected and to dismiss or ignore them is exactly what Bonhoeffer exhorts his readers NOT to do.
 

chanson78

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It's only three weeks in, and Trump's highly unpopular selection for National Security Adviser had to resign in disgrace and scandal. This really is a disaster for the administration and cannot be understated.

You have to wonder how long the GOP can simply ignore Trump's ties to Russia.
I think that people are overestimating how destructive these things are. In a normal presidential term, I agree, these things would and should be absolutely detrimental and devastating for Senate/House reelection chances. However I think we are operating in a completely different environment. Gerrymandering has made the majority of Republican and Democratic seats in the house all but bulletproof. As a result, there are many who are perfectly happy with the fact that there is someone who is "shaking up" D.C. and this is obviously some of that shake up. I imagine some constituents who are saying "If he wasn't pushing the boundaries, he wouldn't be trying."

There is a Republican majority in the Legislative, soon to be one in the Judicial, and one in the Executive. I believe Republicans are holding their nose because they get to get away with far more with Trump as POTUS than if Pence were in there. Say what you will, but Pence is a political operator magnitudes better than Trump will ever be. If I was congress I would be trying to pass the craziest crap without even seeing if it passed muster, and then throw that responsibility on Trump. "It's his fault, he wasn't fit for office. Oh you mean that legislation that is now law? I guess we would have to back it all out, we will get to it next session."

Also don't forget, while Trump has some of the lowest approval ratings ever for a President so early in his term, there are still a vast number of people who are eating this up. They love the populist authoritarian. These are also the same people who control the majority of the so heavily gerrymandered districts. I imagine you could show a picture of Trump actually sitting on Putin's lap while Putin had his hand up the back of Trumps shirt and these same people would say it was all a Leftist conspiracy to make Trump look bad.
 

Bamaro

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Good job taking the issue seriously. It's one thing to forget the Vince Foster stuff. I don't think about it, either. But the server thing, the lying about Benghazi actually happened. It's not a conspiracy. The left would be much better served by taking it seriously, and we could have an honest debate over policy.
Since it was all investigated ad nauseam to no avail, maybe it would now be better to focus in the mess currently happening within the whitehouse.
 

Jon

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Since it was all investigated ad nauseam to no avail, maybe it would now be better to focus in the mess currently happening within the whitehouse.
right?

Many of us, including little old "Statist" me bashed Clinton on her server and she deserved it, at the time. But that ship has sailed and as for Bengazi all I ever saw there was some bad mistakes by stupid politicians who then put the best spin on what happened. Like Carter with the failed hostage rescue, Bush with Iraq and now Trump with his recent disaster in Yemen. None of these things are prosecutable, they are mistakes that cost American lives and that is very sad. Did she deserve the criticism then? Certainly, but that has nothing to do with now.

and to Prof and others, If we concede that Clinton is a liar can we move on and discuss what is going on now? If so I got y'all, She is a liar
 

Jon

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Without climbing up on a scaffold as a martyr, or compromising anonymity, I'm just going to stay I was outspoken about Trump in a way that was personally risky. I opposed him then and I oppose him now.

But we're just BS'ing on a message board, so I thought I'd lay it out there. What we say right here doesn't amount to a whole lot.

By the way - I just love the whole, if they're really guilty, the authorities will do something about it.

That's right - as Bama fans - we ought to know that doesn't carry much water. "If Cam was really paid, then why didn't the NCAA..." "If Jameis really raped that girl, the prosecutor would have...." But for what it's worth, Bill Clinton would have been removed from office had Arlen Specter not cited Scottish law. So the authorities and Congress are not without their own issues.


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that's funny I am told here every day that only the left is intolerant of their members not towing the party line
 

BamaInMo1

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The scary thing is they are totally serious. I don't care if you're Democrat or Republican this president's cozying up with the Russians is outrageous. Flynn was acting as a private citizen so are we to believe he was acting on his own? It's so obvious this administration thinks it can do whatever it wants to without following any law. Trump wanted to get a message to old buddy Vladimir to be cool and the sanctions Obama issued would be removed as soon as they got sworn in.
What on earth does Putin have on Trump? Has Pence sold his soul to be VP?
And I suppose the last administration was a beacon or truth and law?
Wasn't it Obama who said to Putin "Wait till I get re-elected. I'll have more room"? So it seems that Trump isn't the only one dealing with the Russians.
Let's talk about the socialists and communists that the previous administration was riddled with. Not to mention the Muslims.
 

92tide

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And I suppose the last administration was a beacon or truth and law?
Wasn't it Obama who said to Putin "Wait till I get re-elected. I'll have more room"? So it seems that Trump isn't the only one dealing with the Russians.
Let's talk about the socialists and communists that the previous administration was riddled with. Not to mention the Muslims.
 

TideEngineer08

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I'm not a fan of either administration cozying up with the Russians. Clinton had her ties with them as well. Day in and day out, Trump's seem to be far more overt than either of the other two were, though, and that's deeply concerning.
 

81usaf92

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All I'm saying is that there's a group of posters here who seem to fall over themselves in order to bring Clinton into conversations that have nothing to do with her,
My comment was directed at HSV's "Petraus is a confessed criminal" not at Flynn. The reason I brought THE Clinton(s) up was because whether or not convicted for it or not there was findings that did indicate that one of the them slept with a person that wasnt his spouse at a position of high authority, and the other leaked classified information. Both are two things that Petraus did. So no it was not a deflection at all.

and you've done it twice in 24 hours. If Trump nominates her to replace Flynn, then she'll be relevant here.
Well....

Charmin:
USA Today: Flynn apologizes after admitting he may have discussed sanctions with Russia

National Security Adviser Michael Flynn has apologized amid reports that Flynn discussed U.S. sanctions against Russia with the Russian ambassador in the days before President Trump's inauguration, a White House official said... The White House official, speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss a sensitive personnel matter, said Flynn now says he may have discussed sanctions, but cannot be 100% certain.

The controversy involves a phone call in late December with Sergey Kislyak, the Russian ambassador to the United States, amid the Obama administration's crackdown in retaliation for Russian hacking during the 2016 presidential campaign. The timing of the phone call — and Russia's decision not to retaliate against the U.S. measures — have raised further questions about the relationship between Trump's inner circle and the Kremlin.

Initially, Flynn said he did not discuss sanctions with Kislyak, a denial passed onto the public by Trump spokesman Sean Spicer and Pence, among others. In past weeks, Flynn has said the conversation was general in nature, including holiday greetings.

After a Washington Post story last week cited nine unnamed intelligence sources as saying Flynn and the Russian ambassador did discuss sanctions, the national security adviser adjusted his story.


Well he apologized, so I guess it's okay.
81USAF:

Remind me of all the dead US citizens in Russia because of General Flynn....
Again I took it as you bringing her into the conversation and comparing the two. I dont watch Arrested Development so I believe you werent after you said it. So it wasnt a deflection it was a response to what I took as a comparison.


FWIW If you think this "deflection" stuff only goes on when a Republican is in power then you ought to look at some of the memes some of your fellow liberals were putting in the Nuke deal thread about equating stuff to Reagan. Point is this isnt anywhere near Republican only.
 

Intl.Aperture

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And I suppose the last administration was a beacon or truth and law?
Wasn't it Obama who said to Putin "Wait till I get re-elected. I'll have more room"? So it seems that Trump isn't the only one dealing with the Russians.
Let's talk about the socialists and communists that the previous administration was riddled with. Not to mention the Muslims.
Dude, this is exactly what we are talking about. Deferring to the last administration, who are no longer governing, does not absolve whatever missteps or wrongs are being committed by the current administration. Deflecting to them doesn't correct what is happening now. 2 wrongs don't make a right. I don't know how many other ways there are to say it. As a fellow conservative I plead with you to stop using this argument(?) as a way to defend the current government. Wrong is wrong, and if our side is doing it we need to scream at the top of our lungs for them to stop.
 

MattinBama

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Trying to be a pathological liar to cover for a pathological liar is tiring work based on how she's looking.

Poor Baghdad Barbie.

edited to fix dead link
 
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chanson78

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Republicans vow to get to the bottom of the Flynn issue

By ensuring that they find out who illegally leaked the fact that the NSAdvisor had done illegal things.

Fox News said:
In the wake of Michael Flynn’s resignation as national security adviser, President Trump and Republican allies on Capitol Hill are turning their attention to the potentially “illegal” leaks that revealed Flynn's politically fatal discussions with a Russian diplomat and other sensitive details from inside the administration.

...snip...

Senate homeland security committee Chairman Ron Johnson, R-Wis., told Fox News that “somebody in the nebulous intelligence community” would have had access to the Flynn discussions.

“Who tapped the phones, who was listening to it, who leaked it? I think those are legitimate questions to ask,” he told Fox News on Tuesday. “Leaks of this nature are incredibly damaging to America … and we need to look into it.”
So let me get this straight. Ron Johnson believes that leaking the fact that someone who could sit in the NSC has closer ties to Russia than they had been willing to disclose publicly, is more of a threat than that guy actually being on the NSC.

It's business as usual in D.C. The swamp isn't draining, and the only difference is that the cheeto in chief, who brought all his wacko buddies to the swamp, are now getting the alligators to circle the wagons.
 

chanson78

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This is how you handle the president.

Russian officials defend Flynn, say admin may be infected by 'Russophobia'

This is how you handle Trump to get him to do what you want. This will end well.

Fox News said:
"Either Trump has not gained the requisite independence and he is consequently being not unsuccessfully backed into a corner, or Russophobia has already infected the new administration also from top to bottom," MP Konstantin Kosachev said, according to news reports out of the country.
 

TIDE-HSV

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I don't venture over this way too much anymore, but for what it's worth.

I've said this before in another thread but I'm just floored how some of you are able to ignore HRC's issues. I'm going to agree with almost every criticism of Trump and his staff - a trainwreck and a disaster. Frankly we'd all be better served he resigned or were impeached and we could just simply have partisan and ideological debates with President Pence - none of this other stuff that is getting in the way right now.

So with it clear that I am not carrying water for DJT - I even did a spot on talk radio as a "Never Trump" conservative - the way those of you on the left deflect on Clinton is really astounding. Not saying she should be tarred and feathered, but her lying about Benghazi and the email server business were serious issues - disqualifying for office, reckless and in the latter case, quite possibly illegal. And no, don't tell me the FBI was going to indict her late in a campaign. I'm fully willing to believe there's a level of illegality that could be ignored if indictment meant a dust-up of the magnitude that would have occurred at HRC been indicted after the convention.

It's obviously not politically expedient for the GOP to worry about this anymore, but it's a neat little trick the Democrats and some - but not all - media members have going on. Declare something a non-story and then make the GOP look like the crazy side. You realize that's exactly what Kevin Scarbinsky and Jay Jacobs did to us during the Cam Newton ordeal?

Again - this cuts both ways. Honest men and women in the GOP need to cowboy up and call this BS what it is. But the inability to acknowledge Clinton's misgivings is still a problem on its own terms.

Now, back to Flynn. Very glad he's gone, but worried for what's to come. Just hope we can show DJT the door without too much damage in the meantime.


Also:

http://www.nationalreview.com/corne...-americans-dislike-incompetent-and-corruption

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The story is no longer about Clinton. Period. Get that?
 

TIDE-HSV

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Good job taking the issue seriously. It's one thing to forget the Vince Foster stuff. I don't think about it, either. But the server thing, the lying about Benghazi actually happened. It's not a conspiracy. The left would be much better served by taking it seriously, and we could have an honest debate over policy.


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The present day story is no longer about Clinton. Understand that?
 

TIDE-HSV

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My comment was directed at HSV's "Petraus is a confessed criminal" not at Flynn. The reason I brought THE Clinton(s) up was because whether or not convicted for it or not there was findings that did indicate that one of the them slept with a person that wasnt his spouse at a position of high authority, and the other leaked classified information. Both are two things that Petraus did. So no it was not a deflection at all.



Well....




Again I took it as you bringing her into the conversation and comparing the two. I dont watch Arrested Development so I believe you werent after you said it. So it wasnt a deflection it was a response to what I took as a comparison.


FWIW If you think this "deflection" stuff only goes on when a Republican is in power then you ought to look at some of the memes some of your fellow liberals were putting in the Nuke deal thread about equating stuff to Reagan. Point is this isnt anywhere near Republican only.
Did you miss the fact that he IS a confessed criminal? Fined and two years probation? We would have a security chief who's confessed to voluntarily disclosing classified information to his mistress? How long have you been asleep?
 

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