The perception of college football vs. the NFL

bamafaninOhiO

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They can blame themselves.

Sports in this country - professional anyway - were once confined to north of the Mason-Dixon line with St Louis the western border. They viewed the South as primitive and racist & while nobody should deny the reality of the latter, it's not like the Northeast was better. The World Series began after baseball had been around about 25 years in 1903 but no blacks were allowed to play until 1947. I'm just pointing out the failure to expand South cannot justifiably be racism since that was institutionalized in all sports.

NFL was their baby as well. You have to remember that by the time Atlanta got an NFL team, Alabama had won 3 titles the previous 5 years. Lewis Grizzard (UGA, 1968) theorized that the Southern male was emasculated by being the only American to ever lose a war (pre-Vietnam) and that this gave him additional pride to fight for state superiority.

Also - how many teams in the NE have been national powers for any period of time since the Ivy League pulled back? Basically Penn State was like Boise from 1968-78. That loss to Alabama in 79 put them on the map. The only other "power" for the NE was Notre Dame due to heavy Catholic populations in CT, Mass, and MD.

Once they shrunk & the world grew nature took care of the rest.
Notre Dame is in Indiana, thats actually Mid-west, correct?
 
All you're doing is taking offense to everything I say because you're an NFL fan. I didn't mean to offend you.

I don't have any problem with NFL players taking whatever anybody is willing to pay them, that's not my point. It's not personal. Heck, we'd all take the money. I just think it waters down the league. You have guys holding out for more money all the time because they think they're worth more, even when they already have more than they can spend. The problem is, after they've held out and get their money (Chris Johnson, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Albert Haynesworth, etc., etc. for example) they play like crap.

A coach can bench a player for underperforming or not practicing hard in college or high school, NFL coaches can't do that. The owner is paying that player big time money for him to be on the field and selling tickets, it doesn't matter how big of a pain in the butt the player is, or if he even deserves to be out there.

College rivalries are simply more storied, with more tradition, and have a more legitimate make-up. That's not opinion, that's just the way it is. College football has been around a lot longer than the NFL has. Rivalries and tradition is what makes college football what it is. I think you can ask any player or coach in the NFL and 99% will tell you that college rivalries are simply much better than NFL rivalries.

DeMeco Ryans said it best a couple years ago when Phil Simms asked him before Houston played Dallas if he hated the Cowboys. "No I don't hate the Cowboys". Ryans said, "I hate Auburn".

That about sums it up. You play "rivalries" in the NFL. You LIVE rivalries in college football. It's part of who you are, and no amount of money will ever change it.
You're not offending me... I'm just refuting what I see as a weak argument on your part. I don't see the NFL as "watered down" due to the money involved. You do have good points about holdouts, but there have been plenty of holdouts who have performed quite well after getting paid. As for the benching, NFL coaches can do that if they have a owner that is competent and not a meddler. The franchises that are consistently good and in the playoffs are the ones that have stable leadership and don't get in the way of on the field decisions.

The line from DeMeco is a bit misleading due to the fact Houston and Dallas aren't rivals and only play each other once every 4 years (Outside of any meaningless preseason game they might do). Ask a Jet what he thinks of a Patriot and vice versa. The same goes for a Raven when asked about a Steeler. It'd be different if Houston and Dallas were divisional rivals. If he was playing for the Giants or Eagles... then that statement would have a little more bearing.

If I do sound worked up, it's usually because most people on this board will post a thread critical of the NFL in comparison to college football and then say, "Well, I don't even watch the NFL on a regular basis"... totally reducing their argument and validity in my book. I don't know what your level of viewership is.
 
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HartselleTider

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You're not offending me... I'm just refuting what I see as a weak argument on your part. I don't see the NFL as "watered down" due to the money involved. You do have good points about holdouts, but there have been plenty of holdouts who have performed quite well after getting paid. As for the benching, NFL coaches can do that if they have a owner that is competent and not a meddler. The franchises that are consistently good and in the playoffs are the ones that have stable leadership and don't get in the way of on the field decisions.

The line from DeMeco is a bit misleading due to the fact Houston and Dallas aren't rivals and only play each other once every 4 years (Outside of any meaningless preseason game they might do). Ask a Jet what he thinks of a Patriot and vice versa. The same goes for a Raven when asked about a Steeler. It'd be different if Houston and Dallas were divisional rivals. If he was playing for the Giants or Eagles... then that statement would have a little more bearing.

If I do sound worked up, it's usually because most people on this board will post a thread critical of the NFL in comparison to college football and then say, "Well, I don't even watch the NFL on a regular basis"... totally reducing their argument and validity in my book. I don't know what your level of viewership is.

They'll say whatever it takes to get the fans foaming at the mouth, but it's mostly all for show. It's not a genuine distaste or anything for the other team.

If the team on the other side of that "rivalry" offers him a better contract, he's going to be in that team's uni badmouthing the other team and vice versa. It's not genuine.

Jason Taylor badmouthed the Jets his entire career and talked constantly about how much he "hated" them. Then went to play for them, and badmouthed his former team. Even went so far as to say Rex Ryan was the best coach he ever played under, etc., etc. Then hated the Jets again when he went back to Miami to finish his career.

It's a job to them. A business. They hate whoever they're supposed to hate, and love whoever is signing their paychecks. The rivalries in the NFL exist only the heads of the fanbases. The players know it and play on it to boost their marketability.

My level of NFL viewership is mostly just a casual observer. I like football so of course I watch NFL games if I can get around to it on Sunday afternoons. I don't dislike the NFL, nor do I fault anyone who's in love with it. I just call it how I see it.
 
I

It's On A Slab

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Probably because big-time college football is corrupt.

In the NFL, a player gets paid above-board for his services, he has a union that goes to bat for him, he has a pension if he plays long enough, etc.

A college football player is not availed to this. That doesn't mean that pay-for-play isn't rampant, freebies (cars, fake jobs,cash, etc) aren't handed out at many top programs.
 

HartselleTider

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Probably because big-time college football is corrupt.

In the NFL, a player gets paid above-board for his services, he has a union that goes to bat for him, he has a pension if he plays long enough, etc.

A college football player is not availed to this. That doesn't mean that pay-for-play isn't rampant, freebies (cars, fake jobs,cash, etc) aren't handed out at many top programs.

I don't think anybody denies that big time college football is corrupt. That's kinda like saying professional boxing is corrupt.

I think the NCAA as an organization is more corrupt than any individual program though. One of the biggest gripes I have is that a school can't purchase a student athlete who literally has nothing a plane ticket to fly home in order to attend his mother's funeral.

Pay for play, cars, bling, etc. is a different can o' worms.
 

Bamabuzzard

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Probably because big-time college football is corrupt.

In the NFL, a player gets paid above-board for his services, he has a union that goes to bat for him, he has a pension if he plays long enough, etc.

A college football player is not availed to this. That doesn't mean that pay-for-play isn't rampant, freebies (cars, fake jobs,cash, etc) aren't handed out at many top programs.
Unfortunately when the money that is involved (in anything) becomes more and more then the level of corruption increases accordingly.
 

deuce_deuce

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don't think one is more corrupt than the other. they are both corrupt, just differently. also, there is no difference in the passion. the football passion is similar, it is just placed differently. ppl in the north feel just as strong about their professional teams b/c they are the representation of their city/town/state just as ppl in the south feel strongly about our college teams b/c they are our representation of our city/town/state.
 
I

It's On A Slab

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Unfortunately when the money that is involved (in anything) becomes more and more then the level of corruption increases accordingly.
Agreed. And the silly/hypocritical attitudes of fan bases, who see another big-time school get caught, who think they are above it all. There is no secret as to why Vandy is the only SEC school that has never been on multi-yr probation in football.
 

Nolan

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Not really. I've seen a lot of low scoring NFL games get dogged for being ugly. The NFL has become a passing league.
I do agree but I was thinking of one game in particular, the last time Niners and Giants played for the NFC championship, early 90s.. it was all FGs and the score was something like 15-12.

Additionally, just look at the scoring averages throughout the league. They stay around 17-24 points. In college that would be slammed as pedestrian.

Folks just don't appreciate defense anymore imo..
 

cuda.1973

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Free agency didn't kill team vs. team rivalries (Besides, why should a player be bound to a team for basically his entire career?)
Well, maybe not, but................

Something killed the CowBags-DeadSkins rivalry. Now, the CowBags view the Iggles as their main rival, and the reverse seems to be true.

Sure, it is just a bidnis. How else could a rat, like TO go from hated scumbag, for dancing on the Cowboy star (and being flattened, by George Teague!), to the main attraction?

And I am supposed to get interested in watching that stuff?

Nope, don't watch the NFL any longer, and don't miss it. Even when we were in our "dark" period, I had no interest in watching it. Lots of reasons, only one of which was finally getting out of the NE, 40 years ago.

And speaking of which.........there is only one college football team, up north. Yep, Notre stinking Dame. Or maybe it just seemed that way, as everyone I knew, or am related to, is Catholic. And for some obtuse reason, are die-hard Steelers and Browns fans. The latter of which despise the Ravens.

Come to think about it.............those Browns fans seem to have a lot in common with API fans.
 
Well, maybe not, but................

Something killed the CowBags-DeadSkins rivalry. Now, the CowBags view the Iggles as their main rival, and the reverse seems to be true.

Sure, it is just a bidnis. How else could a rat, like TO go from hated scumbag, for dancing on the Cowboy star (and being flattened, by George Teague!), to the main attraction?

And I am supposed to get interested in watching that stuff?

Nope, don't watch the NFL any longer, and don't miss it. Even when we were in our "dark" period, I had no interest in watching it. Lots of reasons, only one of which was finally getting out of the NE, 40 years ago.

And speaking of which.........there is only one college football team, up north. Yep, Notre stinking Dame. Or maybe it just seemed that way, as everyone I knew, or am related to, is Catholic. And for some obtuse reason, are die-hard Steelers and Browns fans. The latter of which despise the Ravens.

Come to think about it.............those Browns fans seem to have a lot in common with API fans.
I know several Steelers and Browns fans... they both hate the Ravens with an absolute passion.
 

cbi1972

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Also - MOST of the PAC 10 wins in the last decade came courtesy of one team - USC.
I think the strength of the SEC is the depth, not just in a single year, because teams are going to have down years, but from year to year. Five different SEC teams have won national championships. No other conference has more than two. It's not just one or two teams carrying the conference.
 

RogueElephant

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I tend to agree with this except for one thing... some of these people are die hard fans of NFL teams like the Miami Dolphins, etc. who haven't been relevant in 30 some odd years or so.

From my experience, die hard college football fans and die hard NFL fans are just flat out two completely different types of fanbases in general.

I think die hard college football fans have a distinct appreciation for the GAME of football itself. Whereas die hard NFL fans don't seem to appreciate the actual game of football. They only appreciate whether the overpaid divas whose jerseys they bought are getting hyped up in the media as much as the overpaid divas from their "rivals".

Which brings me to my next point. Rivalries in the NFL do not exist anymore in my opinion. I think rivalries in the NFL died with the inception of free agency. When lifelong Packers like Brett Favre are wearing Minnesota Viking jerseys..... lifelong Dolphins like Jason Taylor are playing for the New York Jets.... Thurman Thomas in a Dolphins uniform... Emmitt Smith in an Arizona Cardinal jersey... one of the greatest Raiders of all time Marcus Allen playing for the Kansas City Chiefs, etc...

... the term "rivals" just holds no water for me. It's about money. Loyalty in professional sports only goes to whoever is going to pay them the money.

NFL football is just so watered down compared to college football in my opinion. The caliber of players may be superior, but that doesn't mean the product on the field is.
I agree Free Agency destroyed the NFL for me. I was a huge LA Rams fan and loved following some of my favorite players on the team. But after free agency I lost interest on the NFL and than the Rams moved to St. Louis.
 

bamanut_aj

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How in the world is the NFL watered down?? You have the BEST FOOTBALL PLAYERS IN THE WORLD playing in a 32 team league....watered down? Really?
 

NBF_Bama_Cavalry

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I used to watch pro football. Started when Namath went to the Jets. Back then, it seemed they played more for the love of the game than the money. Now, it seems it's all about the money and it's just a job. There's no loyalty to a team. It's full of whiny millionaires complaining that they're not getting paid enough and are lousy examples to the young people who look up to them. It's mostly a northern institution with a few exceptions and I absolutely despise the north, especially the New England states. I didn't watch the super bowl this season because I was pretty sure the earth was not going to open up and swallow both teams. That would have been the only thing that would have made it interesting to me.
 
I used to watch pro football. Started when Namath went to the Jets. Back then, it seemed they played more for the love of the game than the money. Now, it seems it's all about the money and it's just a job. There's no loyalty to a team. It's full of whiny millionaires complaining that they're not getting paid enough and are lousy examples to the young people who look up to them. It's mostly a northern institution with a few exceptions and I absolutely despise the north, especially the New England states. I didn't watch the super bowl this season because I was pretty sure the earth was not going to open up and swallow both teams. That would have been the only thing that would have made it interesting to me.
So your thoughts on the part of the Namath documentary when Coach Bryant told him to ask for $200k, when that was a ridiculous amount of money for a rookie?

And the loyalty argument is laughable considering the team has no condition of loyalty to a player, either... even with "guaranteed" money. If there was an indication of "loyalty" in the past, it's because teams held players to a franchise through the reserve clause (Was called the Option Clause in the NFL). Teams could renew their contracts as much as they wanted without the player having any say it. When their usefulness was done, teams could simply just cut the player, and he'd have basically no options left (There were punitive restrictions in place for teams to sign a released player... you had to give compensation back to the original franchise).

So please... stop it with this whole "love of the game" nonsense. The system was not pristine by any stretch back in the day.
 
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NBF_Bama_Cavalry

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So your thoughts on the part of the Namath documentary when Coach Bryant told him to ask for $200k, when that was a ridiculous amount of money for a rookie?

And the loyalty argument is laughable considering the team has no condition of loyalty to a player, either... even with "guaranteed" money.
Didn't know about that back then. I knew he got the 400K signing bonus and it was a lot of money at that time. I knew he was brash and arrogant and was an Alabama player. That's all I cared about. I knew he smoked cigarettes and drank alcohol but I don't recollect any players being arrested for murder, rape, robbery, drug possession, etc. I was a Jets fan for a long time - translation - I've been pulling for losers since the '60s. To me, it's just a bunch of prima donnas doing their thing. Some people love it, some don't.
 

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