The Hobbits leave the Shire...

BamaCLM · Apr 13, 2001

I don't know if you would call it foreshadowing or not, but at the Council of Elrond I began to distrust Boromir. There are a couple of hints as to his future actions. When Frodo shows them all the ring, "Boromir's eyes glinted as he gazed at the golden thing." And then after all had spoken and despite Gandalf's long narrative, Boromir still wants to keep the ring. "Let the ring be your weapon if it has such power as you say. Take it and go forth to victory"

So we have an early glimpse of which way he is leaning, and when he is made one of the nine, this becomes very important. One knows he is going to do something.

Frodo's sword WAS broken in the attack by the wraiths, because just before they leave, Bilbo gives Sting to him for his long journey, as Frodo's sword was never reforged, and there was now no time. They are now about to depart on their long journey. But oh what a wonderful rest they had at the Last Homely House.

LTBF · Apr 15, 2001

So what you are saying, BamaCLM, is that the sword Frodo was carrying when he was attacked by the ringwraiths was NOT Sting. I don't know why I thought it might have been.

I haven't gotten yet to the Hobbits and Strider leaving Rivendell, so haven't gotten to Sting yet. I did not remember it from the first 5 or 10 times reading LOTR.

Yesterday was a busy day, and I didn't get to read last night. I just collapsed. Today, being Easter, is my day to do family dinner, and I am doing this in a brief interlude. Got to stop soon and get back to work. Thank goodness lnadell is here, and is such a good cook. She has done most of the hard stuff.

ROLL TIDE FOREVER!

bobstod · Apr 16, 2001

The fellowship has been rejected by cruel Caradras and make their way toward the gates of Moria...

We had to stop to watch Hornblower!!

The Passage of Moria is one of my favorite parts of the tale.

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ALABAMA: Tradition; Class; A name to respect in College Football

LTBF · Apr 17, 2001

PLEASE stop and watch Hornblower (which series I loved, by the way), and let me catch up with you before you go into the mines of Moria.

I am so bogged down!

ROLL TIDE FOREVER!

LTBF · Apr 17, 2001

PLEASE stop and watch Hornblower (which series I loved, by the way), and let me catch up with you before you go into the mines of Moria.

I am so bogged down!

ROLL TIDE FOREVER!

LTBF · Apr 18, 2001

OK, I have the fellowship turning back from the Redhorn Gate because of the terrible storm. In a few pages, the chapter is called "A Journey in the Dark," and must be about Moria. I am amazed here by the sheer fertility of the mind of JRRT in not only naming all these places ONCE, but more than once, in all the different tongues of Middle Earth. The name Moria, of course, is Elvish. It was also called the Black Pit. By the dwarves it was called Khazad-dum, the Dwarrowdelf.

Again, I find the names so evocative. Here we have Mirrormere, and the Dimrill Stair, which is one of my favorites. The River Silverlode is mentioned. Hollin is the human name for Eregion, where the Elvish smiths lived who forged the Ruling Rings.

ROLL TIDE FOREVER!

LTBF · Apr 20, 2001

Speak, friend, and enter. Say "friend" and enter. Gandalf has figured out the riddle.

The Ring company has entered the mines of Moria. The "Watcher in the Water" (is that what he is called?) has seized Frodo by the leg and almost dragged him into the slimy green water. The suggestion is made that it is not entirely coincidental that it was Frodo who was seized, and I draw the conclusion that Sauron has influence here.

During the journey through the tunnels, Frodo keeps hearing what he takes to be soft padding footsteps, and occasionally sees two eyes shining in the darkness.

We must surmise that this is Gollum, following his "Precious." My question is this: The gates were shut so suddenly to prevent the "Watcher" from following the company, and then they could no longer be opened. How did Gollum manage to get in?

Was he hiding in the darkness, and sneak in while everybody elses' attention was focused on rescuing Frodo? In that case, he was really in before they were.

How do you visualize the balrog in your mind? To what earthly creature does he most seem to compare? Is he a symbol? Of what?

It is in keeping him, with his many pronged whip, from crossing the stone bridge, that Gandalf falls, or is dragged, into the chasm.

When he finally reappears, far along in the story, he is so transformed that the hobbits don't recognize him at first. It is this that makes me think of Christ as a model, in Tolkien's mind. He seems to go to Hell, and re-emerge, a different person.

BTW, my son came over and replaced my screen saver with one that shows, ta-da, Treebeard and the Ents. I think it must be one of the scenes from the calendars that were so popular for a while.

ROLL TIDE FOREVER!

bobstod · Apr 21, 2001

I still remember how devastated I was the first time I read the trilogy, when Gandalf is dragged into the pit by the Balrog!

My son Rob was even worse, at age 13 or 14, when we got to that part of the book. He can recite that whole last page or so: "...Fly, you fools!"

Strangely, I don't believe I was ever able to conjure up a clear image of the Balrog before I saw the Hildebrandt Brothers painting. He was so shadowy, and so menacing, but I didn't have any clear image.

Now I picture a winged creature with a human upper torso and arms, extremely muscular, huge. Taloned feet, a wolflike, but also somewhat porcine face, a whip and a sword in hand, fiery eyes.

Without question, this is Gandalf's defining moment. He must pass through the fire and be reborn.

Don't we see that happen to many (if not all) of the major characters eventually?

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ALABAMA: Tradition; Class; A name to respect in College Football

LTBF · Apr 21, 2001

Bob, here is the passage about the black horses. I couldn't remember what thread it was on, but here goes:

It has to do with the scouts who are sent out from Rivendell to get the lay of the land, so to speak. They come back reporting that they can't even feel the presence of the enemy.

"Three of the black horses had been found at once drowned in the flooded Ford. On the rocks of the rapids below it searchers discovered the bodies of five more, and also a long black cloak, slashed and tattered. Of the Black Riders no other trace was to be seen, and nowhere was their presence to be felt. It seemed that they had vanished from the North." This is near the beginning of the chapter entitled "The Ring Goes South."

I once saw a movie entitled Legend, I think, starring a very young Tom Cruise. He meets, literally, Satan, and when I think of the Balrog I always picture the image of Satan in that movie. He was truly horrible to behold. I'n not sure I could even describe him, but as I recall, his upper torso was that of a very muscular man. He had great curled horns on his head. He had great wings that folded away on his back, or else furled out. His feet were cloven hooves, I think. He was mostly dark red and black in coloration. He seemed to me a very sexual image, the stuff of nightmares.

Oh, well, he was truly horrible (the balrog), whatever he looked like. It will be interesting to see how the movie depicts him. This is such a pivotal scene that it must be included.

ROLL TIDE FOREVER!

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