Siddhartha, by Herman Hess

Hey LTBF, I, too, am Methodist. I'm not very familiar with Catholocism(sp), but about a year ago I bought the Seven Story Mtn. It's written by a Trappist monk in KY who grew up in Europe named Thomas Merton. I got bogged down due to some tests I had to take for professional licensing. Anyway, I want to get back into it. I believe that the book gets into some of the issues you mention in your last post. I didn't quite get that far into it, but have read about him/the book on the net.

OK, class... But what about the theme?



------------------
ALABAMA: Tradition; Class; A name to respect in College Football

I don't want to let this thread die. This is a worthwhile book, and there are wonderful, useful things to be learned here.

Spirituality, religion, belief systems; to me they have only one purpose: to help us find peace, joy, love, and understanding while we live in this world.

What happens afterwards is probably beyond human comprehension. I figure that will all take care of itself, as long as I strive to act from the God within me while I am here.

One of the things I have learned, on my own path, is that what we resist, persists. That may not ring a bell with you right now, but I'll try to elucidate a bit, and then I'll refer you to some pages in Siddhartha that pertain, I think.

Many times in my life I have been in great pain because of my children, or through working out things in my relationship with Barbara. Particularly in the case of my children, I always felt that I needed to strive and work and suffer to get them through one crisis or another.

I was never really able to steer them on any path of my own choosing: one that would be less painful and frightening to me. All I would accomplish would be to sink deeper into depression, anger, fear, hopelessness.

Eventually I found a couple of teachers, who were able to convince me of the value of letting go. "Don't resist! What you resist, persists! Let go, and let God..."

On page 107 of Siddhartha, our protagonist discovers this truth by hearing the river laugh. "Everything that was not suffered to the end and finally concluded, recurred, and the same sorrows were undergone."

You have to read the entire episode, from near the top of that page to near the bottom of page 111, to ingest the whole idea. Siddhartha is hurting from the wounds he felt when his son left him. His love and concern for his son's welfare and destiny are heavy upon him, and will not go away.

What he discovers, in a nutshell, (and please read Hesse's much more eloquent version) is that his suffering and pain, his lonliness, his father's similar pain, and that of his son, are all part of the completeness of life. Without pain, joy is bland. Without suffering, we cannot find true joy.

What we must do is learn to accept what we experience in our lives with peace and love, and with positive affirmation that all things lead eventually to God. In a deeper sense, each moment, each act, is complete and perfect within itself. We cannot choose another's path, not even that of our own offspring. When we are fearful, or in pain, accept that as well; affirm that it is as much a part of the completeness of life as the joy. Let go of it, and let God.

That is what these pages say to me. They are full of comfort, and show a practical method of finding peace when all seems hopeless and full of suffering.

What do thay say to you?

------------------
ALABAMA: Tradition; Class; A name to respect in College Football



[This message has been edited by bobstod (edited April 29, 2001).]

This thread is interesting enough to get me to register.

I actually stumbled across it while trying to get info about Siddhartha to help me convince a friend that she really needs to read it.

Its been a while - ten years or so - since I read Herman Hess.

I was intrigued that there was a very important detail that everyone seemed to be missing about the fictional characters of this story. Although the character Siddhartha seems to live during the time of the Buddha, and even meets up with a Buddhist follower Gotama and is encouraged to learn more about the Buddha, and at points draws physically closer to the Buddha, he is actually himself the Buddha.

LTBF mentions that Siddhartha Gautama was the name of the Buddha, but it doesn't seem to trigger more discussion. A book about self-discovery in which the character talks to 'himself', learns of and even seeks out 'himself', all while learning about himself, of a real-world person presented as a fiction character. Doesn't it make you want to read it again and again? And all in an afternoon read!

Maybe it has been too long. The funny part is, before I stumbled upon this thread, I was planning on re-reading LOTR (as I figured out what was meant by this), but now may have to do Siddhartha again.

And start reading through these boards.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by twor2000:
Although the character Siddhartha seems to live during the time of the Buddha, and even meets up with a Buddhist follower Gotama and is encouraged to learn more about the Buddha, and at points draws physically closer to the Buddha, he is actually himself the Buddha.

LTBF mentions that Siddhartha Gautama was the name of the Buddha, but it doesn't seem to trigger more discussion.
And start reading through these boards.</font>

Click to expand...

After reading the LTBF statement, this thought had occurred to me, but when no one else said anything I decided it might be that my thought on the matter was wrong. I think that every one here is into discussion and I should have brought it up. I think that what you say is interesting and I had considered it.

I never thought of that!! Now I have to read back through the book and appreciate the duality of that idea.

Thanks for the instruction, Two or!

------------------
ALABAMA: Tradition; Class; A name to respect in College Football

I'm a bit late, but I just read Siddhartha a few days ago and would like to make a few comments. Siddhartha is an allegory, similar in some respects to Pilgrim's Progress. Siddhartha is the story of a journey from the world of illusion to the timeless unity of all things. Names are symbolic guides to the nature of characters or events and this book is rich in symbolism. So, first a few definitions:

Atman -- The inner self. Buddhism denies any reality to the Self altogether. (Anatman is the Buddhist theory of the nonexistence of the soul.)
Om -- The Word; the Eternal. All words are said to be but various forms of the one sound--Om--according to the Upanishads. It represents the Divine and the power of God. It is the sound symbol for the ultimate Reality.
Upanishads -- The concluding portion of the Vedas. The central teaching of the Upanishads is that the self of a human being is the same as Brahman, the Absolute. The goal of life, according to the Upanishads, is realization of Brahman.
Vedas -- The sacred scriptures of the Hindu tradition.
Govinda -- The knower of the Vedas.
Kama -- Desire; pleasure, lust, love. Also, the god of beauty and love.
Kamala -- Lotus; rose colored. Notice Kama above.
Swami -- Lord, master.
Kamaswami -- is kama + swami. Kamaswami is the master of material things. See above definitions.
Vasudeva --One of the manifestations of God; the God who dwells within all.
Brahmin -- The first caste of Hindu society. The members of this caste are, by tradition, priests and scholars.
Satya -- Truth. The world of the highest truth or being.
Maya -- The principle of appearance; illusion. The force which shows the unreal as real and presents that which is temporary and short lived as eternal and everlasting. The force that conceals our divinity.
Nirvana -- Extinction; perfection; the Great Peace. According to Buddhism, it is the goal of life. According to Hinayana, it is the eradication of the craving that causes rebirth. It is an overcoming of the wheel of birth and death (samsara), and a final exit from the world of becoming.
Samana -- It is the life breath which controls digestion and assimilation. One of the five vital airs. The five vital airs are known as prana.
Samsara -- Worldly illusion, empirical existence; the wheel of birth and death; the objective universe.

Throughout Siddhartha, perhaps the most important motif to look for is the smile of self-realization. When someone smiles, read carefully. Something important has been revealed or is about to be revealed.

The book begins by showing that Siddhartha has everything one would normally desire. He is handsome, admired and liked by everyone, loved by his family, has access to all the knowledge of the priesthood. He knows how to meditate. Yet he is not happy. The Priests have much profound knowledge but have not been successful in experiencing it. Neither has Siddhartha. Ritual is not enough for him.

Some Samanas, wandering ascetics, pass through Siddhartha's town. He announces to his friend Govinda that he will join them. When he asks his father's permission to go his father at first refuses. But Siddhartha remains standing all night until he concedes.

His father says, "You will go into the forest... and become a Samana. If you find bliss in the forest, come back and teach it to me...For me, however, it is time for me to go to the river and perform the first ablution."

As he leaves the town, "a crouching shadow emerged from the last hut and joined the pilgrim. It was Govinda."

Several themes have been introduced in the first chapter. The need for direct experience of the Atman, the shadow, the river, the father-son relationship.

Siddhartha finds that the ascetic life does not provide what he is looking for. "Siddhartha had one single goal--to become empty...to let the self die...When all the self was conquered and dead...then the last must awaken, the innermost of Being that is no longer self..."

"Siddhartha learned...many ways of losing the Self....He lost his Self a thousand times and for days on end he dwelt in non-being...the hour was inevitable when he would again find himself...and was again Self and Siddhartha."

Finally, he tells Govinda, "What I have learned so far from the Samanas, I could have learned more quickly and easily in every inn in a prostitute's quarter..." What he has been taught by the Samanas is but a temporary escape from the self, which he could have attained by falling asleep over a bowl of rice wine.

After three years with the Samanas they hear about the Buddha. Govinda suggests they go hear the Buddha. Siddhartha agrees to go but says "...I have become distrustful of teachings and learning...I have little faith in words that come to us from teachers...But..I am ready to hear that new teaching, although I believe...that we have already tasted the best fruit of it."

"...This fruit, for which we are already indebted to Gotama, consists of the fact that he has enticed us away from the Samanas..."

After they hear the Buddha preach, Govinda Joins the Buddha's community of followers but Siddhartha declines. After parting from Govinda, Siddhartha meets and speaks with the Buddha. "Yesterday, O Illustrious One, I had the pleasure of hearing your wonderful teachings...I, however, am continuing my pilgrimage anew."..."O Illustrious one, in one thing above all have I admired your teachings. Everything is completely clear and proved...Through a small gap there streams into the world of unity something strange, something new, that was not there before and that cannot be demonstrated and proved: that is your doctrine of raising above the world, of salvation..."

The Buddha replies "...You have found a flaw...The teaching which you have heard, however is not my opinion, and its goal is not to explain the world to those who are thirsty for knowledge...its goal is salvation from suffering. That is what Gotama teaches, nothing else."

But Siddhartha continues: "The teachings of the enlightened Buddha embrace much, they teach much...But there is one thing that this clear, worthy instruction does not contain; it does not contain the secret of what the Illustrious One himself experienced..."

"Half smiling, with imperturbable brightness and friendliness, the Buddha looked steadily at the stranger and dismissed him with hardly a visible gesture"

Another important theme is introduced here, the smile of self-realization.

But Siddhartha has a new insight himself. "The Buddha has robbed me...He has robbed me of my friend, who believed in me and who now believes in him; he was my shadow and is now Gotama's shadow. But he has given to me Siddhartha, myself."

As Siddhartha leaves Buddha's grove he has another insight. "He realized that something had left him, like the old skin that a snake sheds. Something was no longer in him, something that had accompanied him right through his youth and was part of him: This was the desire to have teachers and to listen to their teachings..."

Siddhartha realizes that by trying to destroy the Self he has lost himself on the way. "Siddhartha looked up and around him, a smile crept over his face...I will no longer try to escape from Siddhartha."

Again, the smile of self-realization. But then Siddhartha understands that he is truly alone, that he has no friends, no family, no caste to belong to. He walks forward alone.

As he journeys forward, Siddhartha enjoys the external beauty of the world and thinks, "He must gain experience himself. He had known for a long time that his self was Atman, of the same eternal nature as Brahman, but he had never really found his Self, because he had wanted to wrap it in a net of thoughts...Both thought and the senses were fine things, behind both of them lay hidden the last meaning..."

Siddhartha now crosses a river and engages the ferryman in conversation. "It is a beautiful river he said to his companion."

"'Yes,' said the ferryman, 'it is a very beautiful river. I love it above everything...One can learn much from a river.'"

When they reach the other side of the river Siddhartha tells the ferryman he can not pay him. But the ferryman says "...I did not expect any payment from you. You will give it to me some other time."
"'Do you think so?' asked Siddharthaq merrily."
"'Certainly. I have learned that from the river too; everything comes back. You, too, Samana, will come back."

Again we have the theme of the river. Crossing the river symbolizes Siddhartha's crossing from the spiritual to the material. There are lessons to be learned from the river (e.g., everything comes back) but Siddhartha is too involved in his pursuit of the senses to recognize them.

When he enters the next town he sees a woman, Kamala, who enchants him. He finds her and asks her to teach him the art of love. She refuses to do so until he has acquired satisfactory material wealth. She sends him to Kamaswami who accepts him as an apprentice. As he works for Kamaswami Siddhartha acquires the wealth needed to become Kamala's lover. Eventually they both realize they do not love each other.

One time after they have made love Kamala talks to him. "You are the best lover that I have had," she said thoughtfully..."And yet...You do not really love me--you love nobody. Is that not true?"
"Maybe," said Siddhartha wearily. "I am like you. You cannot love either, otherwise how could you practice love as an art? Perhaps people like us cannot love. Ordinary people can--that is their secret."

Slowly the soul-sickness of the rich crept over him. One night he dreamt about a rare songbird Kamala kept in a golden cage. The bird had died and he took it out of the cage and threw it away. When he woke, he realized that the bird was himself. He realized he had been playing a game called Samsara (worldly illusion). He left his possessions and the town and never returned.

When Kamala heard of Siddhartha's disappearance, "she went to the window where she kept a songbird in a golden cage. She opened the door of the cage, took the bird out and let it fly away...After a time, she found that she was with child as a result of her last meeting with Siddhartha."

Kamala symbolically releases Siddhartha by releasing the bird, but they are still tied together by the child they have between them.

Siddhartha returns to the river and contemplates suicide but is saved when the sound of "Om" stirs within his mind. Fatigued, he falls asleep but wakes feeling refreshed. He sees Govinda sitting in front of him. They talk about the transitory nature of existence then Govinda leaves. He realizes that he loves Govinda, he loves everything. "And it seemed to him that was just why he was previously so ill--because he could love nothing and nobody." Siddhartha feels like a new child again.

He realizes that he had to go into the material world until the priest and Samana in him were dead. He had to suffer despair so the pleasure-monger and man of property could die. Siddhartha is transitory, all forms are transitory. Here we have a Hindu/Buddhist concept (all forms are transitory) and two Christian concepts: you must become like a child again, and you must love.

And he learns a new secret from the river: "He saw that the water continually flowed and flowed and yet it was always there; it was always the same and yet every moment of it was new."

Siddhartha decides to stay by the river and asks the ferryman to take him on as an assistant. The ferryman agrees. "You are welcome, Siddhartha. My name is Vasudeva." (The God who dwells within all).

As Siddhartha stays with Vasudeva and learns from the river the smile of realization appears more frequently. Siddhartha asked Vasudeva, "have you also learned that secret from the river; that there is no such thing as time?"
"A bright smile spread over Vasudeva's face."
"'Yes, Siddhartha,' he said. 'Is this what you mean? That the river is everywhere at the same time, at the source and at the mouth, at the waterfall, at the ferry, at the current, in the ocean and in the mountains, everywhere, and that the present only exists for it, not the shadow of the past, nor the shadow of the future?'"
"'That is it,' said Siddhartha, "and when I learned that I reviewed my life and it was also a river, and Siddhartha the boy, Siddhartha the mature man and Siddhartha the old man, were only separated by shadows, not through reality. Siddhartha's previous lives were also not in the past, and his death and return to Brahma are not in the future. Nothing was, nothing will be, everything has reality and presence."

Then one day, news comes that Buddha is dying. Kamala and her son are journeying to see the Buddha but Kamala is bitten by a snake and dies. She leaves the boy with Siddhartha. Siddhartha learns to love his son but the boy then but runs away, just as Siddhartha left his father years ago.

One day when he is smarting from his loss, Siddhartha has a long talk with Visudeva who listens intently then takes him to the river.

"Siddhartha listened...He could no longer distinguish the different voices...They all belonged to each other...when he did not bind his soul to any one particular voice...but heard them all, the whole, the unity; then the great song of a thousand voices consisted of one word: OM--perfection."
"'Do you hear?' asked Vasudeva's glance once again."
"Vasudeva's smile was radiant..."

Then Vasudeva says, "I have waited for this hour, my friend. Now that it has arrived, let me go. I have been Vasudeva, the ferryman, for a long time. Now it is over. Farewell hut, farewell river, farewell Siddhartha."
"Siddhartha bowed low before the departing man."
"'I knew it,' he said softly. 'Are you going into the woods?'"
"'Yes, I am going into the woods; I am going into the unity of all things,' said Vasudeva, radiant"

Vasudeva is going into the woods to die and return to Brahman, the unity from whence he came.

Then, the shadow (Govinda) returns; Siddhartha speaks: "But this is one thought that has impressed me, Govinda. Wisdom is not communicable...Knowledge can be communicated, but not wisdom...Time is not real...And if time is not real, then the dividing line that seems to lie between this world and eternity, between good and evil, is also an illusion...During deep meditation it is possible to dispel time...and then everything is good, everything is perfect, everything is Brahman."

Siddhartha argues that that we must be able to love the world and leave it as it is, "to love it and be glad to belong to it." He further argues that "love is the most important thing in the world." Again, love, a Christian concept, but with a new twist.

AS Govinda is about to leave, Siddhartha tells him to "Kiss me on the forehead, Govinda." That simple act becomes the direct experience that produces enlightenment for Govinda. He experiences the unity of all. In a sense, Govinda, the shadow, is part of Siddhartha. Siddhartha's enlightenment is not complete until Govinda also experiences enlightenment.

Siddhartha combines ideas from Hinduism, Buddhism and Christianity. Achieving enlightenment through direct experience took a lifetime for Siddhartha. This book will have to be read and contemplated more than once before it can be fully appreciated.

If you would like a direct look into the river, I suggest Zen Flesh, Zen Bones. Worth reading.