Another rule question

gman4tide

All-SEC
Nov 21, 2005
1,907
446
107
55
Flint Creek
HS game this past w/end. Red has ball 4th and 6 from their 40. qb is sacked on play but is tackled at red's 34 by his face mask. Penalty is called. Ref's mark penalty from spot of foul 15 yards to 49 yard line? Should the markoff not have been made from the previous line of scrimmage?
 

TrampLineman

Hall of Fame
Jul 21, 2010
7,287
6
57
Alabama
IIRC a facemask is a spot foul, so why would it go from the previous line of scrimmage? I'm not a h.s. ref, but that's my thinking on the subject.
 

gman4tide

All-SEC
Nov 21, 2005
1,907
446
107
55
Flint Creek
I've gotten differing answers from officials. They've even used the phrase "to penalize the offending team the most". My thought is, what if it was 1st down and the qb had scrambled, tackled for a loss (w/ facemask) of 17 yards. Marked from the spot, the offense would be penalized 2 yards? I thought if facemask occured past los, mark from spot...if happened behind los, mark from los?
 

bamajake

1st Team
Sep 27, 2001
691
1
37
Tuscaloosa, Alabama, USA
The long and short of it is that they got it right as you described the play. In high school football, we use the "All But One Principle" in enforcing penalties. The All But One Principle says that, with the exception of penalties with special enforcement provisions, all penalties are enforced from the basic spot except for a foul by the offense that occurs behind the basic spot. The basic spot for a running play is the end of the run. Under the All But One Principle, a foul by the defense is therefore enforced from the end of the run unless there is a special enforcement for a particular foul. For a facemask, there is no special enforcement provision so it is penalized from the end of the run. In your case, that is the 34.

Not meaning any disrespect to your officiating friends, but there is nothing anywhere in the rule book or the case books that talks about penalizing the offending team the most. That is just another myth that has been floating around for years. If we followed that logic, you could have a run from Team A's 5 yard line that goes for a 95 yard touchdown and have a holding foul by Team A on Team B's 10 yard line. Does anyone think that should be penalized by bringing it back to Team A's 5 yard line and penalizing them half the distance to the 2 1/2 yard line? That would be what would penalize them the most. Of course we don't do that. We would penalize 10 yards from Team B's 10 yard line and A would have first down on the 20.
 

Jref

1st Team
Oct 3, 2001
551
0
0
Tuscaloosa, AL
I've gotten differing answers from officials. They've even used the phrase "to penalize the offending team the most". My thought is, what if it was 1st down and the qb had scrambled, tackled for a loss (w/ facemask) of 17 yards. Marked from the spot, the offense would be penalized 2 yards? I thought if facemask occured past los, mark from spot...if happened behind los, mark from los?
Think of it this way: If the defense had merely tackled the QB instead of grabbing his facemask, the offense would have lost 17 yards PLUS a down, instead of only two yards and REPEAT the down.

What's interesting is that if the QB had fumbled (or passed) after getting facemasked, the markoff WOULD be from the previous spot, since it would now be classified as a loose-ball play instead of a running play
 

VolFan1

All-American
Feb 6, 2009
2,660
0
0
Rocky Top
I am trying to think of an easy way to say this so it can be remembered.

-Most fouls by the defense that happen before a fumble behind the line of scrimmage or a forward pass will be enforced from the previous spot. These are called loose ball plays. Everything leading up to the loose ball is considered part of the loose ball play. Each play can only have one loose ball play associated with it but can have multiple loose balls. Confused yet? :biggrin2:

-Most fouls by the defense that do not involve a fumble behind the line of scrimmage or a forward pass will be enforced from the end of the run. These are considered running plays. Running plays can involve a forward pass or multiple backward passes :biggrin2:

-Most fouls by the offense will be enforced from the spot of the foul unless they involve a fumble behind the line of scrimmage, forward pass, or a foul at the snap. This is usually enforced using the all but one principle. :biggrin2:

Keep in mind that these are only guidelines and there are exceptions to nearly everything. The best thing to do if you are not sure is to come somewhere like this after the game and ask.
 

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