The Trayvon Martin Case

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Bamaro

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Not sharing the skittles. As Bamaro likes to point out if he had just offered GZ some skittles this whole thing could have been avoided.
Actually if GZ had just identified himself (neighborhood watch) it may have been avoided. We have no idea what threat TM perceived about an unknown person following him in the dark. Under that circumstance TM could be viewed as standing his ground.
 
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92tide

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Just making the point that laws aren't based on your life experience, and GZ should be thankful for that, as you apparently believe he should have just taken the beating and hoped TM decided not to kill him.

And as you refuse to answer the question as to how many times TM had to bash GZ's head against the ground before he should be able to defend himself, I can only assume you realize this was a 'justifiable homicide' and you're now arguing simply to be obtuse.
i am not trying to be obtuse.
 

crimsonaudio

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Okay, well it is kinda the reason there is a trail. Also, it means TM is more likely to be racist and probably used more force when he was banging GZ's head into the concrete.
Didn't you see those pictures from when he was 12? He was innocent looking! And who cares that he was posting pictures insinuating being a drug user / dealer, posted pictures of firearms, was under the influence of drugs the night he attacked GZ (as ALL the evidence supports)? He was innocent-looing five years before!
 

92tide

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Didn't you see those pictures from when he was 12? He was innocent looking! And who cares that he was posting pictures insinuating being a drug user / dealer, posted pictures of firearms, was under the influence of drugs the night he attacked GZ (as ALL the evidence supports)? He was innocent-looing five years before!
thc can stay in the system for a long period of time. had GZ seen pictures of him being a "thug"? i don't understand how that after the fact defining of TM says anything about the events that happened that night.
 

Bamaro

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Didn't you see those pictures from when he was 12? He was innocent looking! And who cares that he was posting pictures insinuating being a drug user / dealer, posted pictures of firearms, was under the influence of drugs the night he attacked GZ (as ALL the evidence supports)? He was innocent-looing five years before!
Actually, if you are familiar with the effects of pot you should realize that it makes a person less likely to initiate aggression.
 

MattinBama

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Actually if GZ had just identified himself (neighborhood watch) it may have been avoided. We have no idea what threat TM perceived about an unknown person following him in the dark. Under that circumstance TM could be viewed as standing his ground.
Actually if TM had just said "Hey unidentified guy following me, I'm heading home down here but in the mean time would you like a few delicious skittles while you identify yourself?" it may have been avoided. We have no idea how greedy TM was over sharing his skittles or how badly GZ would have wanted some skittles.

Under that circumstance TM could be viewed as Skittling His Ground.
 

BamaPokerplayer

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That is your only play at this point. You are trying to say that even after TM called GZ a Creepy A Cracker and then banged his head into the concrete several times that GZ should have taken the beating, prayed that he lived, and not shoot TM, so TM could give his side. A side that we would not even know about if the media had not painted GZ as a racist killer while making TM look like a choir boy.
 

crimsonaudio

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Actually, if you are familiar with the effects of pot you should realize that it makes a person less likely to initiate aggression.
I am all too familiar (from years ago, mind you) and I tend to agree - but it most definitely clouds judgement and makes pain more tolerable. (I've also know a couple of weirdos over the years on which it acted a bit like a stimulant, though there's no evidence that's the case with TM.)

The bigger issue is fighting the public perception portrayed by the media (and continued here) that TM was a 'good kid' and GZ was a racists cop-wannabe looking to shoot someone. That attitude seems to have permeated some here on the NS board as well, despite the fact that essentially every shred of evidence thus far backs up GZ's original story.

Sure, it would be great of TM hadn't died that night, but acting as if GZ bears the brunt of that responsibility while ignoring the evidence that TM initiated the attack is either biased or disingenuous. If you don't like the law, that's fine, we get it. But the reality, at least as far as we'll likely ever know it, is that TM was either frightened or figured he'd teach GZ a lesson (which seems more likely based on the evidence) and bit off more than he could chew.

It sucks that a kid died, but sometimes you play stupid games and you win stupid prizes. That doesn't mean GZ should pay the price for it.

All this stated as my mind is 99% made up GZ is innocent (obviously). We'll see what happens when the jury gets it, and they may well feel differently - if they do, I'll definitely take some time to pour over the evidence more to see what I missed.
 

Tide1986

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Actually, if you are familiar with the effects of pot you should realize that it makes a person less likely to initiate aggression.
http://www.drugbeat.org/Facts&Effects/marijuana.html

The EMOTIONAL effects include -

Depression


Anxiety


Confusion


Uncontrollable anger & aggression


75% of the people in our mental health system are there because of drug related psychosis. Young people are most at risk because they have not fully developed physically, emotionally or mentally.
http://adai.uw.edu/marijuana/factsheets/aggression.htm

In general, after using marijuana a person experiences a sedating effect, which makes the drug less likely to cause violence in users than other substances such as alcohol and stimulants (e.g., amphetamines and cocaine).

However, sometimes when marijuana is used it can cause fear, anxiety, panic or paranoia, which can result in an aggressive outburst. For most people, however, once the effects of the drug wear off, their behaviour gradually improves.
Research also indicates that people who are already violent in nature have a higher tendency to use marijuana and that the marijuana use does not typically overcome the violent nature.

I don't think your insinuation is completely accurate.
 
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Crimson1967

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I'd love to see posts in an alternate universe where a Hispanic kid walking through a black neighborhood gets killed by someone who thinks he looked suspicious and decided to follow him.
 

crimsonaudio

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I'd love to see posts in an alternate universe where a Hispanic kid walking through a black neighborhood gets killed by someone who thinks he looked suspicious and decided to follow him.
I'm guessing the implication is that we're all racists and would somehow argue against the overwhelming evidence in support of one minority over another - is that what you're suggesting?
 

bamacon

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Without proper training the odds of you actually harming someone with a gun are very low.
Without proper training any wipe that breaks into my house will likely die with multiple gunshot wounds. I agree about training but you can pick weapons for home defense that even with very limited training could be more than effective. It can mean the difference between life and death for a family.
 

snake plissken

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Actually if GZ had just identified himself (neighborhood watch) it may have been avoided. We have no idea what threat TM perceived about an unknown person following him in the dark. Under that circumstance TM could be viewed as standing his ground.
Apparently, he wasn't too threatened because he had a cell phone, but did not call the police. Any reasonable person who had never been seen before walking around in the dark in a gated community would expect to bring about some suspicion. Common sense would tell them that they might be question by someone for being there.
 
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