Question: Opinions on minimum wage
- Thread starter Bamaro
- Start date
With the advancements in AI and companies looking to implement more AI into how they do business. I would argue that the list of "useful education" will begin to shrink, if it hasn't already. I would say I have a "useful education" (Accounting & Finance Degree) and even still. There are things in the works looking to replace my position in the office. Automation is also making its way into the operating room as well with robotic surgery.
So here's a question. What happens when automation reaches a point where it only leaves a fraction of the need for humans in the work place and there's no spots available for people to go to? Is this the point where the government steps in and has to start supporting everyone whose been pushed out of the workforce?
We're gonna need something to change because there is a future with a lot of idle time, lot of mouths to feed, and not many jobs that derive the value required to feed them all.
Educated but unemployable people due to the lesser need for laborers in our not-so-distant automated future...I don't think education is the solution. I think the solution is base subsistence allowances, state subsidized basic healthcare, and government public works projects to keep people busy and out of trouble/drug use. The market is not going to solve this problem. It will only precipitate popular revolts, bloodshed, and civil wars. The market only cares about value and if you have no value then you get pushed out of the system. But they're still living and breathing...and probably peeved off. What do you think will happen when it reaches a critical mass?
Educated but unemployable people due to the lesser need for laborers in our not-so-distant automated future...I don't think education is the solution. I think the solution is base subsistence allowances, state subsidized basic healthcare, and government public works projects to keep people busy and out of trouble/drug use. The market is not going to solve this problem. It will only precipitate popular revolts, bloodshed, and civil wars. The market only cares about value and if you have no value then you get pushed out of the system. But they're still living and breathing...and probably peeved off. What do you think will happen when it reaches a critical mass?
If the government gets its money from taxing the income of those who work and automation continues to put people out of work. How does the government provide "allowances", healthcare and the like with the massive drop in tax revenue? If the answer is shifting the tax revenue loss to those who are still able to be employed. I think we know the end result of that.
Not to change the subject but this is related. If we see this as a major problem on the horizon, then shouldn't we begin looking at the amount of people we continue to let into our country? Because there's no denying that technology (i.e. artificial intelligence) is only going to have a greater presence in our workforce, putting A LOT of people out of work, shifting more of the burden on government to either completely provide or supplement their loss. We're seeing it now. If our economic system is heading to a point where it cannot support the citizens already here (which I'd argue we're already there), why does allowing more people in make any sense?
Last edited:
I think it is inevitable that all money consolidates among a few people. The question is whether they're able to let go of some of it to maintain the connection between their head and body.
We're already fighting a battle against neo-feudalism whether people realize it or not. It may require some socialism to avoid a regression back towards what capitalism saved us from before the rise of the mercantilist then laborer middle class.
We're already fighting a battle against neo-feudalism whether people realize it or not. It may require some socialism to avoid a regression back towards what capitalism saved us from before the rise of the mercantilist then laborer middle class.
Last edited:
I disagree - unless / until AI becomes self-reliant, the tech industry will continue to blossom. We'll always need people to design, build, and maintain the fast food kiosks that replace the teenager at McDonalds. And I don't see the skilled blue-collar jobs going away in our lifetime - we'll still need plumbers, HVAC specialists, electricians, mechanics, etc.
What we don't need is more people with MBAs or degrees in philosophy, gender studies, etc - if an education is not highly specialized in an area there will continue to be needs, it's pointless. But those with the foresight to get an education in those areas will be employable and will have work.
We've heard for decades (centuries?) that we're quickly approaching a time when there's no work as automation, industry, etc replace the worker, yet we don't see that at all, even today. We just have fewer people working in steel mills and more people sitting in front of computers.
Something to chew on: in the inevitable future where a few people would obviously have seized all the means and control of capital due to automation, wouldn't it kinda make more sense for a democratic political body to control the capital instead of a few corporations?
I don't know the answer, but the inevitability of human labor utility reaching such low levels that most people are valueless in a market system really makes you ponder how we're going to structure things 50, 100, 200 years from now.
I don't know the answer, but the inevitability of human labor utility reaching such low levels that most people are valueless in a market system really makes you ponder how we're going to structure things 50, 100, 200 years from now.
Yup. The has happened over and over throughout history - greed is a human trait and always will be.
I'm not sure what the answer is, but for the most part, people don't care. As long as they have beer in the fridge and big TV, most people are fine. If the general public ever gets to the point that they are not fine with wealth consolidation, only then will it change, and it will likely be bloody.
I get the feeling that hypothetically we're just replacing 100 steel mill workers with 5-10 engineers and 90 low-wage service sector jobs. We'll keep on making this trade as more engineering jobs become trivial to automation thus pushing more people to the service class.
I truly believe we're heading towards neo-feudalism where all but a few non-oligarchs are basically service support to the ultra-rich. I'm not saying we're gonna wake up tomorrow in this world but it is slipping up on us. Maybe not my child's fate but maybe my grandchildren's fate, ya know?
I agree but would like to add that no matter what you do you need to do it BETTER than anyone else in your area. Be more creative, less problematic etc.
It's bound to be cyclical. Our classes have to be reinvented every so often. There will always be a gentry class we just have to try to extract the money we desire from them. (The rich man will need services he doesn't know how to provide. ie when the toilet is clogged he'll pay whatever it takes to stop it from backing up inside his home.)
If it is cyclical then surely we're gonna have a collapse about hundred or so years from now that results in a dark age and consolidation of pseudo-monarchies and religion to maintain control over a poor, ignorant masses.
Possibly, but we have low unemployment and people's standard of living is higher than ever before - and not just here in the US. I think what we lose sight of is all the jobs that are created that we cannot even envision now as they spring up to solve problems we don't even know will exist yet.
My main point is that 50 years ago we heard computers and robots would increase unemployment, reduce the average number hours a person worked, etc but we've seen just the opposite - we just accomplish work more efficiently than before.
Possibly - if your vision of future employment is accurate, that's unavoidable. But as I said above, I think we'll see more and more people doing work we never could have dreamed of today.
There will be new jobs that arise from AI being more apart of the way we do business. However, what will the ratio of jobs lost due to AI to jobs created by AI? For every one job AI eliminates will a job be created due to AI? It will be interesting to see the net jobs gained or lost. I can see job markets being created as business' change how they do business. But as they continue to evolve are we going to see net losses of jobs with each business evolution? Certainly we won't see 1:1 ratios.
The only jobs will be opposition to Skynet and there won't be that many people to fill them so I wouldn't worry too much.
I would be worried that if there were no minimum wage some scumbag would take advantage and pay their employees next to nothing. It is the old saying "this is why we can't have nice things".
Latest threads
-
Chattanooga VW Plant Union Vote- Started by 92tide
- Replies: 0
-
-
-
Political Meme - Cartoon/Joke Thread...Part XX- Started by Bazza
- Replies: 9
-
US Army replacing 5.56mm rifle with a 6.8mm for infantry- Started by Tidewater
- Replies: 6
-